To Fly in Open or Not - Is Ganking/Griefing Really That Bad?

[Exigeous]

Summary for those that don't want to read the analysis below let me sum it up. With my experience, which from talking with many commanders seems somewhat average (play time, earnings, etc) here are the main 2 stats

0.05% of total play time I was being griefed or killed
4.75% of my total assets was spent on rebuys

----------------------------

I've been having some interesting conversations around piracy, specifically around gankers or griefers. I've had many pilots say they don't fly in open as they don't want to get killed or griefed, etc. This made me wonder how bad can it really be? I've gotten killed 5 times by gankers and I didn't care at all, but why? I don't have that much currency and haven't played the game all that long. So what is it that makes people play in solo/private? Being clear I strongly believe that everyone has the right to play how they want, in no way am I passing judgement or saying someone should play my or another other way. Who the hell would I be to dictate that??

So I did some math based on my play time and assets. I have no idea if I'm near average or not so if I'm majorly missing the mark let me know.

• I've played 400 hours
• I've been killed by commanders 5 times
• Each gank it takes 2.5 minutes for me to die
• Average rebuy cost is $4M
• I have $250M in the bank, assets of $450M and $1B spent on outfitting

NOTE: Let's rule out high risk cases like having a huge amount of trade data when returning to the bubble. I agree the risk is too high and pilots should go into solo/private for these rare times.

Okay, now let's look at some stats around the above numbers

• 12.5 minutes of death
• 24,000 minutes of play time
• 0.05% of my total play time I was getting killed and dying
• Those 5 deaths cost me $20M total
• That's 2% of the total I've spent on outfitting
• At the time of death it's 4.75% of my total assets

I realize these numbers might be overly simplistic and I may be way off the mark in terms of average play time and assets. If I am please post your numbers and do your own math. IMHO I'd gladly have 1.6% of my time be getting killed as the excitement and risk it adds FAR outweigh any negatives to me.

Finally know I have no agenda here other than sharing what I enjoy with others. I think open is awesome, there's very little in the game currently that makes me play solo/private. Doing skimmer missions where another commander will be there doing the same, sure, solo. Sightseeing with friends who insist on private, great. Any kind of non-wing play and I'm in open, every time.

Very curious to hear from the hardcore solo/private players as to why they don't fly open. Again being 100% clear I'm not judging anyone nor saying that my way is the "right" way. There is NO right way to play Elite and thank god for me no wrong (as I'd surely be getting it wrong!!)

~X


UPDATE: It was pointed out to me that I had a typo in my math which I've now corrected. I incorrectly stated that I had spent 125 minutes "dying" where that should have been 12.5 With that change the percentage of time played I was dying isn't 1.6% that I originally posted but rather 0.05%

 

[Luniticisi]

I don't play in Open for the simple reason that I don't enjoy PvP in pretty much any game .. I have owned a good few CoD games for example and I have never had the desire to hit that "Multi-player" button.

It has nothing to do with greifers/gankers or anything like that .. it's that I don't like that aspect of gaming.

 

[Exigeous]

I don't play in Open for the simple reason that I don't enjoy PvP in pretty much any game .. I have owned a good few CoD games for example and I have never had the desire to hit that "Multi-player" button.

It has nothing to do with greifers/gankers or anything like that .. it's that I don't like that aspect of gaming.

100% fair point, not that I want to argue as I can't at all. It's great that FDev created solo/private as I'm sure there are many other commanders that feel as you do.

A few follow up questions if I may (the psychology behind this fascinates me). Do you chat with other players, via say Discord/Teamspeak, while playing? Is there any feature that would get you to play open/multiplayer? What's your approximate play time?

 

[Luniticisi]

100% fair point, not that I want to argue as I can't at all. It's great that FDev created solo/private as I'm sure there are many other commanders that feel as you do.

A few follow up questions if I may (the psychology behind this fascinates me). Do you chat with other players, via say Discord/Teamspeak, while playing? Is there any feature that would get you to play open/multiplayer? What's your approximate play time?

I have only chatted with a couple of CMDRs (all but one being friends/family) - If someone wants to chat I'd be all up for it, but only using the in-game chat/voice coms (I do love the effect on the voice com!) - what would get me into Open (I play in Mobius most of the time) would be the original 'Transponder' idea FD had years back.. essentially you could turn it on (or off I can't remember which ) and it would mask your (and every other CMDRs) scanner signal to Filled in rather than hollow.. I wouldn't mind playing in open if I couldn't just be spotted instantly as a Player CMDR on someones scanner.

Edit: I think my in game time is around 4-5 weeks - been playing since premium beta

 

[Andovar]

It depends where you go.
Some CG's, known high income hot-spots, common/starter engineer bases, starter systems, etc. Those places you can expect higher odds of running into the gankers.
With the exception of the occassional CG, I usually avoid those areas, so usually don't run into other CMDR's, let alone any gankers.
I usually play in open, but like you mentioned, If I'm on my way back from some long range exploration mission, or have some other potential for a high loss, I'll switch to private.
Thankfully most of my uninitiated player encounters were with real pirates, not gankers. And it's been a while since I've been in a ship weak enough where I couldn't escape a solo ganker. Because of that I spend most time in open. Though I can certainly understand why some people don't want that kind of uninitiated conflict, so they stick to solo/private. Doesn't bother me.

 

[NeilF]

Ganking doesn't happen much generally, however at CGs or fresh new discoveries you can almost guarantee it.

That said, last weekend there were individuals at Shinrarta Dezhra interdicting any CMDR they could as soon at they arrived in the system, no doubt instantly attacking and destroying them for the glorious goal of giving themselves the satisfaction of another CMDR aggravated for no ingame reason... And about the same time there were also individuals at Jamesons memorial ramming other CMDRs coming in/out of the station... Again no doubt for some highly noble reason, which is in no way toxic to the community/game.

ps: These are probably the exact same people now desperately trying to badger FD to penalise combat logging so they can dish out even more grief even more effectively. God I hope FD ignores them.

 

[CmdrKull]

It will never be as bad as it is imagined to be. I've in fact never been ganked/griefed and only pirated once in the probably couple hundred hours in open. It's a big game after all. But people aren't chased off by the ganking, their chased off by the looming threat of the Gank. The idea that someone could, if they chose to, set them bad 5-10 hours of "work" is enough to push people away.

Also, 400 hours with 700m cash and assets is a lot of money in a short amount of time, a lot more than many have. Losing 5m for you is acceptable. An annoyance but not a death-blow in any way. When I lose my trader I'm out 15m for the ship and maybe another 10m for the cargo. For me, that's also an annoyance but also one I couldn't swallow over and over again. So given that I can count the interesting player interactions I've had on one thumb, why would I even risk that? Now imagine someone that has played less and struggled more. They lose 10m and they spend a couple days making it back, skating the edge of "just enough for a rebuy" that whole time. Well, that's why people don't want to play in open. If griefers couldn't operate in starter -proximate systems then maybe we'd get more people willing to see what it's like, but as it stands, even without any experiences, the trumpeted risk makes it a bad investment of their time.

 

[CMDR CPT. Boris]

I fly 99% in open since beta in november '14
around 500 / 600 hours
700m in assets
6M of rebuy for 14 deaths (one cost me 3M --> orca destroyed by station with wanted passagers)

I encounter maybe 1 or 2 gankers, always escaped

Most of the people i encounter are nice and friendly, i always pop a "Grettings Cmdr" in the chat and everything is fine.

So yes, open all the way

 

[WindWpn]

... scanner signal to Filled in rather than hollow.. I wouldn't mind playing in open if I couldn't just be spotted instantly as a Player CMDR on someones scanner.

that there is a great idea! Basically, why the hollows? If all blips on the scanner were solid, CMDRs would need to point/scan each one to find if NPC or CMDR. That would be a great change to simply obfuscate the space within a system. Perhaps it would not be much of a change either for FD?

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

These are probably the exact same people now desperately trying to badger FD to penalise combat logging so they can dish out even more grief even more effectively. God I hope FD ignores them.

Well said! I'd give Rep but it seems I have non left... Blame TJ.

 

[smiths121]

Interesting stats OP,

Just to be clear though - if you did not play in open - you would be 1.6% better off or have 2% more investments. If you spin this around and pretend you are a financial adviser, if this was real money you adviser would advise playing in a private group or solo - from a purely credit point of view.

If you had fun in open, that you could not get in private, Morbius or solo - then this expenditure is worth it. If you did not - then the expenditure is not worth it.

I expect worth it or not varies by player.

Simon

 

[Ian Skippy]

I've been having some interesting conversations around piracy, specifically around gankers or griefers. I've had many pilots say they don't fly in open as they don't want to get killed or griefed, etc. This made me wonder how bad can it really be? I've gotten killed 5 times by gankers and I didn't care at all, but why? I don't have that much currency and haven't played the game all that long. So what is it that makes people play in solo/private? Being clear I strongly believe that everyone has the right to play how they want, in no way am I passing judgement or saying someone should play my or another other way. Who the hell would I be to dictate that??

So I did some math based on my play time and assets. I have no idea if I'm near average or not so if I'm majorly missing the mark let me know.

• I've played 400 hours
• I've been killed by commanders 5 times
• Each gank it takes 2.5 minutes for me to die
• Average rebuy cost is $4M
• I have $250M in the bank, assets of $450M and $1B spent on outfitting

NOTE: Let's rule out high risk cases like having a huge amount of trade data when returning to the bubble. I agree the risk is too high and pilots should go into solo/private for these rare times.

Okay, now let's look at some stats around the above numbers

• 125 minutes of death
• 24,000 minutes of play time
• 1.66% of my total play time I was getting killed and dying
• Those 5 deaths cost me $20M total
• That's 2% of the total I've spent on outfitting
• At the time of death it's 1.6% of my cash on hand.

I realize these numbers might be overly simplistic and I may be way off the mark in terms of average play time and assets. If I am please post your numbers and do your own math. IMHO I'd gladly have 1.6% of my time be getting killed as the excitement and risk it adds FAR outweigh any negatives to me.

Finally know I have no agenda here other than sharing what I enjoy with others. I think open is awesome, there's very little in the game currently that makes me play solo/private. Doing skimmer missions where another commander will be there doing the same, sure, solo. Sightseeing with friends who insist on private, great. Any kind of non-wing play and I'm in open, every time.

Very curious to hear from the hardcore solo/private players as to why they don't fly open. Again being 100% clear I'm not judging anyone nor saying that my way is the "right" way. There is NO right way to play Elite and thank god for me no wrong (as I'd surely be getting it wrong!!)

~X

I've around 1500 hours or so, been killed by 'griefers' two or three times, total damage not even remotely a fraction of what I have. Its a non issue, perpetuated by disgruntled people who dont play Open anyway. "Dont go south of the track, you know the kind of people who live there!"

If anyone is genuinely interested: go to a system in the bubble where there is no CG or engineer base, get a Viper, T6 or some low-end ship and play. You'll find griefers arent an issue, and the game is more fun flying cheap ships.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

There isn't really any diffrence between open and Solo unless you go to a hotspot, and what you see there then depends on the Hotspot. For example: Wilson was a rather nice hotspot in Open for a while, no griefers or combat loggers anywhere

 

[Luniticisi]

If anyone is genuinely interested: go to a system in the bubble where there is no CG or engineer base, get a Viper, T6 or some low-end ship and play. You'll find griefers arent an issue, and the game is more fun flying cheap ships.

This is the issue I have with all these "Open" is safe comments .. It's safe as long as you avoid anywhere where something is actually happening.

Every time I have ventured into open I have been attacked* because I was in a "Named" system or visiting an engineer .. We are told you need to have an engineered ship to compete, but we can't go to an engineer as we might be attacked*

*For no other reason but LoLz

 

[Bomba Luigi]

This is the issue I have with all these "Open" is safe comments .. It's safe as long as you avoid anywhere where something is actually happening.

Every time I have ventured into open I have been attacked* because I was in a "Named" system or visiting an engineer .. We are told you need to have an engineered ship to compete, but we can't go to an engineer as we might be attacked*

*For no other reason but LoLz

It does depend on what you like to do you of course, if you playing around with the bgs in some backwater system you won't have issues with other cmdrs. If you like doing CGs it will be a very diffrent affair.

 

[verminstar]

Hardcore solo player here...that is what the op asked for.

I dont mind genuine role play pvp, like if a genuine pirate caught me out. Experience however has taught me that open is more akin to fight club...full of immature little gits fer want of a better word. I can afford the rebuys and the losses but simply cant be bothered anymore.

Im not hiding in solo...I play a very lone wolf style in all the games I play...pvp or otherwise. Im not anti social although solo does force that on ye...thats the price fer playing the game in peace, ergo I dont see this as a multiplayer game...to me, its a single player game with a toxic open mode and an even more toxic forum. This being the only way I can socially interact with other players...but its still preferable to running the gauntlet in open.

Chances are Ill stay in solo until FD fix their game...that is non negotiable...I learned the hardest possible way not to trust anyone in this game...on day 2 of being here. Griefed...and yes I do know the difference. Open has never once been fun or profitable and everything I wanna do can be accessed from solo mode...apart from being sociable. I love the game more than the players and with no way of really getting to know others here, thats not likely to change anytime soon.

 

[Luniticisi]

It does depend on what you like to do you of course, if you playing around with the bgs in some backwater system you won't have issues with other cmdrs. If you like doing CGs it will be a very different affair.

Of course, but saying that Open is safe ...except for X Y and Z is like saying don't worry about man eating sharks you'll be fine .. as long as you're in a (bigger) boat !

 

[Iskariot]

To Fly in Open or Not - Is Ganking/Griefing Really That Bad?

No it is not.

I have been playing in Open for a long time. I have been attacked 3 or 4 times if I remember correctly (I never attack fellow cmdrs myself).

I considered none of the attacks to be griefing really.
Although some might disagree.
They were just attacks by PvP minded people I guess.
It is true they only attacked me when they were in superior ships.
But that might have been coincidental, or just simply be considered the smart thing to do.

I would advise to be smart about it. If you play a lot in busy core systems, or areas like Sothis (pre-nerf) or in areas with CG's you are more likely to encounter pvp-ers.

The only reason I stopped playing in Open is that I do not want to be forced into an engineering arms race and I hate the thought of losing a fight simply because I do not have engineered PvP weaponry and defenses.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Of course, but saying that Open is safe ...except for X Y and Z is like saying don't worry about man eating sharks you'll be fine .. as long as you're in a (bigger) boat !

Well, nothing is 100% safe ^^

 

[Luniticisi]

Well, nothing is 100% safe ^^

very true .. but it does make me laugh that almost all of the posts that say 'Open' is fine .. always have the proviso of "as long as you avoid busy areas"