Plus I allready have get out of jail free card. I do have and use autodocker.
To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?
- Thread starter AMX-008 GaZowmn
- Start date
You brought up a real life example about cars.
Well, in real life (at least here in Europe) there are 2 completely different kind of car insurances.
The first one is a classic insurance which will pay if your car suffers damage for whatever reason, including your own mistake.
The second one is the public liability insurance (which is compulsory by law in many countries, although not in the UK afaik). This will only cover the damage you did to other people's cars (as long as the accident was your fault).
Any kind of analogy of this second kind of insurance is completely missing in Elite: Dangerous. What we have ingame is similar to the first one (excepting that you don't need to pay a monthly/yearly fee, it's basically free probably for gameplay reasons, but other than that it works pretty much the same way as in real life, you pay a humble 5% contribution, the remaining 95% is on the insurance company).
As for the compensation you need to pay for any property damage you did (on top of your punishment, if you get caught), that also (kind of) exists in the game, it's depicted by the bounty system. You need to 'do your time': you'll get Braziled (transported to a detention facility) and on top of the 5% contribution you need to pay to get back your ship (like everyone else) you'll also need to pay your bounties and fines (basically as a compensation for the damage you did). True, the amount of credits you need to pay is not extremely large most of the time (again for gameplay reasons), and it's going to be the bank who will get all the money and you won't need to pay the 'victims' compensation for the 5% contribution they had to pay at the rebuy screen, but the Pilots' Federation is more of a shady elitist clique and not a charitable organization after all.
You can be thankful that they won't revoke your membership for being 'unworthy' if you keep losing your ships to other CMDRs.
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So how efffective would then then be? how big dent woudl this do to a griefer, that mostly targets new players, or players near engineers etc? it will not really work, and by the evidencve of suicidiede winders near station, we know griefers will figure out how to get you to destroy more costly ships...
trying to punish players with ingame cause and effects is ineffective. just look at C&P 2.0, how much did that stop griefers? they went mad for how long 1-2 weeks? untill they realised how pathetic it turned out to be, but how long did regular players complain about it? months... and so would this be...
that is no guarantee, as the autodocoker can't prevent your ship from being pushed above the limit... and now it is speeding... you know the rulse NO speeding.
No, that's not.
Liability insurances only pay for the damage you did to other people's vehicles but it won't pay you anything if you do damage to your own car (by driving into a wall, for example, or crashing into other people's vehicles because of your own mistake).
That's covered by a whole different insurance contract (not even the insurace companies need to be the same).
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pilots federeration is probably already taking a hidden amount of all the transactions we do, that the sender or reciever has to pay on the transaction, and it is not shown to us as that is a mandatory cost and part of of hiring CMDRs from Pilots Federation. so our fancy insurance is paid by everyone else.. that would also explain why Pilots Federation do not care about our activities.. the credits are rolling in faster than we loose our ships..... so why complicate things, and also, we cannot get out of our contract with Pilots Federation, to be on our "own"...You brought up a real life example about cars.
Well, in real life (at least here in Europe) there are 2 completely different kind of car insurances.
The first one is a classic insurance which will pay if your car suffer damage for whatever reason, including your own mistake.
The second one is the public liability insurance (which is compulsory by law in many countries, although not in the UK afaik). This will only cover the damage you did to other people's cars (as long as the accident was your fault).
Any kind of analogy of this second kind of insurance is completely missing in Elite: Dangerous. What we have ingame is similar to the first one (excepting that you don't need to pay a monthly/yearly fee, it's basically free probably for gameplay reasons, but other than that it works pretty much the same way as in real life, you pay a humble 5% contribution, the remaining 95% is on the insurance company).
As for the compensation you need to pay for any property damage you did (on top of your punishment, if you get caught), that also (kind of) exists in the game, it's depicted by the bounty system. You need to 'do your time': you'll get Braziled (transported to a detention facility) and on top of the 5% contribution you need to pay to get back your ship (like everyone else) you'll also need to pay your bounties and fines (basically as a compensation for the damage you did). True, the amount of credits you need to pay is not extremely large most of the time (again for gameplay reasons), and it's going to be the bank who will get all the money and you won't need to pay the 'victims' compensation for the 5% contribution they had to pay at the rebuy screen, but the Pilots' Federation is more of a shady elitist clique and not a charitable organization after all.
You can be thankful that they won't revoke your membership for being 'unworthy' if you keep losing your ships to other CMDRs.
Well yes shooting sideys would be cheap. Shooting cobra's would cheapish. But upper you go on the list less cheap it gets. That T9 is already pretty hefty. Likewise explorer's Anaconda.
I misread your initial statement. My mistake.
Anyway, it would make complete sense for the Pilots Federation, the superpowers, or individual faction jurisdictions, to require comprehensive insurance coverage to operate in their space.
Who is trying to punish players?
In game cause and effect is there to apply constraints to in-game, in-character, actions.
C&P 2.0 wasn't intended to stop 'griefing', it was intended to limit the rate at which negative BGS influence could be leveraged.
If they wanted to stop greifing, they'd make greifing against the rules, and then enforce those rules by banning accounts.
Even less plausible than the current system where murder is a slap on the wrist.
Basically making the security rating of a system mean something. And the game could buff the security of a system if Alliance, Federation or Empire would start to deploy Secuirity Mega ships to systems.
This also would require some sort of persistent NPC's, meaning that get enough wanted, there would be an even increasing ATR wing standing by, to learn about where you are, and they will chase you until you are either dead, or out of their jurisdiction.
And this system, does nto even have to be about griefers in the first hand. it could be a generic system for everyone. giving players a new challenge to actually try to a be a criminal mastermind, and do criminal stuff, and the game can react by increasing security in popular systems where we have a increase of crimes... giving us a feedback of players do, game react.
We cannot realistically prevent griefing, because the only real way to fix griefing is to for everyone to play in solo, then we have NO griefing... so, that is not a realistic solution either...
You brought up a real life example about cars.
Well, in real life (at least here in Europe) there are 2 completely different kind of car insurances.
The first one is a classic insurance which will pay if your car suffers damage for whatever reason, including your own mistake.
The second one is the public liability insurance (which is compulsory by law in many countries, although not in the UK afaik). This will only cover the damage you did to other people's cars (as long as the accident was your fault).
Any kind of analogy of this second kind of insurance is completely missing in Elite: Dangerous. What we have ingame is similar to the first one (excepting that you don't need to pay a monthly/yearly fee, it's basically free probably for gameplay reasons, but other than that it works pretty much the same way as in real life, you pay a humble 5% contribution, the remaining 95% is on the insurance company).
As for the compensation you need to pay for any property damage you did (on top of your punishment, if you get caught), that also (kind of) exists in the game, it's depicted by the bounty system. You need to 'do your time': you'll get Braziled (transported to a detention facility) and on top of the 5% contribution you need to pay to get back your ship (like everyone else) you'll also need to pay your bounties and fines (basically as a compensation for the damage you did). True, the amount of credits you need to pay is not extremely large most of the time (again for gameplay reasons), and it's going to be the bank who will get all the money and you won't need to pay the 'victims' compensation for the 5% contribution they had to pay at the rebuy screen, but the Pilots' Federation is more of a shady elitist clique and not a charitable organization after all.
You can be thankful that they won't revoke your membership for being 'unworthy' if you keep losing your ships to other CMDRs.
That public liability insurance can bite one, if you do intentional damage, well your insurer pays your victim, but very surely tries to get their money back from you. (Likewise that classic insurance usually does not pay intentional damages done by customer, like you yourself setting your car on fire...).
Anyways those companies do try to get whatever they paid back in case of intentional damage from whoever is the culprit.
and how much have this stopped negative BGS influence? I could still nuke the controlling power, by just going murdehobo on NPC's in a system... sure, I was wanted, and if I died I was sent to a detention centre, so I fitted either a small enough extra fuel tank to allow me to jump back, or I added a fuel scoop, and I lost what, 5 minutes to get back to murder NPC's again... so no did not work for that either..
but it did hurt regular players for a long time, and it still does. becuase most players are not activelly choosing to be murderhobos etc, they are playing to follow the law, and learn the hard way how heavy handed C&P 2.0 are for what most reasonably players would call small infractions... even the UI did not make to much distinction between paying of fines, or paying off your bvounty, which sent you on a free trip to a detention centre.... they made a small misstake, tried to do good, and still got punished for it...
In the UK the terms are '3rd party fire & theft' and 'fully comprehensive'.You brought up a real life example about cars.
Well, in real life (at least here in Europe) there are 2 completely different kind of car insurances.
The first one is a classic insurance which will pay if your car suffers damage for whatever reason, including your own mistake.
The second one is the public liability insurance (which is compulsory by law in many countries, although not in the UK afaik). This will only cover the damage you did to other people's cars (as long as the accident was your fault).
Any kind of analogy of this second kind of insurance is completely missing in Elite: Dangerous. What we have ingame is similar to the first one (excepting that you don't need to pay a monthly/yearly fee, it's basically free probably for gameplay reasons, but other than that it works pretty much the same way as in real life, you pay a humble 5% contribution, the remaining 95% is on the insurance company).
As for the compensation you need to pay for any property damage you did (on top of your punishment, if you get caught), that also (kind of) exists in the game, it's depicted by the bounty system. You need to 'do your time': you'll get Braziled (transported to a detention facility) and on top of the 5% contribution you need to pay to get back your ship (like everyone else) you'll also need to pay your bounties and fines (basically as a compensation for the damage you did). True, the amount of credits you need to pay is not extremely large most of the time (again for gameplay reasons), and it's going to be the bank who will get all the money and you won't need to pay the 'victims' compensation for the 5% contribution they had to pay at the rebuy screen, but the Pilots' Federation is more of a shady elitist clique and not a charitable organization after all.
You can be thankful that they won't revoke your membership for being 'unworthy' if you keep losing your ships to other CMDRs.
Either way as proposed it would hit new players and legit PVPers harder than the problem individuals.
I just don't see insurance as being an effective tool for the problem.
I cannot really blame you for that - since English is obviously not my first language, it's not always easy to talk about concepts outside my core English vocabulary.
To be honest I don't envy native English speakers in the least for having to try and understand so many foreigners.
Yeah probably - luckily we still don't have any kind of public liability insurance in this game.
I find that it significantly reduces the rate at which I can increment murders within a system.
Before "C&P 2.0", it was possible for me to knock out 100+ system authority vessels in a few hour session, without even having to leave the instance. They would just keep dropping in and I'd keep mowing them down, and the faction they were part of would take an influence hit for every kill, without a cap. I could do this two or three times a day until I triggered the conflict I was going for, or buried a faction at the bottom of the stack.
Doing the same thing now quickly pegs one at maximum notoriety and results in ATR dropping in after every few kills. ATR can't shoot down even my CMDR's throw away ships, but they make it near impossible to continue work without reinstancing, and then they pop in again shortly after.
I'd guess it cut productivity for this sort of influence by at least 70-80%.
I never claimed the system was any good, just that it seems to have addressed the enormous rate at which murder could push negative influence.
Simple: You pay what you break, if done in criminal purposes. And in places where there is law.
And you already (kind of) need to do that in this game, you'll need to pay off your bounties after all. It's only the amount of credits you need to pay what's not very realistic.
But neither is the insurance system. Real life insurance companies damn sure won't pay you a penny if you don't pay them the required fee for the sustainment implementation of the insurance relationship.
At least not in places where there is law.
And hits BGS players harder than gankers
Hence the need for a 'simulator' for consensual PvP that involved anything other than vessels cheap enough to be disposable.
Assuming the cost and penalties of insurance were meaningful, it would be an effective tool for reducing the implausibility of the setting, which is the only problem I perceive.
Obviously, it would cause problems for those that depend on ships being essentially free. Some of these could be solved pretty easily, others wouldn't need to be.
Currently, I just throw a way the wanted ship when the bounty value becomes burdensome.
But neither is the insurance system. Real life insurance companies damn sure won't pay you a penny if you don't pay them the required fee for the sustainment implementation of the insurance relationship.
At least not in places where there is law.
And they shouldn't here either. It's supposed to be a cutthroat galaxy after all...and going broke should be a real possibility for a CMDR that is ignorant or reckless, again IMO.
The thousands of NPC murders and hundreds of trillions of credits of property damage my CMDR has racked up in pursuit of political goals should be considered a much more serious problem by the powers that be in the setting than what most gankers are doing.
Again, if some player is doing something that is actually against some rule, C&P shouldn't have anything to do with it. Their account should just vanish once their offenses are reasonably confirmed. The C&P and insurance and economy, etc, is all there to give the setting a semblance of verisimilitude.
Real world companies also most likely shirk payment if you do not pay for special coverage and go for example boating at coast of Somalia, and something bad happens.And you already (kind of) need to do that in this game, you'll need to pay off your bounties after all. It's only the amount of credits you need to pay what's not very realistic.
But neither is the insurance system. Real life insurance companies damn sure won't pay you a penny if you don't pay them the required fee for the sustainment implementation of the insurance relationship.
At least not in places where there is law.