I actually think Arsen's suggestion is a pretty nice compromise between all three viewpoints. A different way to access witch space that exists in it's own instance on the server would open up all kinds of new opportunities for different things. People who just want to get where they're going can choose to just cruise to their destination, all the while vulnerable to attacks by those who want travel to consist of a combat component. If they don't want to deal with the combat part, they can always jump into solo mode. The people who want to enjoy the journey also get something out of it because they get to plot their own path and stop wherever they feel like. That system would still require somewhat active attention to the controls, but wouldn't require the constant, grindy repetitiveness that the current short jump model requires. I would actually shift from just getting where I want to go to actually enjoying the journey part because it's less rapid, repetitive tasks and more just keeping an eye on things.
Travel Methods
- Thread starter avarusbrightfyre
- Start date
if it is stressful to you, then it is not the game which would be at fault, but your hasteful style of playing the game. Same with grind - there is no grind per se, what creates it, is player behavior, who force themselves to these grindy operations.
The game itself is pretty generous with mission times for example - you have so much time to accomplish it, there is no need to rush it.
The game itself is pretty generous with mission times for example - you have so much time to accomplish it, there is no need to rush it.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that haste is somehow a part of my desire for a change. I've stated very clearly many, many times that my irritation is at the repetitive actions required in the current system, not the amount of time it actually takes to get places. In every version we've talked about in this thread, I've made it very clear that whatever new system that could be implemented should still take the same amount of time to cover a certain distance as it does now. It's not about being impatient. All I would like to see is a way to cover that same distance in the same amount of time without having to be actively controlling the ship from start to finish. For me, there is no entertainment value out of manual control of the ship outside of combat or docking, so everything in between is just busy work with no fun value to me. I'd like to be able to get the ship on its way and then maybe run to the bathroom or read a news article or maybe watch some TV while I wait to arrive at my next waypoint.
As it is, if you want to do any extensive travelling, you have absolutely no other option than to sit at the controls endlessly repeating the same steps ad nauseum. Jump, swing around the star, wait for the cool down, charge the drive, jump, swing around the star, wait for the cool down, charge the drive, jump, swing around the star, wait for the cool down, charge the drive, jump......
It's fine if certain tasks absolutely have to be repetitive so there that is a time investment involved in accomplishing your goal. Things like mining or combat or surface reconnaissance obviously require heavily active participation because there is actual value being gained from the activity. But just travelling from one star system to another shouldn't require such an active role from the pilot, because you are just moving from one productive activity to another and there is no value added in the process of getting there. You should have the choice to be that active if you want to, but there really should be an option that allows people who don't to minimize the number of endlessly repeated tasks currently required to move from one location to another.
What would be the benefit for FDev, if they would implement it?- It is not in their interest, that you watch TV or do anything else than playing the game, while you are in the game world. Ok, you could stay docked of course and do something else, but that doesn't differ much from you being logged out. But when you are actually playing - and space travel is game play - you should be focused on playing and not do something else meanwhile. That is not in the interest of FDev, if you can do that, because you could potentially get interested into another game and be gone for good or for a while.
Lazy travel, where you can just do something else outside of the game meanwhile is not very likely to be implemented.
Lazy travel, where you can just do something else outside of the game meanwhile is not very likely to be implemented.
It benefits them if they want to keep players who find it odious to travel the way it works today. I haven't logged on to the game in weeks solely because I can't stand the way travel works right now, so I'm not sure how forcing boring and repetitive space travel on players is helping the developers. I still have the game installed and every once in a while I look at the game and think maybe I'll play, but then I sigh in disgust because I just don't want to deal with the travel system. It comprises a significant part of the game and it's too much like work, and that's not what I'm here for. I get enough of that in my day job.
It does differ from being logged out in that I'm only doing something else while I wait to get where I'm going...in other words, killing two birds with one stone. Then I arrive at my destination and I'm back to actively focusing on the game until I'm ready to move on to the next thing. I'm also still logged in the entire time, so whatever method they use to track that is still ticking, which is a benefit to them. Sounds like a win-win to me.
The argument that I should be focused on gameplay 100% of the time is only reasonable if the gameplay is entertaining 100% of the time, and the A to B travel in the game is most definitely not. Few of us enjoy the commute to work, even though many of us love to drive, so I'm not sure how we're supposed to enjoy commuting between star systems, regardless of the method being used. This is why I advocate an adjustment that provides us with the option to take as much of the work out of that commute as possible. If it's going to be boring anyway, how about letting me do something more interesting to pass that time. I have to put up with it in my car, but I shouldn't have to in a video game.
You can call it lazy, I suppose, but for me it's just a request to make the game more bearable. All I can do is bring up the issue. It's up to them to decide to do it or not.
Maybe I understood you wrong - let's see about that. If I got you right, you want that someone can go from the current star system to a destination star system in one go, let's say Deciat to Maia - which is one of the first challenging journeys for a newbie - like 20 jumps normally, let's further say 6 minutes each, so it takes 2 hours - and instead of this being an experience for the newbie, he can just go and watch a movie for 2 hours and arrive in Maia - same again when he has gotten meta alloys and is on the way back to Deciat - again 2 hours for another movie and no danger of being ransacked by pirates (and there are some, who want those meta alloys). So instead of 4 hours of interesting game play with some excitement, that newbie would be 2x2 hours watching videos - nah, I don't see FDev implementing that - that is not a win-win at all.
And what if I want to travel from the bubble to colonia - will I be just a couple of days offline then, while my ship is traveling the distance? Sure, you would have to refuel once in a while - but why not automate that as well then?- Why not remove pretty much all tedious stuff from the game?- Oops, there is nothing left anymore - even a lot of the fights are just of the Sun Tzu type of fights (already won from the start), so why not automate them as well - what is left from the game, if we follow that path to remove everything what is a little boring or tedious?
I see why you want that from your personal perspective, but I don't see it benefitting the game in a whole. It's afk travel in the end, you are not playing the game for eventually hours or days, while your ship is "playing" the game for you. We have more than enough stuff already, which makes these travels very bearable - like refueling around a star, supercruise assist does that for you - or travelling inside a star system - supercruise assist does that for you as well - or docking and even leaving a station - docking computer does that for you - well, why not give me a win-game button and I don't have to play at all?
Having to travel in the way it is makes you want better modules for your ship - so it gives you something to thrive for, a goal to achieve, which will make your life in the game better. But to really want that, it takes that "unbearable" moment of having to travel in a tedious way to even want to change that. Why would I even want a better FSD, power plant or other elements which make my ship better, if I can just watch a movie while my ship is warp-snailing through the galaxy on it's own - and this is what it becomes then. Deciat to Khun f.e., in my travel sidewinder I could make the distance in a single go without having to refuel - that is an hour, where I could just do something else (using your suggestion) - which is "not playing the game" - why do I want to play ED again?- Ah, space travel, sci-fi future - which I'm not experiencing in the end, because I will be afk traveling - no really, that is not the way.
And what if I want to travel from the bubble to colonia - will I be just a couple of days offline then, while my ship is traveling the distance? Sure, you would have to refuel once in a while - but why not automate that as well then?- Why not remove pretty much all tedious stuff from the game?- Oops, there is nothing left anymore - even a lot of the fights are just of the Sun Tzu type of fights (already won from the start), so why not automate them as well - what is left from the game, if we follow that path to remove everything what is a little boring or tedious?
I see why you want that from your personal perspective, but I don't see it benefitting the game in a whole. It's afk travel in the end, you are not playing the game for eventually hours or days, while your ship is "playing" the game for you. We have more than enough stuff already, which makes these travels very bearable - like refueling around a star, supercruise assist does that for you - or travelling inside a star system - supercruise assist does that for you as well - or docking and even leaving a station - docking computer does that for you - well, why not give me a win-game button and I don't have to play at all?
Having to travel in the way it is makes you want better modules for your ship - so it gives you something to thrive for, a goal to achieve, which will make your life in the game better. But to really want that, it takes that "unbearable" moment of having to travel in a tedious way to even want to change that. Why would I even want a better FSD, power plant or other elements which make my ship better, if I can just watch a movie while my ship is warp-snailing through the galaxy on it's own - and this is what it becomes then. Deciat to Khun f.e., in my travel sidewinder I could make the distance in a single go without having to refuel - that is an hour, where I could just do something else (using your suggestion) - which is "not playing the game" - why do I want to play ED again?- Ah, space travel, sci-fi future - which I'm not experiencing in the end, because I will be afk traveling - no really, that is not the way.
Last edited:
If it's taking six minutes to make each jump, there's something seriously wrong with the pilot's jumping process. It takes about me about a minute (even with fuel scooping) to make each jump, so more like twenty minutes for twenty jumps. But yes, I've stated very clearly multiple times throughout the life of this post that I would like a new, separate type of FSD...as in not removing access to what you're using right now, but an additional FSD that you don't have to buy if you really want keep making hundreds of little jumps because you think it's fun. Newbies obviously wouldn't start out with it. It would be an expensive, late game item that you save up for like the higher end fuel scoops, so they'd get plenty of practice with the basic FSD and this new one would be a nice reward for all that hard work.
As far as pirates, the only time you're ever in any real danger from them is when you actually arrive in a destination system and are travelling to a station or planet or other point of interest. No one has a serious chance of catching you if you're just swinging around a star and hopping straight to the next system. If you're travelling as far as your fuel allows, then you'll spend a lot more time around a star refueling and giving pirates more of a chance to catch you. As a matter of fact, you'd get a lot more action from attackers if we actually moved over to that interstellar super cruise system proposed by Arsen because then at least you'd be trackable long enough for people to come get you, just like the existing intra-system super cruise.
Who says you can't get better upgrades for a new type of FSD? You'd still be looking to increase maximum jump range per unit of fuel, so I'm not sure why it would be any different in that regard than it is now. Besides, the developers set the precedent by offering upgrades that increase jump range in the first place. The reason we upgrade our FSD is to reduce the number of jumps. If the developers have implemented upgrades that reduce the number of times you have to execute jumps, why is it so unreasonable to ask them to take the next step by further minimizing it?
As far as removing all tedious tasks from the game, that's an unreasonable slippery slope argument. I've already stated very clearly that actions that have measurable value like mining or missions or combat or whatever will require a high level of active participation and it will likely be tedious. I can live with that form of tediousness because you're actively receiving something for that effort, be it credits or increasing your rank. Traveling is just getting from A to B and has no measurable value, which means I get absolutely nothing in return for it. It's an arbitrary time component of the game, so your argument to require active participation in that particular process makes no sense to me.
Travel adds "distance" to the game - it gives players the opportunity to be in places that others will not easily reach.
Be it many jumps away OR several minutes in SC away, remove that from the game and you remove a vital part of the experience imho - there will nowhere left to "hide" in the "infinite universe" if anybody can get anywhere without effort
Especially in open such distance is, or can be a crucial tactical consideration - in solo it matters much less of course.
Last edited:
Well, I could live with an expensive end game equipment like this. Space travel takes a lot of time and how FDev has implemented it, distance has meaning. For me any jump to a system not known by me yet means money - for discoveries and selling map pages later on. Each jump takes me a little while until i get the "completed" message from the discovery scanner. Then I want to take a look at the system map and check if there are unexplored bodies - I might want to scan them for further exploration money -that all takes time, even when I'm not scanning those bodies. I think that is game play which a newbie should experience and therefore not have access to such an alternate travel option early on.
I do most of this stuff in a sidewinder - because it has just about 50k rebuy costs - just in case something goes wrong. I have currently 23 ly jump range, what is good enough for exploration of the bubble. I have 10 units fuel on board and just a 1A fuel scoop, so it takes me about 6 minutes per jump in average to do all this. I'm not bothered by it at all, what else would I have to do while traveling?
I do most of this stuff in a sidewinder - because it has just about 50k rebuy costs - just in case something goes wrong. I have currently 23 ly jump range, what is good enough for exploration of the bubble. I have 10 units fuel on board and just a 1A fuel scoop, so it takes me about 6 minutes per jump in average to do all this. I'm not bothered by it at all, what else would I have to do while traveling?
I do that quite often actually - hang out in some remote location and watch the stars and planets - or watch the ships come and go in port while working or even watching TV.
ED is not a game that requires 100% of your attention all the time - nor should it be imho
Well, to me it is about immersion - if I would be distracted by rl things, I'd just close the game and care for that first. But when playing, I want to feel like I'm in the year 3307 exploring the vast galaxy - well, that tiny bubble I'm currently exploring in -which is the triangle between Deciat, Khun and Maia. That is an area where I can reach pretty much anything without to refuel or just once in between.
I'm as well interested what powers do in these regions - which systems are in what state. I guess that power play is eventually something I could get involved with. This is basically what I'm doing while traveling and that takes some time - I'm not in a rush and enjoy doing that.
I realize of course that this all doesn't matter much once I will have a lot of money - then perspective will change just like it did in EVE when i passed the 500 billion isk line and can afford pretty much anything i would want. That is the time when I might get bored and start a new character.
I'm as well interested what powers do in these regions - which systems are in what state. I guess that power play is eventually something I could get involved with. This is basically what I'm doing while traveling and that takes some time - I'm not in a rush and enjoy doing that.
I realize of course that this all doesn't matter much once I will have a lot of money - then perspective will change just like it did in EVE when i passed the 500 billion isk line and can afford pretty much anything i would want. That is the time when I might get bored and start a new character.
Last edited:
I totally agree. I would never advocate making travel instantaneous and that was never my point. My focus is on how much I have to actively participate in that travel, not adjusting how long it takes to get somewhere. I'm just not a fan of the overly frequent rinse and repeat method the game uses to get from one place to another.Travel adds "distance" to the game - it gives players the opportunity to be in places that others will not easily reach.
Be it many jumps away OR several minutes in SC away, remove that from the game and you remove a vital part of the experience imho - there will nowhere left to "hide" in the "infinite universe" if anybody can get anywhere without effort
Especially in open such distance is, or can be a crucial tactical consideration - in solo it matters much less of course.
I've made quite a bit of money on exploration myself, and that would be one of the drawbacks of utilizing a more direct travel method. Everything has pros and cons. If you're just wanting to poke around looking for cool things, you can still do that with the systems being proposed here. Nothing is stopping you from making shorter jumps. I'm simply advocating for an additional option for when you're not in the mood for exploration and you just want to get where you're going.
And I think this is where the disagreement stems from. If you don't travel very far, then the repetitiveness isn't really much of an issue for you. I can tell you that for me, the trip to Beagle Point and back was extremely mind numbing. I tried to make stops at interesting places along the way to make it more bearable, but in the end it's still hundreds and hundreds of extremely repetitive jumps. I think it definitely should take a long time to get to places like this so the trip actually means something, but I don't know that I agree with the idea that it should require a lot of mind numbing effort to get there. If I can get to the same place in the same amount of time with a tenth of the number of jumps, I'd much prefer that to what exists now.
It's like the Hutton Orbital trip. That takes forever to get to the station (and I actually should go get that achievement done), and at the end you feel like you accomplished something because it took forever to get done. You didn't actively participate in the flight because you just pointed toward it and let the ship fly in super cruise, but you still feel accomplished when you're done because the journey isn't about moving sticks around...it's about getting to your destination. I'd much rather all space travel be more like that than a focus on being in active control of the ship at all times.
iirc that is about 45 minutes for that supercruise to Hutton Orbital - I was quite surprised how big a single system can be. But you are right, I never made more than about 1000ly in a single go - and that is about 50 jumps and took a whole evening to complete. Quite good payout for all the exploration data I gathered that evening. During a long supercruise I tend to gather some information about the region using eddb.io. I haven't been to true deep space yet.
I deleted my former save files, because I focused on trading and found it very lacking compared to EVE's market place. Well with carriers that might be different now, will take a while to get there though. But I guess I will go for powerplay this time - looks like I'll be again unlikely to leave the bubble for a long time.
I have nothing against your travel system as long as it isn't available early on. IMO that will just lead to people leaving the game pretty quick, because they do anything else but playing with this system. I can see though, that it is good for those, who know their way around the galaxy and just want to get over with traveling the same route again and again.
I deleted my former save files, because I focused on trading and found it very lacking compared to EVE's market place. Well with carriers that might be different now, will take a while to get there though. But I guess I will go for powerplay this time - looks like I'll be again unlikely to leave the bubble for a long time.
I have nothing against your travel system as long as it isn't available early on. IMO that will just lead to people leaving the game pretty quick, because they do anything else but playing with this system. I can see though, that it is good for those, who know their way around the galaxy and just want to get over with traveling the same route again and again.
I think we have found some common ground here.
Absolutely!
So, like the auto dock and cruise assist, those that want auto route jump,
just add it onto cruise assist where you can turn it on or off.
That way both sides have the option to use it or not.
just add it onto cruise assist where you can turn it on or off.
That way both sides have the option to use it or not.
that would make it cheap - it shouldn't be a feature for newbies IMO. Another question would be the slot size for it - maybe 3 or 4 - it's quite powerful and there should be a trade-off in using it.
Last edited: