Update today and ALL keybindings gone AGAIN..... had enough

project23

P
I have a rather convoluted setup of the following -> thrustmaster FCS throttle with pedals, and t16000m, a saitek left hand stick, and two midi controllers (lpd8 and novation launchpad) rigged with vjoy and to display gamestate indicators.

Part of 'setting up' each session, is i need to run my own code for the midi, and thrustmaster target software for the rest.

The reason I mention all this, is that I have to jump through some real weird witchcraft hoops in order to get working. After every major update this rain-dance has typically changed... Right now I have to:

Run my own code
Run TARGET
Boot into ED:O

At this point I have no controls other than mouse, even though my keybindings are all there in the directory. I then have to...

Stop TARGET
Start TARGET
Alt+Tab back to EDO to try - still mouse only
Stop TARGET
Start TARGET
Alt+Tab back to EDO to try - still mouse only
Stop TARGET
Start TARGET

At which point miraculously EVERYTHING will work. Without fail it's three times I need to restart the TARGET script (which as far as EDO is concerned, is the same as plugging another controller in). Why it takes three times when everything else is the same I have no idea.

In addition to this, despite my midi setup being assigned to unique vjoy controllers each time, i'll routinely find that they're mixed up within ED. The REAL weird thing with this, is that if i simply go and re-assign one of the 'confused' buttons, they'll ALL suddenly work as intended.

You get so used to this routine that it just takes a few seconds each launch.

The point is - something is REALLY mixed up in ED with regards to tracking controllers and bindings. When you get something working, you have to replicate the EXACT conditions to have it work again. I am guessing each time I run TARGET, some identifier associated with the virtual device is changed, and it just so happens that once upon a time it was in this configuration that I setup my key-bindings.

I never have any such issues in other games, like KSP or IL-2. For what its worth I recommend doing things like unplugging controllers and reinserting them with the game running, and then checking for 'CUSTOM' in the drop down.

It's a bloody mess, but I guess we enjoy the pain :D
 

GJ51

GJ51
hems303 said:
Hi.... Just the word 'Custom' in the file text?
EDIT: lol!!! Just opened the StartPreset.start file and found FOUR instances of the word 'CUSTOM' in capitals..... I'm thinking another one won't help...lol
Click to expand...
Horizons - 1 "CUSTOM"

Oddity -

"CUSTOM"
"CUSTOM"
"CUSTOM"
"CUSTOM"

Edit the the file before loading.
 

Lord Rak

L
hems303 said:
My question to Frontier is this: With build Odyssey 4.0.0.401 Why does the CUSTOM Keybindings option no longer appear in Options.... just vanished. My carefully archived keybindings folder contents HAS ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT ON BINDINGS WHATSOEVER.

If you think I am going to rebuild ALL my keybindings EVERY damn time I want to play I'm not (N.B. I do backup my bindings but in this case they made no difference.)

Question to anyone with the knowledge... DO ODYSSEY KEYBINDINGS LIVE IN SOME OTHER FOLDER AS OPPOSED TO HORIZONS?????
Click to expand...
When you go to Options in game and Controlls use preset Custom and set your keys the way you like it. Do not choose different preset then Custom, if you Edit existing Preset every time game is updated it will rest that Preset to Default. Every time there is Update it reinstalling your whole game.
 
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Gorrister

Gorrister
hems303 said:
Absolutely correct! Bang On!. Affirmative! o7....... the word custom now does not appear in the options list.... see my screen shot posted above.... It's got me beat I can tell you.
Click to expand...
have you tried to give it another name?
i think "custom" is overwritten regulary.
 

Gorrister

Gorrister
better change your file name to something other than custom name it hemsbindings, or something, then go into the file with an editor and change the name in the second line accordingly.
it stays this way in your dropdown menu.
the startpreset just tells the game what to start as standard, you can change the names here also.
 

Monk

Monk
[VR] here_it_comes said:
ED's issues with forgetting user bindings is particularly egregious considering both how long it's been an issue and how many bindings ED has.

This really should have been solved at least half a decade ago. Users shouldn't have to make backup files in anticipation of a program wiping out their settings.
Click to expand...
Never been an issue for me either. I think it may have to do with being installed in the same place as I had it for 1.0. I have backups but never needed them.
 

Valorin

Valorin
I'd really love to know what it is with the keybindings...
Mine never got killed in more than five years. For others it's every other update. Strange.
 

Deleted member 182079

D

Valorin

Valorin
ObiW said:
I've done this and never had binding issues ever again since.
Click to expand...
I once had to unplug my hotas because it was messing with another game and forgot to plug it back in for Elite. Naturally my bindings didn't show, but when I restarted it with hotas connected, they were back.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Valorin said:
I once had to unplug my hotas because it was messing with another game and forgot to plug it back in for Elite. Naturally my bindings didn't show, but when I restarted it with hotas connected, they were back.
Click to expand...
I remember messing up my customs file because I switched input methods (game seems to confuse wireless Vs wired Xbox controller - my batteries ran out and I plugged it in via USB). That triggered me to read up on the issue and came across manually copying and renaming avoids this issue.
 

Valorin

Valorin
ObiW said:
I remember messing up my customs file because I switched input methods (game seems to confuse wireless Vs wired Xbox controller - my batteries ran out and I plugged it in via USB). That triggered me to read up on the issue and came across manually copying and renaming avoids this issue.
Click to expand...
There was something about the input device's ID in the binding file.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Valorin said:
There was something about the input device's ID in the binding file.
Click to expand...
Could be and the "losing" of keybinds could also happen if you have a different device connected and change just one setting - game uses the CUSTOM file as default so if you used that for your binds the old settings would be gone. That's how I remember it anyways.
 

Alien

Alien
[MEOW] babelfisch said:
I guess it's a bit unfair because I only changed a few binds from the preset, rebinding would take less than 2 minutes. Others changed everything and they need to spend hours doing all that again...
Click to expand...
When I have to redo my keybinds, I change what I need at that moment.
Since Odyssey, I have made backups because switching back and forth to Horizons now wipes your keybinds.
 

Darkman Returns

Darkman Returns
I never had this problem in ED... until Odyssey. Even after taking the Strontium Dog route renaming my keyfiles and deleting the rest I still have an intermittent issue where I have to go into the Bindings menu to get them to work, even though they are shown correctly in that menu and I can just CANCEL back out without making any changes. It's as if you sometimes have to wake them up.

And no, I haven't been back to Horizons for weeks, so it's not that.
 

SpocksOddSocks

SpocksOddSocks
I've never completely lost my bindings, but this time, it seems to have reverted to the controls I'd setup during Alpha (I'd only made a few minor changes since then).

I have had the custom settings disappear off the list a couple of times, but both were due to a controller being unplugged. In fact, once, it was just that I'd ended up connecting my hotas to the opposite USB ports to usual.
 
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Walter2

Walter2
project23 said:
I have a rather convoluted setup of the following -> thrustmaster FCS throttle with pedals, and t16000m, a saitek left hand stick, and two midi controllers (lpd8 and novation launchpad) rigged with vjoy and to display gamestate indicators.

Part of 'setting up' each session, is i need to run my own code for the midi, and thrustmaster target software for the rest.

The reason I mention all this, is that I have to jump through some real weird witchcraft hoops in order to get working.
Click to expand...
I have CH Products throttle and stick, which came with a management program that combines the two devices so ED sees just one and each button has a unique ID. To make it work in Win 10 one must first run Microsoft Store(!) and close it, then the CH Management tool and close it before launching ED.
I believe ED had problems in the early days distinguishing USB devices.

who? said:
. . . it's particularly annoying given a) how many key bindings there are. And b) how they're often listed as: JOY1...JOY30 etc. So screenshots of the binding screen isn't really that helpful either when rebuilding the bindings.
Click to expand...
When Odyssey launched I took the opportunity to rebind and refine my bindings, so now I know that I use Joy 2 for Yaw - it's just that now I don't know which of the two Joy 2s.
This is really annoying because the XML in the bindings file shows that ED can tell the difference -obviously - so the bindings setup software just doesn't bother to tell me which even though it knows.

I suspect that many of the problems with bindings are down to a legacy system that has limited flexibility to be updated because every user would have to rebuild the file (although the remodelled UI in Odyssey is an improvement). So we are probably stuck with a modal model in which the modes are not efficiently blackboxed (switch controls are not isolated) and identical functionality has to be set up a number of times (controls in the galaxy map and at least two cameras).

I know that bindings files have been knocked out during updates right from the beginning (I'm one of the lucky ones - just had two losses), but I can't help thinking that an overhaul with the benefit of hindsight would improve things immeasurably. But it's just another facet of ED that needs attention.

Apologies to @hems303 for the diversion.
 

project23

P
Walter2 said:
I have CH Products throttle and stick, which came with a management program that combines the two devices so ED sees just one and each button has a unique ID. To make it work in Win 10 one must first run Microsoft Store(!) and close it, then the CH Management tool and close it before launching ED. I believe ED had problems in the early days distinguishing USB devices.
Click to expand...

EDIT: Yeah that CH Products software sounds very similar to my thrustmaster TARGET software. I use it because I think there is a limit on number of devices in one of the games i play? It could well be ED, but may be IL2, I can't remember. But yeah combining the throttle and the stick helps, and lets me adjust my curves etc too.

Yeah, I mean now that I think about it I don't think i've ever had ED actually remove my bindings. What happens is they get screwed up confusing identically named buttons across multiple input devices, or they just don't work at all unless I figure out this seasons ritual requirements. It can certainly look like they've been removed when the 'custom' option is completely missing, and all your devices are plugged in as they should be.

Like you say, ED should know the difference between each device. I can only think that those identifiers that ED relies on are not as static as they may think. Or perhaps ED is looking for a couple of different identifiers, and one of them is changeable. Or maybe ED doesn't register device connection as often as it does.

Interestingly, when using opentrack with my headset, ED just WORKS. All of the time. Whether I connect it up and start it with the game running, or start it before, or don't start it at all - head tracking just works, and doesn't conflict with or mess with my bindings whatsoever.

I should add that prior to jumping through the hoops to get ED to register, the devices DO work in the sense that I can bind them. So it really does LOOK for all the world that the bindings have been removed. It's certainly not a system that keeps mitigation of users rage at heart.
 
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