Trading nerf and other frustrations
- Thread starter G.T
- Start date
You must be joking. Elite complex???
I think the issue is that it has NO complexity. There's no depth at all to any of the systems or mechanics in Elite.
What it is, as others have said above me, is that it's ridiculously obtuse about explaining the game rules to the player. So yeah, I can see gamers leaving because they are frustrated about not knowing whats going on, or how to play. I honestly don't care that there's some PDF manual that's a mile long explaining things. All the game rules and tutorials should explain everything the player needs to know to play the game effectively, IN THE GAME.
What exactly is complex? Making money while trading? Well, no. Jumping between agricultural/extraction/high tech/industrial even a monkey with a wrench will figure out all the patterns within ONE DAY and will make good profits. Personally, it was a pleasure, for me, trying to figure out the ins and outs of trading by myself and I have some unconfirmed theories left, with new ones brewing, while I fly and learn. I'd like these theories to be confirmed by natural flow of things too, like in good old games. Take tobacco, for instance. It says in the description that it is "used for religious rituals" or some such. So, I was sitting there thinking when it strikes me that i should take a load of it to "chain-smoking miners" or some religious system in future, see if that works. It might not even confirm on the first run, since demand can be temporarily suppressed, but there might be some inherent demand multipliers for that type of cargo relative to the system in question, which would make my line of thinking consistent, provided I got this right. All of this make writing specific guides obsolete, to an extent, but certainly adds to the gameplay.
The problem with another field, namely economical/political background sim., where black box concept is applied, is that there is no viable goal to pursue, as there are no achievements, bonuses earned, for a pilot, when flipping a system or causing one state or the other, be it alone or in group. It's like Don Quixote fighting windmills. And the windmills will just keep spinning. They might want to do something about that, maybe add subtle things along the lines of thinking described above.
It's not complicated. Boring yes. I have given up on the thought of owning a big ship. Why would l want to grind for months & months & months. Buy ship and to upgrade it grind for months & months. Everything is broken or flawed. 1.1 is just tinkering around the edges.
yet dark souls is incredibly lucrative
I understand the point you are trying to make but they frequently try to do what you've suggested, but also do it badly. Wildstar is a reskin of guild wars combat system that basically makes it meaningless, spammy and completely unfun if you want to look at why a game fails i'd start with that.I do think some things in this game are deliberately obfuscated to make life difficult, but in a way it contributes to the feel of the game, the big letdown to me is that parts of it are so easy compared to the lethal consequences of the 100$ fine you didn't pay, the combat is actually a complete cakewalk the "dangerous" part of the title is in all the tiny details nobody wants to bother with lol
It's hard for me to judge since I had no problems getting into the game - but Fd should not dumped the game down - no no no. What they could try to do is to explain the game mechanic in more, better crafted tutorials.
On my current route; 50 player ships in last 24hrs of which 8 visits by big ships (6 of them possibly me though I'm not sure how they calculate the visits). There are a dozen profitable metals; they want between 100K and 300K of each. Both supply and demand are high at both ends. I shift 436t at 1800 profit. Next trip it is 1400 profit. Next trip it is 730 profit, next trip is 230 profit. So 1744 units of the 200K they want and the profit has disappeared, I'm not even covering the fuel cost. That does not seem right to me.
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so the balance to a few people being able to make disgustingly large amounts of money in very specific circumstances is balanced by nerfing the entire profession until those people making up less than 5% of the group are making what FD thinks the proffession should make, screw the guys who werent doing it and now find their beforehand sub-to-average routes paying peanut dust
fact is, FD's reaction to "balance" so far ahs been carpet bombing the issues (changing weapon heat, shield cells also adding heat, and everything else all at ocne with no regard to hwo they effect eachother) to straight up catering to the most vocal of the "we love FD" crowd (making the Viper the 1v1 wins everythign ship by nerfing anything thats an actual threat to it 1v1)
They call that economics. Google the law of diminishing returns.
Really; is that what economics is? I'm glad you are here to teach me all about it. How would I manage without you. I must email my old prof and let him know he should talk to you about it - he's so stuck in the past and you'd be able to set him straight about the subject.
OP has it spot on.
About the trading in particular, it does not make sense in any way. I found a neat earner yesterday, two huge populations, High tech and Extraction, 1300 one way and 1000 the other way, high demand and high stocks, we are talking 10 000' s units, suddenly it is not viable anymore, no Cmdrs other than me around, What gives?
I simply dont believe 'black box' anymore , its just a clock determining highs and lows, in my opinion, it simply does not make sense. I am too now getting frustrated with it, as it it is not logical.
And font start me On: Nerfs, lacking depth, scalable missions, scalable everything, missing story, Some proper Gal Net, instead of this insta- cup crap.
Been here since 27.06.2014 and my patience is thinning, If they dont deliver soon this game will die. I would hate that. But FD lost direction.. Look at 1.1 Beta , no real features, a massive Thread on the nerfing of Python, and hardly anything else..... What a Pity.
And look at the feature set in 1.1 ' City lights' .................what is this!!!!! is this crap.... We want content , not fluff!!!!
FD is on course right now to loose a lot of players, look at threads in forum demanding more substance, for me personally, I weep, I waited 30 yeas for the follow up to Elite, and I am served this...
A increasingly not so happy gamer.
Cheers Cmdr's
About the trading in particular, it does not make sense in any way. I found a neat earner yesterday, two huge populations, High tech and Extraction, 1300 one way and 1000 the other way, high demand and high stocks, we are talking 10 000' s units, suddenly it is not viable anymore, no Cmdrs other than me around, What gives?
I simply dont believe 'black box' anymore , its just a clock determining highs and lows, in my opinion, it simply does not make sense. I am too now getting frustrated with it, as it it is not logical.
And font start me On: Nerfs, lacking depth, scalable missions, scalable everything, missing story, Some proper Gal Net, instead of this insta- cup crap.
Been here since 27.06.2014 and my patience is thinning, If they dont deliver soon this game will die. I would hate that. But FD lost direction.. Look at 1.1 Beta , no real features, a massive Thread on the nerfing of Python, and hardly anything else..... What a Pity.
And look at the feature set in 1.1 ' City lights' .................what is this!!!!! is this crap.... We want content , not fluff!!!!
FD is on course right now to loose a lot of players, look at threads in forum demanding more substance, for me personally, I weep, I waited 30 yeas for the follow up to Elite, and I am served this...
A increasingly not so happy gamer.
Cheers Cmdr's
Thats goddam right.
It's good that you can speak on behalf of all typical gamers everywhere.
Yeah, its not that the mechanics are hard to figure out, its that we look at them and how they logically SHOULD work, but it doesnt, so we ask FD to clarify and we get a
"OOOO no info for you, its the magical MYSTERY tour, if we told you the game wouldnt be FUN anymore, but if you think its broken show us some hard facts and well look at it"
basically, FD isnt telling us anything so we are STILL stuck beta-testng a game, but its a game that we have no hard information on how its SUPPOSED to work, so we have no clue when the game is just different than we expect, or outright bugged and broken
This is not a jab at those that have issue with the game. But I want to point out a little something.
I find WoW boring and repetitive, mindlessly so, I am bored out of my mind and as such don't play it. Yet still millions of others find it fun.
It is entirely possible that there are games that simply don't work with certain people, I try to respect that, especially in threads like this where they state reasons rather then just "I'm bored, this game sucks!"
Ultimately all online games I've seen so far involve doing the same thing over and over, the only real difference is how they cover it up, make it look like you are not. Is Elite missing that coat of paint so to speak? maybe, not to me, but maybe to others.
I find WoW boring and repetitive, mindlessly so, I am bored out of my mind and as such don't play it. Yet still millions of others find it fun.
It is entirely possible that there are games that simply don't work with certain people, I try to respect that, especially in threads like this where they state reasons rather then just "I'm bored, this game sucks!"
Ultimately all online games I've seen so far involve doing the same thing over and over, the only real difference is how they cover it up, make it look like you are not. Is Elite missing that coat of paint so to speak? maybe, not to me, but maybe to others.
Trading nerfed? Made more realistic. Half the pages are loaded with people crying about bounty hunting/exploring/mining being unprofitable. Now everyone is whinging about a better trade model. For those who don't get it... Elite is not about who has the most, the biggest or some goal. Its a big old sandbox where someone has taken the galaxy and says go make your way and experience and explore. Now if that zen like enjoyment eludes you, and achievements and medals and big shiny anacondas are what you absolutely must have then I rather fear you have the wrong end of the stick here. I have played elite since the bbc incarnation through the spectrum and amiga. It is as it always has been in ethos. It is minecraft in space if you like. Do what you like in the manner that suits you.
I rather feel many people need to just kick back and slow down and enjoy some escapism.
In more specific terms you can hone your trading abilities and longevity by picking worlds that are massive populations (billions) and have opposite requirements and don't be afraid to have them 3-5 jumps apart, it costs peanuts, adds a couple of minutes to the route and avoids the linear thinkers that need two planets within one jump. I have been trading 104 tons in my type 6 getting 1500 or 1454 one way (depending on which commodity is doing better) and 1249 the other, 34ly apart (4 jumps due to layout of intervening worlds) making over a million an hour for about the last 4 days. I stop every time the market starts to drop by more than 100 per ton profit (takes hours) and go shoot something for a while in my spare viper until market recovers. I stay content and keep earning. Ive just fitted out an adder as an explorer so next time my market drops ill off and visit some nebulae or something. The game is what you make it. Make it a grind and guess what?.......
I rather feel many people need to just kick back and slow down and enjoy some escapism.
In more specific terms you can hone your trading abilities and longevity by picking worlds that are massive populations (billions) and have opposite requirements and don't be afraid to have them 3-5 jumps apart, it costs peanuts, adds a couple of minutes to the route and avoids the linear thinkers that need two planets within one jump. I have been trading 104 tons in my type 6 getting 1500 or 1454 one way (depending on which commodity is doing better) and 1249 the other, 34ly apart (4 jumps due to layout of intervening worlds) making over a million an hour for about the last 4 days. I stop every time the market starts to drop by more than 100 per ton profit (takes hours) and go shoot something for a while in my spare viper until market recovers. I stay content and keep earning. Ive just fitted out an adder as an explorer so next time my market drops ill off and visit some nebulae or something. The game is what you make it. Make it a grind and guess what?.......
Most the problems have been around since beta. Main problem is NOTHING scales with the game.
Missions are mostly 5k-10k. It's been like this forever. Where are the 400 ton missions for 900k? I haven't done a mission since Christmas because they haven't been worth doing.
Conflict zones 3k... I know it's going up but when the insurance is 6 million that equals 600x 10k kills to cover a single death. Because of my rank when I enter a conflict zone I play against mostly deadly and elite ships. Where is the risk vs reward when I'm fighting elite ships for the same rewards as someone flighting a zone full of harmless ships because of their low rank.
What REALLY BUGS me is when trading get changed and we get told... what? nothing, zilch, zip, nada. We STILL haven't been told was it an intended change, a glitch, a trial, a test. With trading this is the now the SECOND time we haven't been told it was coming and the first time it was days before they admitted it and weeks before they fixed it.
At least Python pilots know what's coming. Traders still have NO IDEA what's going on. If you're going to radically change something FD at least have the decency to let the players know, preferably beforehand but at the very least AFTER you change it!
Missions are mostly 5k-10k. It's been like this forever. Where are the 400 ton missions for 900k? I haven't done a mission since Christmas because they haven't been worth doing.
Conflict zones 3k... I know it's going up but when the insurance is 6 million that equals 600x 10k kills to cover a single death. Because of my rank when I enter a conflict zone I play against mostly deadly and elite ships. Where is the risk vs reward when I'm fighting elite ships for the same rewards as someone flighting a zone full of harmless ships because of their low rank.
What REALLY BUGS me is when trading get changed and we get told... what? nothing, zilch, zip, nada. We STILL haven't been told was it an intended change, a glitch, a trial, a test. With trading this is the now the SECOND time we haven't been told it was coming and the first time it was days before they admitted it and weeks before they fixed it.
At least Python pilots know what's coming. Traders still have NO IDEA what's going on. If you're going to radically change something FD at least have the decency to let the players know, preferably beforehand but at the very least AFTER you change it!
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