Update 7 Breaking what was working well.

Kotoku

Kotoku
Úlfhéðnar said:
Actually not really. It's worse that the general drops are horrendously low and that you need quiet a lot of mats. That you actually have to take care to acquire the materials isn't the really problem. The amount of materials and the low chance to get them IS.
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That's also part of it.

What it is about systems you don't understand?

Every single element is a grind, with some small concessions with reliable drops (Dav's Hope, Crystal Shards, Some HGE's systems etc) that they also randomly nerf just to make things more grindy. eg: Crystal shards are now nerfed in Odyssey, and the replacement system significantly less reliable and time wasting.

Added up it's all a ridiculous time-wasting grind designed to purely boost "user engagement" metrics instead of provide actual enjoyable gameplay, but that also doesn't lessen the ridiculous time-wasting grind of each individual activity.

They are all part of the grind.

Which they doubled down in with Odyssey engineering for suits and weapons. So it truly is an Odyssey. A grind Odyssey.
 
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Kotoku

Kotoku
BadCoffee said:
Well, we complained about nothing to do during long data downloads, so rather than shorten the data downloads they made them illegal. So now you either take extra time to turn the alarm off first or you have to shoot every guard in the settlement while downloading.

I suspect next will be making assets traceable the same as goods, so the guards go all kill kill kill if they scan you and find a circuit switch.
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It makes me wonder what the "special criteria" questions are that they use when interviewing designers for Elite.

Do you hate fun?
Do you hate gameplay?
Do you like grind?
Can you describe a gameplay mechanic that would increase user engagement metrics? It doesn't have to be fun, so don't worry about that!

Aside: my personal favorite here is the malicious programming that's been used to generate HGE's in rare drops like Pharmaceutical Isolator HGE systems (outbreak) at distances from 250K+L ls to 500K ls ++. Even if you take the punt to track one down with a 15 minute SC, it turns they can't even reward you with the PI's (or equally rare) for doing that. Even the number of them is crap. It's typically some other lower grade mat. A double bait n' switch. I tested this, just to be sure, multiple times. (see pic)
20210922235555_1a.jpg

My expectations were low, but I really didn't expect them to be this low. SMH. Upshot: They deliberately generate HGE's at huge distances, yet they can't even go the extra mile for people that take the challenge of hauling their butz out there and reward them with an extra bonus. It's just a lonely sad trombone when you get there, topped off with a big FU. But it generates fantastic "engagement metrics". (sic). I also saw another HGE at extreme range (see pic) where you couldn't even reach it in time at over 1100C. What is the point of even generating them at these distances?
20210923000345_1a.jpg


I'm not describing anything new here, obviously, as it's well documented that "THE GRIND" has been a long-standing complaint from many players, and that FDev has zero interest in addressing it. It's a core design philosophy to double down on grind, not gameplay.
 
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photomankc

photomankc
Ian Skippy said:
Well, that one makes sense to me. They see on the panel someone is downloading stuff, they know the range is about a few meter and they can clearly see only one guy, a heavily armed stranger, is standing in range.

Don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to come to the logical conclusion. It also makes perfect gameplay sense.

What should happen is:
1) Make data more deterministic. So all military basis in state X have SDP in CMD buildings.
2) Cut the superfluous data.
3) Make data in Sec0 ports legal to download.

Now its challenging, rewarding and non-random to get the hard bits, and easy to get the easy bits. Fun! No clue why FD insists on random, frustrating and tedious. And it boggles my mind they'd double down on that when the game is in such a state and the community is already on edge. Doubt anyone at FD will ever explain why they think this is good game design, but given they dont play this themselves suggests they dont think its fun themselves either.
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No idea what they are thinking. Dont much care anymore either. If after 4 months of “just play the game” I still don’t have the data i need to do one freaking upgrade I want, I simply can’t manage anymore $&?@s to give.
 

kushan

kushan
Who made this decision? Are they trying to drive people off so they can shut the servers down and have done with it?
 

DJ007

DJ007
Kotoku said:
It makes me wonder what the "special criteria" questions are that they use when interviewing designers for Elite.

Do you hate fun?
Do you hate gameplay?
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@Kotoku Thanks for making me sploosh my cider out! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

If this were true I'd love to watch the awkward cctv of those interview candidates!
 

Cosmo Bozo

Cosmo Bozo
Úlfhéðnar said:
I don't believe it. They actually listened to feedback? What is this a miracle?
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To be fair they often do listen to feedback on really unpopular changes, like this or the 1 second pause they put in when stealing stuff.....

But you have to wonder what were they thinking of in the first place?

Having spent a good portion of todays play stood idle by data ports rather than actually playing, I welcome the reduction in downlaod times.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Cosmo Bozo said:
But you have to wonder what were they thinking of in the first place?
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This is the type of stuff I wish they'd talk about - it was a deliberate change to make downloading illegal - so why? What were they trying to achieve? I'd be interested to know and maybe we could come up with some ways to achieve the same goal.

At the moment I can't think of any reason why they changed it in the first place 🤷‍♀️
 

Mogen Teras

M
Frillop Freyraum said:
Can't they just hire a professional game designer who knows what s/he is doing?
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I'd laugh at this as a joke if it wasn't so true. I know we are all trying to go easy on the actual staff who do this as their 9-5, but in the end it's still a product we are paying for that we expect to work properly. And it continues to seem as though FDev's staff just...aren't up to it.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Ian Skippy said:
Well, that one makes sense to me. They see on the panel someone is downloading stuff, they know the range is about a few meter and they can clearly see only one guy, a heavily armed stranger, is standing in range.

Don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to come to the logical conclusion. It also makes perfect gameplay sense.

What should happen is:
1) Make data more deterministic. So all military basis in state X have SDP in CMD buildings.
2) Cut the superfluous data.
3) Make data in Sec0 ports legal to download.

Now its challenging, rewarding and non-random to get the hard bits, and easy to get the easy bits. Fun! No clue why FD insists on random, frustrating and tedious. And it boggles my mind they'd double down on that when the game is in such a state and the community is already on edge. Doubt anyone at FD will ever explain why they think this is good game design, but given they dont play this themselves suggests they dont think its fun themselves either.
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Imagine if there was a minigame that allowed you to mine the data you were looking for, with difficulty based on rarity.

Or instead we can just have the game as designed by OP, where strange man just waltzes into strange building and starts stealing stuff while the NPCs are too busy drooling on themselves to notice.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Screemonster said:
To get 2 notoriety you need to kill like 8 people. If you scan them for bounties first you get no notoriety at all for whacking them (just be careful nobody sees you do it).

Seriously, the level of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM over crime from people on these forums only tells me all y'all are really bad at doing crimes.
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Notoriety used to be some weird mechanic for Evil Gankers. Consequences for actions was something supposed to happen to other people.
vindelanos said:
Imagine if there was a minigame that allowed you to mine the data you were looking for, with difficulty based on rarity.

Or instead we can just have the game as designed by OP, where strange man just waltzes into strange building and starts stealing stuff while the NPCs are too busy drooling on themselves to notice.
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It's weirder even when you realize just how many examples there are of 'hacking' in computer games. And somehow FD failed to learn anything from any of them, and instead introduced a wildly inappropriate mini-game for bio signals.

Combined with some other weird decisions it often feels like the FD game designers not only do not play ED, but haven't played a game since 1994 in general.

Baffling.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Ian Skippy said:
Combined with some other weird decisions it often feels like the FD game designers not only do not play ED, but haven't played a game since 1994 in general.
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It makes me feel badly, because I am definitely not the guy to pull some fun new innovative gameplay design out of my hat. When it comes to art, I am one of the least creative people you'd ever want to meet. But man do I expect more from a video game company.

I mean, that's why I'm paying them - because my own imagination isn't good enough. I expect theirs to fill the gap.
 

Freddie Sparkles Jnr

Freddie Sparkles Jnr
The current 7 update thread and the updated patch 7.1 thread remind me of a forum thread of a game in alpha testing totalling 8 months of feedback from players but condensed into 24 hours. At this point it's not even humorous. If it wasn't for Sally's efforts of trying to liaise between developers and what's left of the community, I feel the atmosphere would certainly be extremely hostile.
 
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