Update bugs, political hyperbole and upsetting new content...

Greetings fellow Commanders. Before I begin what will be a bit of a rant I would like to state that my Combat, Trade and Exploration ranks are Master, Broker and Ranger respectively. I only mention this to establish that I have considerable experience in every aspect of the game, and have at least dabbled in every major occupation in the galaxy. I also have not had strong enough internet to feel comfortable coming into open so all of my play experience has been in solo, and for my part no less enjoyable even with the lack of player interaction. With that being said, I would like to express a few....concerns.

1. Pirating
I took up the official title of galactic pirate shortly before the Beyond update took place. Bought myself a Python, geared up with all the necessary equipment, and hit the shipping lanes. Took me a few days to get the hang of things, and I lucked out finding a high pop Ag economy in boom in an anarchy system. Took a while longer to perfect the tactic of disabling the ship without destroying it, but eventually I was flying back to my black market contact with my Python loaded with low temp diamonds, my trade rank was rapidly climbing, and my bank account was happy.

Then Beyond happened. All of a sudden, piracy anywhere other than in an Anarchy system is essentially impossible due to ATR. Because I only play in solo, any ship I kill in self defense or on accident builds my notoriety, but for some reason the one point reduction for every two hours in game doesnt apply in solo, so I had maxed my notoriety in a half hour of undermining with no way of reducing it. And my biggest complaint so far: module sniping an npc's power plant no longer seems to disable their ship. I'm not going to post videos or pictures since I don't have any and other Commanders have already posted more than enough video evidence that this is indeed an issue. And all FDev members on here can say is "We will pass this report on for investigation?" And here we have the political hyperbole. The investigation is done. The players have spoken, and presented the necessary evidence. There is either a bug in the game, or something has been rewritten in the game that the players were not informed of. Which is it?

2. Engineers
As I began to progress through combat rank Expert and into Master, I began to realise that what gives players that extra edge in PvP was taking the extra (rather long) amount of time required to engineer every module possible on their ship. This to me was brilliant, even though I never came into open play. It gave me something to strive for, something that told me even though I was ranked Master and could handle most any NPC combatant with ease, coming into PvP would be another ball game entirely and I would need to be heavily engineered and prepared if I wanted to survive in open. I was ok with this.

Then Beyond happened. Engineers can now be accessed remotely, and their materials can be found at some trade markets. While I appreciate the ease of access to engineers that means I no longer have to fly the ship I want to modify (which potentially has an extremely bad FSD range) all the way to the engineer's shop, I feel like these changes have made engineering less of a pretigious and pointed advantage, and more of just another general step in upgrading a new ship.

3. Thargoids
The videos of the first contact with Thargoids were what really got me determined to make it over the massive learning curve of this game. I had already played off and on, but the now simple act of docking my ship was too much of a hassle back then to get any real enjoyment out of the game, but when the Thargoids happened I was determined to really learn this game and delve into it, and by golly I did. A month or so ago I assisted in the evacuation of Benjamin's Rest in 42 n Persei, being personally responsible for transporting over 1000 survivors off of the station and assisting in the recovery of escape pods and personal effects. I have become immersed in the beautiful galaxy that Frontier has given us, and was as giddy as a schoolboy over the possible turns that the story of the Thargoids could take. Anticipation and speculation ran high. Thargoid aggression inched closer and closer to populated space, and as per my last check they have attacked in systems less than 20ly away from the lower edge of the bubble. What would they do next? Where will they go? What is their purpose? What are they after? So many questions and theories....can we communicate with them in some way? Are their ships piloted, or are they one full organic life form? I have been swept up in the speculation and experimentation I have seen from other players, and the presence of an alien race in this game made it even more immense and mind blowing.

Then....you guessed it....Beyond happened. The only thing that has been given to the players by FDev is weapons. Combat ships. Combat technology. Now, with the introduction of the Guardian blueprints, it seems to me as if Frontier is writing their own story for the players to have, instead of allowing the players to work out the story for themselves. Has fighting done anything to slow the Thargoids progression towards the core systems? My fellow Commanders, when in sci fi history has humanity been able to overcome an alien invasion by sheer force alone? Why does it seem as if Frontier is trying to take away our open build-your-own story galaxy and replace it with a fantasy of their own (which by the way, for anyone familiar with the Stargate franchise: Guardian/Thargoids=Ancients/Wraith) that has already been played out in damn near every sci fi game, tv series and movie ever created about an alien war. This is our galaxy, Commanders. We should be allowed to live it the way we want, free of bugs, advanced SWAT teams (lets be honest...that's all ATR is) and formed and regulated storylines.
 
2. Engineers
Since the Engineers have come out, the game has been progressing so that visiting them and gaining their favors is a necessity and not a luxury. Player power creep means that NPCs have to get tougher; NPC power creep means that all players have to get tougher. I don't know that I'm thrilled about that personally, but it does seem like it's a thing. I thought the engineers would be a trade-off making exotic builds possible, but there is a clear benefit to most engineering mods such that it's the final stage of getting your ship in shape to handle the increasing odds. Revamping the engineering system seems about taking the nasty edge off the process. I didn't get to try anything out in the beta and I'm just getting an idea of the changes in game now.

3. Thargoids
I don't have the game stats to speak with certainty myself, but perhaps FDev gathered the statistics on player interaction with Thargoids and found that combat was the overwhelming majority? Perhaps the narrative dictates that combat is the path chosen by the powers that be? Players are only a portion of the Pilots Federation which itself is one among many powers in the human galaxy. Not trying to make excuses here, just trying to make sense of the very large story myself.


Best of luck to you out there.
 
Greetings fellow Commanders. Before I begin what will be a bit of a rant I would like to state that my Combat, Trade and Exploration ranks are Master, Broker and Ranger respectively. I only mention this to establish that I have considerable experience in every aspect of the game

Considerable indeed. Love your nick BTW. And welcome back to the forums.
 
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We are not getting a dynamic, even driven galaxy that supports personalized stories and emergent game play. Whatever FDEV CLAIM, that simply isnt happening. Because if it were, development on the mechanics to support it would have at least STARTED by now. And yets its been four YEARS, and we have...Grind. And more Grind. Instead of dynamic systems and emergent opportunities.

FDEV want a B Movie sci fi story with forced combat as the only interaction. Probably because its the only thing the under developed tech can support. Or because it requires the least amount of effort to develop. Whichever is the case, we get what they give us, play it they way they determine or miss out on content. "Play Your Way" and "Blaze your own Trail" are dead. Engineers announced their execution, and Thargoids and Guardian Grind cemented it.

Elite is no longer a Sandbox experience. Its a linear, narrative game like every AAA flop of the past few years. Same bad writing, same forced approach. Same one size fits all experience. Same low effort, maximum grind, addiction over fun dev approach.
 
While you 'may' have valid points in comment above it was also brought up by many in thee very forums about the 'lack' of story in the background. So the Thergoids were brought in, assumedly. And soon the Guardians. Frontier has to cater to more than a handful of players in their attempt to balance ED. They have to try and look at a bigger picture here.

No game, that I know of, has been created that catered to all. And unless you've had some experience at programming it's hard to understand that you can't just change things on a whim. Just squishing bugs is time consuming as we've all seen.

It's unfortunate that some like yourself, who've enjoyed the game up till now find so much fault in a game that is still progressing. An ideal game would indeed be taylored to each of our desires but not realistic.

Hopefully you'll be able to adjust and overcome things, as you have before, and continue to enjoy the game. Here's hoping ...

Safe flying and good hunting to you ...

Chief
 
The only thing that has been given to the players by FDev is weapons.


I will only react to this one point.
I think it is an important point.

I think you are right. I would like to see other means of interaction with Thargoids now. Perhaps FDev feels it is too early for that.
For now we only can refrain from aggression against the Thargoids. That is what I do.

There is however another comparable problem that I noticed when I saw the first interactions with the new Guardian bases.
You need to shoot at structures to get things done. I cannot imagine any alien race to design their advanced technology in such a way that you have to shoot stuff with combat weapons to solve puzzles.

I think we really need other tools now, so we can interact in a way that makes more sense.
Of course the options are limited as we cannot yet leave our vehicles.
But perhaps we might use specialized limpet drones to decode and activate Guardian stuff.
 
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I agree on the Thargoid point, rather than actually developing the core mechanics that give ED its story, they have instead bolted on a completely dev controlled ancillary story to keep players amused. They have rushed out a barebones set of mechanics in this attempt to introduce "story", but in doing so seem to have forgotten that they were developing an open world game. Open world games can have stories, you just have to look at the likes of Dwarf Fortress, but it requires a fair amount of coding to do; when done properly though, the game wouldn't require a story writer as the story would write itself. Sometimes, a particularly unique concept won't be thrown out by the procedural generator and must be handcrafted, but once that is done then it should be written into the main story algorithms rather than requiring continual babysitting by FD.

That's what FDs role should always be, introduce a new concept themselves then hand that new concept over to the galaxy at large to work with so that it adds a permanent extra bit of ever-evolving variety to the galaxy, rather than a fixed point that requires continual developer overriding in order to do anything.

This is quite clear with Colonia. To expect any procedural system to throw out something like Jacques station would be unreasonable, so adding in Jacques itself by hand is fine. However, Colonia itself has since then simply become FDs own little handcrafted garden, rather than being a continual development on the game and players' part.

This continues with the Thargoids, their very existence can't be procedurally introduced via some kind of alien generator algorithm, but their behaviour can be. Rather than making the Thargoids do different things every patch and hand picking where they are going and what they are doing, past the initial reveal the Thargoids should have been controlled via a BGS script. Even the various introductions relating to Thargoids such as Aegis were simply thrown in directly, rather than drawing from the current plot of the game and weaving them into the galaxy at large.
 
Concerning Thargoids, There are two sets of xeno decals for ships in the store.
Xeno hunters and Xeno friends. I'm not sure how long they've been there, I only noticed them when I was tarting up the chieftain.

It does give me hope there may be some way to interact with them other than pew-pew, up until now that's about all we've got. All these alien tech weapons and the new combat vessels are pointing towards war obviously, I'm just hoping diplomatic efforts for peace have some room in the game. That's a more interesting RP scenario for me personally.

If it comes down to a factional thing ie Thargs versus Guardians versus Humans, of course my first priority is for my fellow human beings, but if I'm asked to take sides with the aliens, although I have very little to go on at the moment, I'm leaning towards the Thargoid side since Thargoid ships and drones are non-hostile if you don't have their stuff and you don't provoke them, whereas Guardian drones are hostile from the moment they spot you.

No idea what this third group is about (the little thargs), as you say there's just not enough info to go on yet.

As to the story and how tightly defined it is, how much agency we actually have to drive the story in a particular direction is anyone's guess right now. It may come down to humanity picking a side, war may not be able to averted in any event. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
It's hard. Players want more complicated, in depth content (whatever that is, as its rarely explained) in a reasonable time frame that is relevant to their own playstyle. It's a lot of work on the fly and I imagine what's in game has taken a lot of time and effort.

Are there many other games doing anything similar with live storytelling content?
 
It's hard. Players want more complicated, in depth content (whatever that is, as its rarely explained) in a reasonable time frame that is relevant to their own playstyle. It's a lot of work on the fly and I imagine what's in game has taken a lot of time and effort.

Are there many other games doing anything similar with live storytelling content?

Reasonable time frame? The game has been live for THREE YEARS. And fdve have in that time not even TRIED to add either depth or meanjngful interaction. Just pew pew and Grind.

Please. They have had ample time. They just havent used it wisely.
 
1. Pirating
2. Engineers

so you dislike pirating getting more difficult, and engineering grind getting easier? i hope you realize this comes across as your personal preference much more than a thoughtful and rational critique.

how engineering is supposed to be a 'challenge' and reason for 'prestige' is beyond me ... unless you're testing player's time waste capability and boredom resistance.

3. Thargoids

sorry to hear your expectations shattered, man. if you'd been around from the start you would have known how little base they had ...

We are not getting a dynamic, even driven galaxy that supports personalized stories and emergent game play. Whatever FDEV CLAIM, that simply isnt happening. Because if it were, development on the mechanics to support it would have at least STARTED by now. And yets its been four YEARS, and we have...Grind. And more Grind. Instead of dynamic systems and emergent opportunities.

FDEV want a B Movie sci fi story with forced combat as the only interaction. Probably because its the only thing the under developed tech can support. Or because it requires the least amount of effort to develop. Whichever is the case, we get what they give us, play it they way they determine or miss out on content. "Play Your Way" and "Blaze your own Trail" are dead. Engineers announced their execution, and Thargoids and Guardian Grind cemented it.

Elite is no longer a Sandbox experience. Its a linear, narrative game like every AAA flop of the past few years. Same bad writing, same forced approach. Same one size fits all experience. Same low effort, maximum grind, addiction over fun dev approach.

blunt, somewhat crude, but thorough diagnostic.

except it still is a sandbox experience. really don't know how they could manage to spoil that. the much announced and yet to be seen narrative was an extra anyway, many players never gave a damn for it and have always played their own story.
 
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Reasonable time frame? The game has been live for THREE YEARS. And fdve have in that time not even TRIED to add either depth or meanjngful interaction. Just pew pew and Grind.

Please. They have had ample time. They just havent used it wisely.

I'm pretty sure they've not all been working on this part of the game for three years. That's not how games design works. Perhaps you could give a detailed account of what they should have done?
 
To be clear, there's stuff I don't like. But I'm not naive enough to believe that knitting together various parts of a meandering, technically challenging game, on time and making it suit everyone who is playing as being an easy thing.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's lots of better examples of live development games of a vaguely similar type attempting to do overarching storylines whilst featuring complex in depth game mechanics that enable a variety of playstyles to partake at the same time. All whilst adding on the base game with numerous other features and improvements.
 
I'm pretty sure they've not all been working on this part of the game for three years. That's not how games design works. Perhaps you could give a detailed account of what they should have done?

What they should have done, is prioritize systems that lead to dynamic events, and emergent game play. Instead, they prioritized addiction triggering RNG grind over game play.

Thats a very telling decision.

Three years is PLENTY of time to develop the beginnings of the game Braben promised. The problem is NOT a lack of time. The problem is a lack of EFFORT.
 
1. Pirating
...snip...

Then Beyond happened. All of a sudden, piracy anywhere other than in an Anarchy system is essentially impossible due to ATR. Because I only play in solo, any ship I kill in self defense or on accident builds my notoriety, but for some reason the one point reduction for every two hours in game doesnt apply in solo, so I had maxed my notoriety in a half hour of undermining with no way of reducing it. And my biggest complaint so far: module sniping an npc's power plant no longer seems to disable their ship. I'm not going to post videos or pictures since I don't have any and other Commanders have already posted more than enough video evidence that this is indeed an issue. And all FDev members on here can say is "We will pass this report on for investigation?" And here we have the political hyperbole. The investigation is done. The players have spoken, and presented the necessary evidence. There is either a bug in the game, or something has been rewritten in the game that the players were not informed of. Which is it?
Umm, the ATR and making criminal activity difficult in High-security systems is reasonable and a good thing. What remains to be seen is whether it's correctly balanced yet. Your points on notoriety are interesting, hopefully a bug, but I wouldn't put it past FD to miss that.

3. Thargoids
...snip...

Then....you guessed it....Beyond happened. The only thing that has been given to the players by FDev is weapons. Combat ships. Combat technology. Now, with the introduction of the Guardian blueprints, it seems to me as if Frontier is writing their own story for the players to have, instead of allowing the players to work out the story for themselves. Has fighting done anything to slow the Thargoids progression towards the core systems?...snip
Agreed, Angry Thargoid Thursday is not a dynamic way to propel story. Of course, it appears FD want a chokehold grip on the overall story direction...sort of, so that's what we get.

What actually brought me to post was your username. Have you watched many player videos of Elite? From your (one and only so far) post, you appear to have a very different playstyle (Solo only, no Elite ranks, only starting engineering) from a particularly well known wizard. Kinda strange, but the name is well known enough that anyone can use it. You also have enough forum knowledge to at least have been a lurker before posting this.

My question then is really this: are you Besieger? If not, welcome to the (salty) world of FD forums! Otherwise.... really dude?
 
The only player videos I have really ever watched were Mr Myu and Obsidian Ant. I have been a lurker for a bit, have used them mostly as a search and information database along with EDDB during my travels. My Commander tag (currently) is Andrestes. A friend of mine introduced me to the game on his profile, my irl nickname though is Potter so its kinda a general tag I use.
 
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