Ruin? Really? Yet, those others would happily ruin your own? Maybe that is why I choose to do my own thing in PG - other players (not in one's own group of friends) are way too entitled, surely?i dont like to be told how to play either, but that doesnt mean i will use that freedom to deliberately ruin someone else fun.
Using AX Fighters - An Expert's Perspective
- Thread starter DemiserofD
- Start date
You need to fatten the "expert's opinion" in the thread title to underline the importance of this opinion and how inferior and unworthy the rest of the forum's feedback is.
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Have FD chimed in on this recently? Something as simple as "that bug is still on going and we do not have a fix in place yet so for now be aware the SLF will break the game for some people"
OR
That was an issue however we worked on it and as far as we know it was fixed in 14.x and IF it is still broken please put in new tickets for us to look at?
either way it is an FD thing and i dont think players should be forced to police what features of the game should be used or not. FD need to own it.
Of course not, there is little said about anything any more.
Although there is 'Balance' added to the war today, Orthrus Interceptors have been made more financially attractive to blow up, and the remainder of the game has been left 'as-is'.
I've played using SLFs in a group with no negative effect - perhaps it is different in open with a huge number of players in the instance - or old prejudice still reigns supreme.
As I understand it, AXI still asks people not to launch fighters. I assume they do this because there is some factual basis to fighters screwing with the netcode, and they honestly just want to avoid rubberbanding and people getting dropped.
As for using fighters, once you've witnessed CMDR Kate take down 3 Cyclops and a Medusa with a DBS, it becomes very hard to make a case for SLFs being anything more than a waste of an internal slot.
i still havent even seen one of those yet.. i havent done a huge amount of thargoid shizzle (i kept away from it till recently) but i must have done 15hrs or more of fighting them.
It certainly was obviously bugged in the past - even in a group. Which is the reason I phrased my comment in the way I did.
I've not, and being bluntly honest, nor am I likely to see such. But that is a personal preference.
They are fun for a while - although I'd hazard a guess are little more than cannon-fodder in AX combat.
Allegedly they render Guardian enhanced weapons useless, so a player would need human developed AX weapons to attack them.
I did a few sessions of Thargoid combat, nipped into the Maelstrom to get the stuff needed to unlock the Caustic Sinks, but have not been interested enough to continue the 'good fight' and have used my play time for other things of interest. Maybe I'll revisit the Thargoid war when on-foot action is provided.
It's pretty spicy stuff. Very nsfw.
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She kills them all. Easily.
I still have no motivation to watch, sorry...
It's pretty spicy stuff. Very nsfw.
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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
She kills them all. Easily.
(Fortunately, I gave up work 9 years ago, it was even worse for me than smoking, (which I gave up 7 years ago) I considered...)
As the person who's currently running the slf testing project on the axi discord, the main reason is because it's very difficult to actually prove one way or the other if a bug regarding instancing still exists. All things considered, it's almost certainly wiser to be better safe than sorry, at least until we can get a large scale rigorous test put together. But that means getting large numbers of players with fighters in the same instance, which is no small feat.
Multigoid videos are kind of a bad example, however. The large number of swarms is basically a perfect storm for being a bad place to use an slf. If it were done on a planet surface, however, then using a fighter could easily accelerate things quite a bit. For example, taking down the shields dramatically faster than they go down on their own, or exerting cyclopses or basilisks before you even come around to them.
That said, the more skilled you become as a pilot, the less inherently useful they become. They are basically equally powerful regardless of player skill. On the flip side, the more difficult the thargoid, the more useful they become. For example, I could not at all exert a Medusa with three enhanced ax multi cannons, but by throwing a fighter on, I could quite easily. A player with a guardian fighter could very reasonably kill a Medusa using only gimbled ax multicannons, and if that doesn't demonstrate their power, I don't know what does.
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Did an ax instance and someone popped out their slf. No issues. Went from beginning to end + hydras. In open.
This is fascinating. I know that just raw enhanced AX multis can mop the floor with scouts and exert and bring down a Cyclops, but I've been looking for ways to expand their usage to larger xeno targets. I assume the Guardian fighter in question would be the Lance?
Literally the only reason I haven't done any testing with SLFs against Thargoids is that I don't really fly ships that can fit a bay. DBX, Chief and Phantom don't have the option to launch fighters, so it's enhanced AX multis for threat 3s, 4s, and 5s, and conventional Guardian flak/flakless setups for anything 6 and up.
That said, if they're that good at exerting, maybe broader use might actually bring the Crusader into the light? It's a total slug, but Guardian SLF + dakka would potentially be viable, no?
Lance is best for raw hull damage, but the shard cannon one is almost as good against hulls and is really powerful against shields. But the Lance is also way better against scouts, so if that's something you're doing a lot of, then it's definitely your premier choice.
I haven't brought my Guardian slf to AX combat for a while, simply because I don't want the "experts" to shoot it out of the sky.
In addition, their behavior (targeting and shooting and not suffering the ammo bug) is not consistent.
I agree with other posters that if FDEV created an elaborate series of crafting mechanics to put these things in the game, and then built the multiplayer / AX instances so that they would not function.
Players telling other players not to use in game resources because they break the game really does speak to the quality of the FDEV product.
Should players be allowed to bring the slfs, whether piloted by npc or human player crew in Open? YES.
Should FDEV make a game that works? YES.
Are players irritated with each other because the game is broken? YES.
Is the remedy to not use in game resources? NO.
I guess we could file a bug report...
In addition, their behavior (targeting and shooting and not suffering the ammo bug) is not consistent.
I agree with other posters that if FDEV created an elaborate series of crafting mechanics to put these things in the game, and then built the multiplayer / AX instances so that they would not function.
Players telling other players not to use in game resources because they break the game really does speak to the quality of the FDEV product.
Should players be allowed to bring the slfs, whether piloted by npc or human player crew in Open? YES.
Should FDEV make a game that works? YES.
Are players irritated with each other because the game is broken? YES.
Is the remedy to not use in game resources? NO.
I guess we could file a bug report...
If it helps inspire you, I was able to exert Hydra hearts solo using a non-Guardian Anaconda build I made. It DOES use the large experimental weapons stabiliser. 4 x Large enhanced AX MC's and 2 x medium enhanced AX missiles. It took a lot, I also had to land pretty often, most hearts required re-exerting and there was no swarm due to it being a ground mission but I WAS able to exert and destroy all 8 Hydra hearts using no Guardian modules whatsoever (or shields for that matter lol).
I did bring an AX Taipan SLF but, as I've mentioned in other threads, the AI decides that the AX MC's on the Taipan are so weak that it would do more damage by ramming ...so it does exactly that instead of firing to extent of blowing itself up. Also, due to having to land a lot, I ended up not launching the SLF at all. However, had I been less stubborn and brought a Lance along, the damage contribution would have made exerting the first 4 hearts REMARKABLY easier. If I had two friends flying TWO Lances, that would have made it easier again.
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Seeing as this thread is still going, I'll go ahead and post some of my own footage / conclusions flying these SLFs at Planetary Port CZs (so... in the absence of Thargon Swarms):
The Javelin and Trident are completely outclassed by the Lance with either an NPC pilot or a player at the controls. The Javelin's DPS is great on paper, but good luck using that beyond 200m with its ridiculous spread (and NPCs struggle with that too, opening up on targets out at 1 km+ with the energy waves flying everywhere); the Trident just doesn't have the projectile velocity nor the DPS for it to be worthwhile, especially against Scouts and exerted hearts. With the Lance, I can challenge Basilisks and win (assuming they don't focus me
) and I can have my NPC pilot wear down the shields of the larger Interceptors while I'm rearming my Cutter's Heatsinks / weapons.
While I personally think the Lance is the best of the bunch, they all share several glaring flaws: receiving the Caustic debuff is an instant wipe, Thargoids have aimbot-level aim even against them and they have no way to run cool to counter that, they crumble quickly due to Phasing damage, their hitboxes are huge, and you have a fraction of a second to dodge Scout missiles at the ranges the Javelin and Trident are effective at, with zero warning when that happens (especially if the Berserker buffing your target is sitting fat and happy at the port 20+ km away, well off your scanners).
Meanwhile, the AX Taipan is much, much more robust, with more Hull HP and the same Shield HP as the Guardian SLFs. Its slimmer frontal profile allows it to dodge incoming fire far easier, so much so I can challenge an attacking Interceptor using a corkscrew maneuver without too much worry. Its AX Multicannons are decent, too, offering good DPS for either exerting or destroying hearts. Unfortunately, it shares some of the flaws of the Guardian SLFs, mainly the Caustic Debuff being an instant wipe and the Scout missile problem. NPCs also don't know how to fire the Multicannons, so these are Multicrew only until that bug is patched...
At the very least, I'd like to see all of these SLFs outfitted with Caustic Sinks to deal with the Caustic Debuff issue and mitigate the Scout missiles somewhat. I'd love to see both the Javelin and Trident brought up to the destructive power of the Lance at some point - preferably via a direct, no-nonsense buff, NOT through re-unlocking them on a per-fighter basis like the Salvation weapons.
The Javelin and Trident are completely outclassed by the Lance with either an NPC pilot or a player at the controls. The Javelin's DPS is great on paper, but good luck using that beyond 200m with its ridiculous spread (and NPCs struggle with that too, opening up on targets out at 1 km+ with the energy waves flying everywhere); the Trident just doesn't have the projectile velocity nor the DPS for it to be worthwhile, especially against Scouts and exerted hearts. With the Lance, I can challenge Basilisks and win (assuming they don't focus me
) and I can have my NPC pilot wear down the shields of the larger Interceptors while I'm rearming my Cutter's Heatsinks / weapons.While I personally think the Lance is the best of the bunch, they all share several glaring flaws: receiving the Caustic debuff is an instant wipe, Thargoids have aimbot-level aim even against them and they have no way to run cool to counter that, they crumble quickly due to Phasing damage, their hitboxes are huge, and you have a fraction of a second to dodge Scout missiles at the ranges the Javelin and Trident are effective at, with zero warning when that happens (especially if the Berserker buffing your target is sitting fat and happy at the port 20+ km away, well off your scanners).
Meanwhile, the AX Taipan is much, much more robust, with more Hull HP and the same Shield HP as the Guardian SLFs. Its slimmer frontal profile allows it to dodge incoming fire far easier, so much so I can challenge an attacking Interceptor using a corkscrew maneuver without too much worry. Its AX Multicannons are decent, too, offering good DPS for either exerting or destroying hearts. Unfortunately, it shares some of the flaws of the Guardian SLFs, mainly the Caustic Debuff being an instant wipe and the Scout missile problem. NPCs also don't know how to fire the Multicannons, so these are Multicrew only until that bug is patched...
At the very least, I'd like to see all of these SLFs outfitted with Caustic Sinks to deal with the Caustic Debuff issue and mitigate the Scout missiles somewhat. I'd love to see both the Javelin and Trident brought up to the destructive power of the Lance at some point - preferably via a direct, no-nonsense buff, NOT through re-unlocking them on a per-fighter basis like the Salvation weapons.
Seeing as this thread is still going, I'll go ahead and post some of my own footage / conclusions flying these SLFs at Planetary Port CZs (so... in the absence of Thargon Swarms):
The Javelin and Trident are completely outclassed by the Lance with either an NPC pilot or a player at the controls. The Javelin's DPS is great on paper, but good luck using that beyond 200m with its ridiculous spread (and NPCs struggle with that too, opening up on targets out at 1 km+ with the energy waves flying everywhere); the Trident just doesn't have the projectile velocity nor the DPS for it to be worthwhile, especially against Scouts and exerted hearts. With the Lance, I can challenge Basilisks and win (assuming they don't focus me
While I personally think the Lance is the best of the bunch, they all share several glaring flaws: receiving the Caustic debuff is an instant wipe, Thargoids have aimbot-level aim even against them and they have no way to run cool to counter that, they crumble quickly due to Phasing damage, their hitboxes are huge, and you have a fraction of a second to dodge Scout missiles at the ranges the Javelin and Trident are effective at, with zero warning when that happens (especially if the Berserker buffing your target is sitting fat and happy at the port 20+ km away, well off your scanners).
Meanwhile, the AX Taipan is much, much more robust, with more Hull HP and the same Shield HP as the Guardian SLFs. Its slimmer frontal profile allows it to dodge incoming fire far easier, so much so I can challenge an attacking Interceptor using a corkscrew maneuver without too much worry. Its AX Multicannons are decent, too, offering good DPS for either exerting or destroying hearts. Unfortunately, it shares some of the flaws of the Guardian SLFs, mainly the Caustic Debuff being an instant wipe and the Scout missile problem. NPCs also don't know how to fire the Multicannons, so these are Multicrew only until that bug is patched...
At the very least, I'd like to see all of these SLFs outfitted with Caustic Sinks to deal with the Caustic Debuff issue and mitigate the Scout missiles somewhat. I'd love to see both the Javelin and Trident brought up to the destructive power of the Lance at some point - preferably via a direct, no-nonsense buff, NOT through re-unlocking them on a per-fighter basis like the Salvation weapons.
Awesome post. I find it particularly odd how the Taipan seems to be much better at heart damage. Unfortunately, it doesn't work under NPC control at the moment, as they won't fire.
You would think the Trident, being the multicannon approximation, would be particularly good at damaging hearts to make up for the lack of upfront damage, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It'd be nice if they buffed that aspect, at least.
But yeah, 100% agreed on giving them caustic sinks, it's a no-brainer, really.
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