To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[Stealthie]

I'd say it's the other way arond. The problem is that PvP can be too easy.

Most people aren't bothered when two CMDRs with PvP META builds are having a duel. They are bothered when they don't survive longer than 10 seconds because they actually wanted to fly a trade ship instead of a PvP META build.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

Sure, PvP can be too easy, for the aggressor, if they're attacking soft targets.

Again, though, I'm not sure what your point is.
If you're trying to suggest that it's a player's own fault if they get destroyed easily because they should have built a PvP capable ship, that's a tired old argument and I'm surprised you'd attempt to make it.

Also, it seems like if PvE was more challenging, it'd compel players to build more robust ships, which'd also help them in PvP.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Yes, sure there are and the open mode is made for these people, then I ask the same question. Why those choosed to play the game peacefully so shameful and must be forced to open?

Play the game however you want. Personally I have no argument with whatever mode someone plays in if that's what they enjoy. I don't see the point of being in open if you don't want to risk PvP. If anything it makes it worse for the players who do enjoy being there.

Open as it is for people who want to run the risk of combat with other players. Remove that and you might as well be in the Mobius PG. System chat also still allows you to talk to players across all modes if open isn't for you, assuming you can stand to read it sometimes.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Simply 'selling the data' isn't always the goal though - it's also who you sell it to. Yes, you can sell it on the edge of the bubble, away from all people, but the benefits (besides money) to the player are limited to say the least.

I don't like carriers and will never own one. Galactic litter. And I hate the concept of upkeep with a hot burning passion. But that's another thread.

Indeed, when I sell explo-data it's usually to gain rep rather than cash, though that indicates some interest in Bubble. Having said that I find switching to a less vulnerable ship parked in a quiet system helps.
Who said you had to own the carrier personally?

 

[Juniper]

Open as it is for people who want to run the risk of combat with other players. Remove that and you might as well be in the Mobius PG.

Yeah, about that...

Groups have a maximum size. That's why there's several Mobius groups, because (it may shock you to know) quite a lot of players want an Open PVE type mode. However, you can only encounter players in your current Mobius group, and it's a big galaxy...

I think the game would be improved markedly if Open were actually available to everyone, whether they want to PVP or not. Because it's not a PVP consent, it's an interaction consent.

 

[Eymerich]

I'm under the impression that a lot of people, including myself, prefer to play Solo mode all the time, not because we don't want to play with others, but simply because we don't want to PVP others.

For comparison, let me talk to you about of one of the worst launches in recent years, Fallout 76, which to the surprise of some has actually redeemed itself (at least to some extent), but owes it survival to its community, which stood during awful first year fo the game, but also a community that confused Bethesda because the devs were convinced their players wanted more PVP... and they were proven wrong, best depicted through many of the ironic headlines that gaming journalism used to deliver the "shocking" revelation:

Bethesda Didn’t Get Why ‘Fallout 76’ Players Wouldn’t Kill Each Other​

Bethesda Didn’t Get Why ‘Fallout 76’ Players Wouldn’t Kill Each Other

Bethesda was surprised to learn that Fallout 76 players didn't care much for PvP, and how the game has evolved reflects that.

www.forbes.com

Bethesda Apparently Shocked People Didn't Like PvP in 'Fallout 76'​

Bethesda Apparently Shocked People Didn't Like PvP in 'Fallout 76'

"It's a smaller percentage of our player base than we thought."

www.gamingbible.co.uk

Bethesda Surprised By How Many Fallout 76 Players Didn't Want to PvP​

Bethesda Surprised By How Many Fallout 76 Players Didn't Want to PvP

Bethesda VP Pete Hines reveals that the company was surprised to find that players preferred to avoid PvP in Fallout 76 in favor of PvE.

gamerant.com

Bethesda was surprised how uninterested players were in Fallout 76's PvP​

Bethesda was surprised how uninterested players were in Fallout 76's PvP

We just want to be friends.

www.pcgamer.com

Bethesda got confused that Fallout 76 players don’t murder each other​

Why is everyone being so nice?

Bethesda got confused that Fallout 76 players don't murder each other

When Bethesda was designing Fallout 76, it expected players to murder each other, but it turns out they'd rather just work together.

www.pcinvasion.com

Don't misunderstand: Fallout 76 do had (still has to a small degree) griefers and gankers, but the vast majority of players simply preferred not to engage in PVP.

Keeping things short, today many of the ways to engage into PVP have been disabled, pacifist mode is a menu option that makes it almost impossible to engage in PVP, and while the game's reputation will forever be tarnished by its launch, its actually in a better than many people expected (which can't be said for games like EA's Anthem, which already threw the towel and cancelled further development). It still is no substitute for a proper Fallout 5, but as a casual time waster with a Fallout theme: it's passable.

Back to Elite Dangerous, I think a lot more people would like to try playing in Open Play with random strangers in Elite if they had the choice to opt out from PVP, like having an aforementioned pacifist mode that disabled PVP interactions.

But that's just my impression, and I would like to hear what other thinks on this matter:

Do you think that Open Play would be negatively affected if PVP could be disabled?

Do you think Elite could benefit from having more people try to play & cooperate with others in Open Play?

It would.

I avoid open like plaugue just because i am not interested in pvp.

Anything I can get I get it in Pve: but i wouldn't mind cooperate with other players. I am in mobius too but it's been a lot since the last log in

 

[babelfisch]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

Sure, PvP can be too easy, for the aggressor, if they're attacking soft targets.

Yes, that's what I am saying. If attacking soft targets wouldn't be as easy people would be less 'scared' of playing in Open.

Again, though, I'm not sure what your point is.
If you're trying to suggest that it's a player's own fault if they get destroyed easily because they should have built a PvP capable ship, that's a tired old argument and I'm surprised you'd attempt to make it.

No, my point is quite the opposite. PvP builds are too powerful. We already had that problem in 2014/2015 and it became a hundred times worse with all the additional modules and engineers.

Also, it seems like if PvE was more challenging, it'd compel players to build more robust ships, which'd also help them in PvP.

The major problem with that is that you can't play the game in a PvP ship.

 

[Juniper]

The major problem with that is that you can't play the game in a PvP ship.

Yep.

If you're in a PVP build (which also means you've done the arms race of grinding to unlock all the engineers, mats, etc), you'll get nowhere as a trader or as an explorer. If the latter two are your main activities / interest in the game, chances are you've not done much of the engineer grind because it's pointless. It's not an interesting enough activity in and of itself.

For me as an explorer, I get G5 FSD, and that's it. Engineering done.

This is why the ganker's argument of "Just fly a different ship" is meaningless.

 

[CMDR-NOBODY]

....
Also, it seems like if PvE was more challenging, it'd compel players to build more robust ships, which'd also help them in PvP.

This point had lead to another problem ED currently facing - the engineering grind, the more robust ships here means all G5 engineered ships.

Without those you referring as too easy PVEs, how long one should expected to unlock all those engineers and gather the materials needed to build your robust PVP ships?

 

[Sellias]

Honestly, I think part of the problem is (unpopular opinion inbound) that PvE can be too easy.
Once you've got your engineering sorted, any encounter with an NPC ship is little more than a minor inconvenience.

Said it before but it'd be interesting to see what'd happen if FDev could, somehow, analyse the level of skill, and activities, of players and then fill the galaxy with NPCs that reflect those traits.
They could look at things like the combat ranks of players, the frequency that players indulge in different activities, the ships players fly and their loadouts and then apply those characteristics to NPCs as well.

Point being, however, that if PvE provided a substantial challenge, using similar ships, weapons and modules to what players use, it wouldn't be such a huge paradigm-shift for a player to choose to fly in Open.

It's fairly likely this would be a bit of a train-wreck, initially, so I'd like to see FDev implement some kind of permanent beta-server where they could test stuff out on an ongoing basis.

Also, I'm pretty sure that an average, non-violent, lawful, player might be concerned about the idea of NPCs reflecting the behaviour of players.
After all, if you're staying out of Open because you're concerned about PvP, you probably won't want NPCs starting to act like the players you're trying to avoid.
That being the case, I'd also want to see C&P properly implemented.

Let's face it, we live in a galaxy where parking offences and loitering are punishable by death.
It seems a little paradoxical that a mass-murderer can cruise around a system unhindered, without fear of consequences.
My idea of meaningful C&P would be a situation where outlaws would be terrified of setting foot in a high-security system while lawful players would be similarly terrified of setting foot in an anarchy.

So, in a nutshell, PvE needs to be harder and C&P needs to be (MUCH) more robust in order to reduce the schism between PvE and PvP.

Totally agree on this, the difficulty curve is so completely out wack in Elite, visualising it already makes my hair stand up straight.

And adding actually challenging pve might also reduce the "cause I'm bored" type of ganks.

Also with a clear distinction between danger in anarchy and high sec it might actually open to cooperative play. I would love to be hired to escort traders or explorers through dangerous areas

 

[Rebel Yell]

might be a completely alien concept to you: But there are players agreeing on playing open only when doing powerplay.

KUMO is 100% open play even if you're going to the bathroom for a pee.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Yeah, about that...

Groups have a maximum size. That's why there's several Mobius groups, because (it may shock you to know) quite a lot of players want an Open PVE type mode. However, you can only encounter players in your current Mobius group, and it's a big galaxy...

I think the game would be improved markedly if Open were actually available to everyone, whether they want to PVP or not. Because it's not a PVP consent, it's an interaction consent.

Open PvE mode may be impossible. The modes are identical in all ways apart from instancing rules (solo- none, PG- selected players only, open- everyone). Adding code that stops players affecting each other is something on top of that.

Perhaps that's why after 7 years it's never happened, despite how many want it.

Open is also a big galaxy and I haven't been attacked in months. Unless you're going to high traffic systems (like I was last time) you can consider yourself unlucky to be attacked in the first place. The question is though, what would you do that you can't do already?

 

[CMDR-NOBODY]

However, to be fair, ED is already quite forgiving for ship lost comparing to EVEO. I still remember how mad I gone when I lost my first exhumer about 10yrs ago when my guild mate(squadron for ED, corporate for EVEO) declared war to another guild without letting me know....and I happened mining in the hostile system.

 

[Juniper]

Open PvE mode may be impossible. The modes are identical in all ways apart from instancing rules (solo- none, PG- selected players only, open- everyone). Adding code that stops players affecting each other is something on top of that.

"Impossible" is not a word that is recognised by a computer program. It's a matter of desire, want and ingenuity. Adding a PvP flag is a game rule - it wouldn't be another 'mode' per-se. As I've stated, we already have a flag for reporting crimes against us (or not). So this is simply another level to that.

Perhaps that's why after 7 years it's never happened, despite how many want it.

That's one theory. Given the game is developed by Frontier, I have another.

The question is though, what would you do that you can't do already?

Talk to people! Cooperate with them in missions, or exploration. Or simply to make the galaxy feel 'alive' - since NPCs are mindless drones that impact nothing & simply there as background.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Yep.

If you're in a PVP build (which also means you've done the arms race of grinding to unlock all the engineers, mats, etc), you'll get nowhere as a trader or as an explorer. If the latter two are your main activities / interest in the game, chances are you've not done much of the engineer grind because it's pointless. It's not an interesting enough activity in and of itself.

For me as an explorer, I get G5 FSD, and that's it. Engineering done.

This is why the ganker's argument of "Just fly a different ship" is meaningless.

Erm... I've unlocked most of the engineers (those in the Bubble apart from Lori Jamieson). If you are away from the Bubble for long periods yes it would be difficult (though AFAIK that's what the Colonia engineers were for).

 

[babelfisch]

Yep.

If you're in a PVP build (which also means you've done the arms race of grinding to unlock all the engineers, mats, etc), you'll get nowhere as a trader or as an explorer. If the latter two are your main activities / interest in the game, chances are you've not done much of the engineer grind because it's pointless. It's not an interesting enough activity in and of itself.

For me as an explorer, I get G5 FSD, and that's it. Engineering done.

This is why the ganker's argument of "Just fly a different ship" is meaningless.

Its not just that, even if you fully engineer your ship you don't have a chance. A miner needs mining lasers, refinery, limpets, cargo racks... A PvPer can fill all the slots with weapons, MRPs, HRPs, SCBs, etc...

 

[Juniper]

Its not just that, even if you fully engineer your ship you don't have a chance. A miner needs mining lasers, refinery, limpets, cargo racks... A PvPer can fill all the slots with weapons, MRPs, HRPs, SCBs, etc...

Which they then use to blow up said miner who never stood a chance & pat themselves on the back for doing so.

And then they wonder why folk are reluctant to play in Open.

 

[Brrokk]

Open PvE mode may be impossible. The modes are identical in all ways apart from instancing rules (solo- none, PG- selected players only, open- everyone). Adding code that stops players affecting each other is something on top of that.

Perhaps that's why after 7 years it's never happened, despite how many want it.

Open is also a big galaxy and I haven't been attacked in months. Unless you're going to high traffic systems (like I was last time) you can consider yourself unlucky to be attacked in the first place. The question is though, what would you do that you can't do already?

It should be simple. Damage is already tagged according to its source; that's how the game hands out combat bonds, bounties and notoriety to deserving players. Just set damage to zero (or almost zero) when source=player and target=PvE player.

I say "should" only because we see from regressing bugs etc. that the ED code is a shambles.

I'd prefer a separate mode really though; less immersion-breaking for PvP players.

If ED continues I believe that one of these things will happen. It's the route all PvP-enabled games take.

 

[Krash]

I want a PvP safe mode that makes me indestructible, but I can attack and damage anyone who does not have it enabled.

 

[babelfisch]

I want a PvP safe mode that makes me indestructible, but I can attack and damage anyone who does not have it enabled.

Try a 13000mj Corvette against a T6 and you will have that mode.

 

[Sellias]

I'd prefer a separate mode really though; less immersion-breaking for PvP players.

Same here, if something was to be implemented I would propose a completely separate mode. Magic invulnerable space ships are the last thing we need.

Pvp flags are just another quagmire, just look at New World.

Also as funny as salt can be I can do without the death wishes to people and their families in chat because some pixels went boom.