Turret damage?

[Hossi]

When they chaff on your gimballed projectiles, and you deselect target to fire them fixed - how do you see where the lead reticule is to aim with?

If you deselect the target, you don't get the benefit of a balistical lead-calculation anymore.
You have to manualy lead.
Estimate the distance, estimate the direction and speed of movement, fire and see where you are hitting, then correct the lead-point until you see the impacts.
The old-fashioned way

 

[Old Duck]

And if they use chaff, the turrets are worthless.

Try some gimbals, a vulture should have no problems keeping them on target. If they chaff, unselect target to get a fixed weapon.

On most of my ships where I use turrets these days, I counter-balance them with fixed weapons and seekers, that way I always have something that I can use against any counter. I've never been much a fan for untarget / retarget, so I'd rather just toggle off turrets using fire groups during a chaff storm and use my fixed weapons exclusively. Speaking of, this is another advantage of turrets on larger ships - they don't need their own fire button (you can double them up with other weapons), thus giving more flexibility when you have a bunch of different weapon types on your ship.

 

[galahad2069]

When they chaff on your gimballed projectiles, and you deselect target to fire them fixed - how do you see where the lead reticule is to aim with?

Probably he was talking about lasers.

Edit: oh I can see now he wasn't, forget it.

 

[galahad2069]

If you deselect the target, you don't get the benefit of a balistical lead-calculation anymore.
You have to manualy lead.
Estimate the distance, estimate the direction and speed of movement, fire and see where you are hitting, then correct the lead-point until you see the impacts.
The old-fashioned way

Well if you're up against a CMDR who is flying anything smaller and more agile than an Anaconda, your dps while doing it "the old fashioned way" will most probably be so negligible that it will be wiser to stop firing, put some pips to sys and fly evasively.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

If you deselect the target, you don't get the benefit of a balistical lead-calculation anymore.
You have to manualy lead.
Estimate the distance, estimate the direction and speed of movement, fire and see where you are hitting, then correct the lead-point until you see the impacts.
The old-fashioned way

If you can do all that why not use fixed and have higher DPS, lower distro draw and a lead reticule to aim at regardless of chaff?

 

[Globusdiablo]

This thread has gone proper off road.

 

[Old Duck]

This thread has gone proper off road.

Turrets in Space Engineers offer great damage!

How's that for off the proper road?

 

[Obi Wan Naboo]

Type-10 is the only ship I would consider as a turret boat platform. NPC Fighter with fixed beam or plasma makes it even more fun.

If on a budget or just for lulz a Keelback might work too with a decent fighter. I wouldn't take it anywhere near a CZ though.

 

[Morbad]

I added an L for logic...

Well, whatever it is that's powering your ship, having everything on priority 1 when it malfunctions will cause problems.

40% output is the magic number, while taking 20% and 50% into account is likely to be relevant sooner or later.

(there used to be third kind of power plant malfunction resulting in 20% power output for 5 seconds iirc, but that no longer seems to be the case)

Been a while since I tested this since is requires the PP to be destroyed before that critical malfunction is reached, but this is the first I've heard of it being removed.

Lets face it a Vanilla Vulture is always going to struggle for power even without damage, it is the defining feature of the ship. But doing what you can to give you a theoretical chance of escape is worth doing.

There is a big difference between having everything shut off leaving you defenseless and adrift and still being able to move until the malfunction abates. It can be the difference between being shot down on the spot and coming back to win the fight.

If you can do all that why not use fixed and have higher DPS, lower distro draw and a lead reticule to aim at regardless of chaff?

Being able to fire and hit at a major deflection can greatly aid one's ability to remain evasive while delivering damage.

 

[galahad2069]

Been a while since I tested this since is requires the PP to be destroyed before that critical malfunction is reached

Well we (Barnard and I) tested it 1 or 2 months ago, he surely has the video somewhere.

 

[Morbad]

Well we (Barnard and I) tested it 1 or 2 months ago, he surely has the video somewhere.

I think I found the test you are referring to:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jARF6YETAWw


You're right, doesn't appear to be any 20% malfunction level currently, though I do wonder what happens when a zero integrity PP is hit with a pulse disruptor/scramble effect and survives. Surely an ultra-niche scenario, but I might test that later, for the sake of curiosity.

 

[galahad2069]

I think I found the test you are referring to:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jARF6YETAWw


You're right, doesn't appear to be any 20% malfunction level currently, though I do wonder what happens when a zero integrity PP is hit with a pulse disruptor/scramble effect and survives. Surely an ultra-niche scenario, but I might test that later, for the sake of curiosity.

One more thing about it I don't (but would like to) know is the integrity threshold under which 40% malfunctions can occur if the PP is hit (by any kind of weapons, I'm not talking about scramble/pulse disruptors now), and whether or not these malfunctions can happen only on further weapon hits or just randomly anytime.

 

[Morbad]

One more thing about it I don't (but would like to) know is the integrity threshold under which 40% malfunctions can occur if the PP is hit (by any kind of weapons, I'm not talking about scramble/pulse disruptors now), and whether or not these malfunctions can happen only on further weapon hits or just randomly anytime.

I'm almost completely certain that the PP cannot spontaneously malfunction without further damage/effects, irrespective of level.

I fairly confident, but far from certain, that 85% integrity is still the trigger threshold for malfunctions, but some recent anomolies have me questioning this. So I'll definitely be testing this again at some point.

One thing that adds some confusion in combat is that distributor malfunctions still give the wrong warning...they false give the notification text for a PP malfunction.

 

[galahad2069]

I'm almost completely certain that the PP cannot spontaneously malfunction without further damage/effects, irrespective of level.

I fairly confident, but far from certain, that 85% integrity is still the trigger threshold for malfunctions, but some recent anomolies have me questioning this. So I'll definitely be testing this again at some point.

One thing that adds some confusion in combat is that distributor malfunctions still give the wrong warning...they false give the notification text for a PP malfunction.

Thanks, good to know.

May I ask you to tell me your test results, if there is any?

 

[Deleted member 192138]

From what I can figure out and/or have been informed of -
When taking damage below 85% integrity there's a chance of malfunction. A malfunction on an intact power plant drops you to 40% output temporarily.
A 0 integrity power plant drops your output to 50% until it is raised above 0 integrity.
If a plant is at 0 integrity and malfunctions this will put you at 20% power output - IF it doesn't get a crit that destroys you instantly.

When we attempted to test for this we got a destruction first so it seems like an exceedingly rare event. Best way to test would be to drop a plant to 0 integrity and then use scramble spectrum on OTHER parts of the hull until a plant malfunction is achieved. Otherwise the risk of crit destruction is too high to test consistently.

In test conditions you can just look at the modules pane and it tells you what the current output is. So the information that pops up on the centre of the HUD is really irrelevant to what you see actually happen.

Being able to fire and hit at a major deflection can greatly aid one's ability to remain evasive while delivering damage.

Of course. But that's a separate argument to "turrets are bad because chaff, use gimbals instead"

 

[galahad2069]

So in other words the malfuction is always 40% - of your current power output. If you are already at 50% output level, the next malfuction will drop it to 0.5x0.4 = 20%.
But this is not a test result, at least not a result of the test we did.
The 85% integrity threshold for on-hit power plant malfunctions is also not a test result as far as I I know (it can be difficult to prove, easier to disprove maybe).

 

[Morbad]

If a plant is at 0 integrity and malfunctions this will put you at 20% power output - IF it doesn't get a crit that destroys you instantly.

Yes, this is how it used to work, though it's been a long time since I've seen that 20% output figure show up in the module pane.

When we attempted to test for this we got a destruction first so it seems like an exceedingly rare event. Best way to test would be to drop a plant to 0 integrity and then use scramble spectrum on OTHER parts of the hull until a plant malfunction is achieved. Otherwise the risk of crit destruction is too high to test consistently.

I was thinking the same thing, though to be certain there isn't some functional difference between damage and the special effect I'd want to test both.

I'm not entirely sure what the chance of destruction at 0% integrity is based on...with NPCs I usually see them pop sooner from raw volume of hits faster than raw damage, but I suspect it's based on both. Malfunctions might be the same way.

In test conditions you can just look at the modules pane and it tells you what the current output is. So the information that pops up on the centre of the HUD is really irrelevant to what you see actually happen.

Yes, it is, but a lot of observations occur outside of deliberate testing, and having the wrong error messages show up can lead to confusion.

The fist time I saw that 20% output malfunction I wasn't trying to test PP malfunction levels, someone was trying to shoot down my ship. I believe it was actually in the first PvP league when I was kiting a couple of opponents away and lost power to my thrusters (distinct from a thruster malfunction).

Spoiler

It was only in later testing that I was able to verify that 20% output stage, but it seems pretty clearly to be in effect here, as the priority 1 level I had set during that first warning was well below 40%.

May I ask you to tell me your test results, if there is any?

I'll probably try for a quick test of that 85% output level today, otherwise I won't be able to get to it until after new year's.

The 85% integrity threshold for on-hit power plant malfunctions is also not a test result as far as I I know (it can be difficult to prove, easier to disprove maybe).

I'm going to get someone to put eight c1 gimbaled MCs on an anaconda and slowly grind my vettes PP down. Should take several dozen, if not hundreds, of rounds fired per percent of integrity lost, hopefully prompting a malfunction very soon after it's possible to do so...that's the hypothesis anyway.

 

[Morbad]

Just ran the test. Had Bigmaec empty about seventeen thousand small MC rounds into my vette's PP.

Malfunctions start at 80% integrity and the chance of initiating them appears to be per hit, as I was held in a near continual state of malfunction until his ammo ran out.

Also, the module pane still isn't updating correctly...I had to manually update it until I started MRP repairs, which then allowed me to see the integrity actually count down.

Uploading a recording of the test now.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

80% is when malfunctions start happening on FSDs when neutron jumping.

Regarding modules panel - it is likely that it doesn't refresh unless triggered to do so. e.g. the comms friends list requires you to switch between tabs or exit/re-enter the comms panel to refresh when a friend is coming online, checking for new CMDRs in history etc.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

I can't delete my own posts? That's dumb.