General / Off-Topic Trump: Legal Issues (was The Testimony of James Comey)

[Sunleader]

Comey: "No explicit order, but I interpreted it as an instruction" --- Well, it seems that the case is closed. Like a cheese soufflé, the case is emptied of its substance. Trump can continue to govern quietly

Fortunately. This aint how its working.

An very common thing in Big Companies as well.
Reminding your Employee that your the One Paying his Rent and at the same Time mentioning that something he is doing is not very Pleasing for him. And that he Hopes you can do something about it.

Sure no Order or Instruction has been Given here.
But if your telling me that you would not understand the Hint your Boss is giving there. I would assume your Lying cause your Obviously not thaaat Stupid.

 

[hairychris]

McCain ... bit of a muppet really.

2 completely different investigations... That was painful to listen to.

 

[hairychris]

Right.

If I say to someone "Give me all your money, or you might get hurt"... I'm not saying that I'm going to hurt them am I? I'm not threatening them with anything, I'm just saying that if they don't give me money I might not be able to afford proper shoes, and I might fall over on top of them if I ever see them again.

"Nice family you have there, I really hope that nothing happens to it"

Trump has had dealings with mobsters for decades. He knows exactly how it works. Comey is well aware of this.

 

[lysan]

Lol, thats not how it works. [haha]

MKAY, sure

 

[FuzzySpider]

MKAY, sure
https://68.media.tumblr.com/2d61e240a6b882f652f27195a0822330/tumblr_inline_n2or8afJAy1rbrja2.gif

Not sure what that means. Sleutelbos is right, that is not how it works.

 

[lysan]

Not sure what that means. Sleutelbos is right, that is not how it works.

There is nothing here, not even smoke, you can't run with this not even 2 mm, sorry but it will be business as usual tomorrow and until next election, then we can ....

Spoiler

Fortunately. This aint how its working.

An very common thing in Big Companies as well.
Reminding your Employee that your the One Paying his Rent and at the same Time mentioning that something he is doing is not very Pleasing for him. And that he Hopes you can do something about it.

Sure no Order or Instruction has been Given here.
But if your telling me that you would not understand the Hint your Boss is giving there. I would assume your Lying cause your Obviously not thaaat Stupid.

LOL, are your guys throwing everything at the wall hoping something will stick, watch the baby, watch the baby

Spoiler

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Comey: "No explicit order, but I interpreted it as an instruction" --- Well, it seems that the case is closed. Like a cheese soufflé, the case is emptied of its substance. Trump can continue to govern quietly

A cheese soufflé ? :S

 

[hairychris]

MKAY, sure
https://68.media.tumblr.com/2d61e240a6b882f652f27195a0822330/tumblr_inline_n2or8afJAy1rbrja2.gif

Nope, "I hope" has been used in at least one previous obstruction of justice case:

https://twitter.com/adamliptak/status/872835418194157568

It is unambiguous as an outside listener, although if English isn't your first language you may not be aware of how context can change meaning.

Someone in power saying "I hope" to an underling has very definite connotations.

 

[lysan]

Nope, "I hope" has been used in at least one previous obstruction of justice case:

https://twitter.com/adamliptak/status/872835418194157568

It is unambiguous as an outside listener, although if English isn't your first language you may not be aware of how context can change meaning.

Someone in power saying "I hope" to an underling has very definite connotations.

Listen, when I was in the military, MY superior often hoped I could do this or that, if I was in doubt it was against the rules I always asked.

"are you ordering me to do it?" sometimes I was told, Yes this is an order, and then it was clear, other times it was more like, no this is not an order.

Comey is behaving a bit unprofessional in my opinion, no one in the system can be this naive.

Comey: "No explicit order, but I interpreted it as an instruction" --- Well, it seems that the case is closed. Like a cheese soufflé, the case is emptied of its substance. Trump can continue to govern quietly

Repped for the cheese souffle remark

 

[Patrick_68000]

So when your boss says "I hope you can do this" you don't take it as an instruction?

Not necessarily. A hope is not necessarily an order when the skills are separated

 

[who?]

Comey: "No explicit order, but I interpreted it as an instruction" --- Well, it seems that the case is closed. Like a cheese soufflé, the case is emptied of its substance. Trump can continue to govern quietly

I'm thrilled to hear this is how the legal system works.

Consider all my morally and legally dubious lingo duly updated.

"I hope you can see your way clear to shooting my wife. I hope you can do that. I hope I can leave $10,000 in a brown paper bag behind this park-bench. I hope you'll find it there"

 

[Patrick_68000]

Right.

If I say to someone "Give me all your money, or you might get hurt"... I'm not saying that I'm going to hurt them am I? I'm not threatening them with anything, I'm just saying that if they don't give me money I might not be able to afford proper shoes, and I might fall over on top of them if I ever see them again.

The word "I hope" is ambiguous. In this case, it can also mean that the person hopes that the investigation will be abandoned because the person is innocent

 

[hairychris]

Listen, when I was in the military, MY superior often hoped I could do this or that, if I was in doubt it was against the rules I always asked.

"are you ordering me to do it?" sometimes I was told, Yes this is an order, and then it was clear, other times it was more like, no this is not an order.

Comey is behaving a bit unprofessional in my opinion, no one in the system can be this naive.

Well yes, but in your case you had superiors who, I imagine, knew the rules.

Now, when a lying property developer-turned-President says "I hope" the takeaway is a bit different. In the corporate world too, a superior saying "I hope" is very close to a request... the more senior the requester the closer to a flat-out order, especially when concerning something that was bothering them that was in the field of the subordinate who was being asked. It's also usually difficult to reject directly, as subordinate is aware that things may go badly for them.

Context is everything. And, as I posted above, statements with "I hope" in them have been used as evidence in court as requests.

As for Comey being unprofessional, well maybe. However I also think that he was surprised by the situation.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Fortunately. This aint how its working.

An very common thing in Big Companies as well.
Reminding your Employee that your the One Paying his Rent and at the same Time mentioning that something he is doing is not very Pleasing for him. And that he Hopes you can do something about it.

Sure no Order or Instruction has been Given here.
But if your telling me that you would not understand the Hint your Boss is giving there. I would assume your Lying cause your Obviously not thaaat Stupid.

The word "I hope" can have many meanings. Even if it is said by a boss to an employee, I do not believe that legally it can be interpreted as an order

 

[hairychris]

The word "I hope" is ambiguous. In this case, it can also mean that the person hopes that the investigation will be abandoned because the person is innocent

You're ignoring context.

Superior saying "I hope" to subordinate over matter that subordinate controls is a very clear suggestion, if not veiled command.

Similar statements have been used in court before to demonstrate intent.

At the very best interpretation, Trump used language very badly.

What makes this less likely is his later statements saying about "the thing we have going on". Total gangster-speak. It's not one simple slip.

 

[hairychris]

Forget it. Stupid me!

 

[Patrick_68000]

Between saying "I hope" and saying "Do it", there is a major difference

 

[ArchEmperor]

Fake news.... we are already getting tired of it.

Now it became a question of "what is fake and what is not?"

I am afraid everything is just a scripted event. Nothing is real, everything is fake. We are just watching a soap opera.

And that is the best defense for everything. Now Trump can do whatever he likes, whenever he wants too and how ever good and merciful it may be.

He can plant trees, help the poor, feed the kids, give our young an education and provide us with jobs.

No, he wont do evil things, he is waaaaay too narcissistic for slandering his name with such nasty things. He wants to be known as the good, the great and the nice one.

 

[lysan]

Well yes, but in your case you had superiors who, I imagine, knew the rules.

Now, when a lying property developer-turned-President says "I hope" the takeaway is a bit different. In the corporate world too, a superior saying "I hope" is very close to a request... the more senior the requester the closer to a flat-out order, especially when concerning something that was bothering them that was in the field of the subordinate who was being asked. It's also usually difficult to reject directly, as subordinate is aware that things may go badly for them.

Context is everything. And, as I posted above, statements with "I hope" in them have been used as evidence in court as requests.

As for Comey being unprofessional, well maybe. However I also think that he was surprised by the situation.

He should know better, FBI directors should be well aware of all kinds of traps and political charades.

Look I'm not a Trump fan, yes I voted for him because of one issue I wanted to be fixed.
However until now, I haven't seen anything that could threaten him and his chair in the office. It's like the Obama birth certificate, it won't go to court.

I'm thrilled to hear this is how the legal system works.

Consider all my morally and legally dubious lingo duly updated.

"I hope you can see your way clear to shooting my wife. I hope you can do that. I hope I can leave $10,000 in a brown paper bag behind this park-bench. I hope you'll find it there"

but here you're very direct, CoVfefe didn't say it that way

 

[Patrick_68000]

A cheese soufflé ? :S

A cheese soufflé can collapse on itself after the cooking