Today is a sad day

[jabokai]

'But blaze your own trail!' you'll say, and I'll respond with, I don't see a single statement where that blaze your own trail ALSO says change how the game works to do so. You are meant to play the game however you want WITHIN the constraints of how the game works. I know, such a messed up concept right?

No, not a messed up concept - great concept, and how it was until a silly technical limit was hit. Open players played in open, Mobius players played in Mobius - all was well. Now, due to lack of foresight/technical ability on FD's part that nice concept has failed.

Maybe you didn't notice that this thread was about the splitting of Mobius group, not the PvP (losers) infiltration?

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Yep, all the guys in prison for murder that only killed one other person should be let out asap, it's only the serial killers that are evil and twisted... right?

Good thing this is just a game, right?

Nobody dies. Nobody is harmed. Only pixels are re-shaped and coated with pretty colors. Then we re-spawn and play again. Ahh. The joys of cops n' robbers in a digital fantasy universe.

 

[Kristov]

No it's not. It's completely different. Are you high on crack?

no one in the Mobius group is seeking counselling or taking drugs (they weren't already taking) because the group needs to split. You're analogy is exaggerated to the point of not making any sense.

Is it? I've read the posts by the members of the group about the attacks by the SDC, it's the exact same thing, people feel threatened, they are anxious, all over a video game no less, and the best part, NONE of those people were the ones attacked, they didn't see or experience anything directly. Your own comments in this very thread are along the same lines, showing the same thought processes, so...is it?

 

[SnowyNI]

You just seriously compared slaughtering an actual human being and ending their life forever to popping someone's virtual space ship and setting them back a few virtual monies, just to try and snidely get a rather invalid point across?

Or maybe that wink says that you were joking, and I'm flying over the handlebars without a helmet. I'm not very good with emoticons. Apologies if that's the case.

I'd take it as the 1st part, esp. if... no nvm, not biting! Some are upset let's just say! <<for your collection.

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Really? You are going to equate murders with people playing a video game? You realize that the moment you do that, you've lost right? You have no actual logical or reasoned response and instead resort to this, you've got no case and have lost.

As stated above.. yes. I don't need to go into details as you lot would get upset and I'd get another warning! Let's just agree that some take upsets more serious than others.

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Good thing this is just a game, right?

Nobody dies. Nobody is harmed. Only pixels are re-shaped and coated with pretty colors. Then we re-spawn and play again. Ahh. The joys of cops n' robbers in a digital fantasy universe.

Only sometimes!

 

[Notwyn]

Its no where near that simple

Player B has PVE set

Player A hits Player B in a case of accidental fire in a furball with NPC commanders

Player A didnt mean it and B is undamaged however

Does Player A gain a bounty?
Does player A lose Rep?
Does player A gain heat?
Can Player A lose cargo through heat damage?
Do the police turn on player A?
Does player A get his ammunition back?
What happens if A rams B?
What Happens if a Ram B accidently
What happens if B is destroyed by Ramming A accidentally
What happens if B is destroyed by ramming A
What happens if A shoots B in a no fire zone?

A has done no damage what so ever to B and it was in any case accidental (or not) an acceptable rule set is required for both A and B not just B - and that's a quick check Ive not really thought too much about it

KISS principle applies. Nothing happens, you just carry on. Odds are player A and B didn't even notice. Don't over complicate something unnecessarily.

 

[ianw]

'But blaze your own trail!' you'll say, and I'll respond with, I don't see a single statement where that blaze your own trail ALSO says change how the game works to do so. You are meant to play the game however you want WITHIN the constraints of how the game works.

I'd agree with that up to a point - right up until you get into a discussion about combat logging.
Then see how WITHIN the constraints of the game works and some of the ADULT dumb ass statements that come from the anti loggers.

(not sure if that's the right context for dumb ass not my native lingo you see).

Some people are fine and rational and disparaging about the requests of others - until it comes to something that actually bothers them.

 

[telperion]

Is it? I've read the posts by the members of the group about the attacks by the SDC, it's the exact same thing, people feel threatened, they are anxious, all over a video game no less, and the best part, NONE of those people were the ones attacked, they didn't see or experience anything directly. Your own comments in this very thread are along the same lines, showing the same thought processes, so...is it?

Wow! Just wow.

I play in open. I am part of Mobius but I hardly ever play in it.

I just don't like it when people try to force others to play a specific way, usually for the person doing the persuasion's benefit. I don't like it when people belittle others for their insecurities, quirks and mental issues. I don't like seeing people being bullied because they're not doing what some people want them to.

In other words I don't like seeing the way those who want to take away all other modes and force open on everyone behave to those that don't want to be the victim of those self same people.

Personally, I don't have a victim complex so it doesn't bother me but I feel for those that do. Is that so wrong?

 

[Globusdiablo]

...Maybe you didn't notice that this thread was about the splitting of Mobius group, not the PvP (losers) infiltration?

I'll just leave this here. Please try to stay on target commanders.

[video=youtube;NnP5iDKwuwk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnP5iDKwuwk[/video]

 

[SnowyNI]

...people feel threatened, they are anxious, all over a video game no less...

Yes, they do. I've not been out of solo since it happened, why? It's not safe, and not what I signed up for! You call it excitement, I call it stress (and a broken PC out of my office window!).

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KISS principle applies. Nothing happens, you just carry on. Odds are player A and B didn't even notice. Don't over complicate something unnecessarily.

This! And even if noticed (ie. A or B being a ht for jollies) then they get reported and removed to open, where, if they're still a hat someone either blows them away or they get moved again to shadow where they can abuse themselves!

 

[TanMojo]

This is a sad day as it reflects our very sad state of modern day gaming. The desire to be segregated in a 1:1 scale model of our galaxy just blows my mind away. I just don't get it. The size of the Mobius Group and the need to split it up shows the failure of private groups and how it effectively removes thousands of players from (what I believe to be) the only mode that matters: open mode.

You know, I get it. Most players want entertainment over realism. Most players want to be the hero. Most players don't want much of a challenge. Most players only want to revel in only one kind of emotional state (happy) while gaming. Most players don't know what patience means. It is really sad to see such wonderful technology being given to us, a 1:1 scale immersive galaxy where anything is possible, and most of you just want to go hide in your own little world. Really really sad state of gaming affairs.

These different modes have me convinced that ED will not be the space sim of choice (for me). I want realism and immersion above all else even if that means my play time might get interrupted or modified by outside forces that I can't control. The emergent play is what I prize above all else. It is really sad that many of you don't agree.

 

[Loskene]

I don't like the idea of open PVE. It's too exploitable in any form and seems like it'd only do more harm than good. Having a single open mode that lets players activate a PVE-only tag or something, and making them immune to damage from players would lead to a lot of headscratching over how to handle edge cases, of which there would be many. How is ramming handled? Friendly fire? Defending NPCs? How weird does it look when I shoot at someone and nothing happens?
Having separate open PVP and open PVE modes would only further fragment the community, and as we can see with mobius being broken up, that clearly has negative repercussions for a lot of players.

Nothing good will come of this. Just fix and optimise the administration tools for private groups. Let them set their own internal rules players agree to on joining, let them assign deputies to manage the large number of players, give them access to a log of player interactions, who shot who and when, and the tools to easily restrict access to rulebreakers for an appropriate amount of time.

You don't always need a dramatic solution to solve an intimidating problem.

 

[SnowyNI]

I don't like the idea of open PVE. It's too exploitable in any form and seems like it'd only do more harm than good. Having a single open mode that lets players activate a PVE-only tag or something, and making them immune to damage from players would lead to a lot of headscratching over how to handle edge cases, of which there would be many. How is ramming handled? Friendly fire? Defending NPCs? How weird does it look when I shoot at someone and nothing happens?
Having separate open PVP and open PVE modes would only further fragment the community, and as we can see with mobius being broken up, that clearly has negative repercussions for a lot of players.

Ramming, blocking or any other offence would be handled by the same guys that handle combat loggers I'd guess... once they got reported for abuse? As for "How wierd" have you heard of shields? What was it the Borg had... Adaptive!

Nothing good will come of this. Just fix and optimise the administration tools for private groups. Let them set their own internal rules players agree to on joining, let them assign deputies to manage the large number of players, give them access to a log of player interactions, who shot who and when, and the tools to easily restrict access to rulebreakers for an appropriate amount of time.

You don't always need a dramatic solution to solve an intimidating problem.

They haven't the manpower or time it seems, so it's on hold. I'd say the longer it runs the more harm it's doing, but that's their call. As for spilting the playerbase, well, the one's that play in groups or solo aren't going to be took away from open as their not there in the 1st place?

 

[Kristov]

I'd agree with that up to a point - right up until you get into a discussion about combat logging.
Then see how WITHIN the constraints of the game works and some of the ADULT dumb ass statements that come from the anti loggers.

(not sure if that's the right context for dumb ass not my native lingo you see).

Some people are fine and rational and disparaging about the requests of others - until it comes to something that actually bothers them.

Combat logging is clearly not playing within the constraints of the game, it's the act of bypassing those by either pulling your ethernet cable/killing your wifi connection or closing the game via the Task Manager, which are all quite literally bypassing the game's functions. You can log out via the menu and avoid combat, that is acceptable behaviour according to FD, and FD are the only ones who get to set the rules. Bypassing that is not acceptable according to FD, it's combat logging.

I fail to see how that is even remotely related to people trying to avoid PvP by going into a large and totally unmoderated private group which doesn't offer any way to disable PvP interactions in the first place, as it wasn't MEANT to be a PvE mode. Solo is the ONLY PvE mode in the game, and it's just another Network mode, same as Open and Private Group, they are all Network settings, NOTHING about how the game works or plays gets changed by changing modes, only the network settings change.

That's a rather massive thing right there, we ALL play in the exact same game world in all modes, the same rules apply across all of them, PvP isn't disabled in any of them, Solo simply removes you from being able to play with another human being, it doesn't disable anything in regards to damage or how it's applied.

This is exactly what was offered from the first day of the Kickstarter and is still advertised by FD for Elite: Dangerous, it hasn't ever changed, there is no group PvE option offered or alluded to, that's purely a player created thing.

Mobius started a group that was meant to be players who just wanted to not have PvP without consent, that's all, he allows PvP in his group, there are rules FOR it, it is not prohibited after all. The group has grown beyond the functionality of the system, because the system was never designed for this, it was designed for friends and small groups to play together, 30 or 50 maybe, NOT thousands. FD helped move the members to create 2 specific and separate groups, they didn't fix the bug that makes that many people in a single group break the system, they just moved people to get around the bug, that's it. And that says it all right there.

 

[Jason S]

Please do not turn this into yet another open vs solo thread.

Stay on topic of splitting up a player group because of its size.

No chance of that we want to keep the solo mode, just have open pve as well. With open pve that would not be limited by the 20,000.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Yep, all the guys in prison for murder that only killed one other person should be let out asap, it's only the serial killers that are evil and twisted... right?

What on earth does that have to do with a video game?

 

[Commander Biscuit]

+ for open PVE . If its multiplayer, it doesn't mean that PvP should be forced on you. A lot of multiplayer games are PvE with an optional PvP component, like Guild Wars 2, Star Wars The Old Republic, and so on.

Yep. It could easily be done in Elite by having certain areas of space as open pvp and other areas of space open pve.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Why not have 12 groups?
1 for each hour.
You sign up to the group you happen to be at that time. Any time!
Simply sign up to the 1 of 12 groups whenever you play.
Don't know the math, but would that work better?

 

[Bacalao]

My skin is waterproof I quite like the rain - mind you go to London you see guys in 14 layers of North face clothing cowering under umbrellas jumping out of the way of puddles

Everyone's skin is waterproof, isn't polarity wonderful? The point isn't whether it will hurt you or not, it's just a matter of preference. I don't really like the rain, but I like being outside, so I live in a very arid climate, sand dunes and tumble weeds and everything, I love it. Similarly, I like playing ED (being outside), but interacting with other people in video games is not something I find fulfilling or appealing all the time(getting rained on), whether cooperatively or antagonistically, so I play solo, or in a small IRL friend private group or sometimes when I'm feeling chatty, Mobius. On the rare occasion I feel like "getting wet", I can jump into CQC and let the thunder roll. What a wonderfully clever design FD have come up with for ED, the different modes allow us all to play with who we would like to, when we would like to. I love freedom. It's unfortunate that Mobius had to be split, but I don't think it will have a significant impact on the enjoyment of anyone's game experience. Because it's more geographically restricted people may see more and more players than they used to because the networking will be better. And while it's neat and novel to "meet" someone from the other side of the world, there are people across town just as interesting, so no loss for anyone.

 

[Knot2clever]

I do agree with OP, sad day indeed. Victims of our own success. Will be separated from those I've played with from the very beginning.

I remember when the group were over the moon to reach 500, it was a slow start. Don't think anyone imagined it would reach 20,000. Quite incredible.

Big thanks to Mobius and all the commanders who run, support and moderate the PVE forum.

 

[Thebadmf]

Commander Kaellito just sent me a link to the post. Can't say I'm happy to be split via timezone. He's in the US. I'm in London and along with Mixim we met during the lugh event in mobius. Time zone split means future meetings like this will no longer happen.

Its sad as we've become friends outside the game and to play pve, will have to play in a closed group. Frontier REALLY need to embrace open pve.