General Using planets gravitiy to speed up the ships. Slingshot Maneuver. Hear me.

[Samoth Infernus]

Greetings commanders.

First, I wanted to say that I am not a physicist. I might be wrong in some cases but lets not forget this is a game.

Here is my proposition to shorten the time spent on supercruise with a mini game or maybe a game mechanic.
Excuse my drawing skills, this is all I can do for a short time

My point is basicly like this;

• Ship arrives to the systems main star at point A
• Ship starts to maneuver towards point B ( Planet at the point B has a average gravity and the ship is able to take advantage of it )
• Ship goes with maximum speed to the point B to benefit more from planets gravity. (Longer the range from star = better the speed multiplied from grav-assist)
• After the speed bonus the ship got from the first maneuver, now the ship goes ≈1,5 more than its normal supercruise speed.
• When the ship arrives to the point C, ship starts the speed up more and adds the normal supercruise speed a little more to get the maximum speed at point D

• Supercruise assist module could get an upgrade.
• New module might be able to calculate the maneuver automatically using orrery maps layout.
• Hud element like the one in interdiction mechanic but for grav-assist maneuver. So the mechanic becomes a mini-game to keep players active in game while the supercruising

Thanks for reading, please do not forget to share your opinions and please consider this is a game / mini game suggestion. As I told you before I am not a physicist, I might be wrong in so many things. I just want people to enjoy their time spent in Elite.

 

[space voyager]

With the current system, where a G well will DEcelerate you, slingshots do the exact opposite. Changing the system so drastically is IMO not to be expected.

That said, I'm very much in favour of speeding SC travel A LOT. Maybe even make it a minigame to prevent boredom.

BTW, the point B maneouver in your chart would probably slow you down, point C depends and the end point of both voyages would need to be the same.

 

[varonica]

You need to understand how SC works, your maximum speed in SC "decreases" as your ship gets deeper into a gravity well, this is exactly the opposite behaviour you are modeling there and therefore that can't possibly work. However, and it has been failry well researched, by following a path that avoids entering gravity wells while manouvering through systems you get where you are going faster, so what you are proposing to get places faster already exists in game, but most people have no understanding of how SC works so ignore it completely and always go the slow way!

The ship following path A will get there much faster than the ship following the B path because the ship following B path is diving deeply into the gravity wells and and will be "slowed down" immensely by the increased gravity as it passes closer to the planets. In fact the ship following path A could get there even faster if it followed a curve away from the two planets.

I will point you to the Cannon link to Cmdr Heisenberg6626’s study of the Optimal Supercruise Flight Paths;

Optimal Supercruise Flight Paths | Canonn Research Group

We are privileged to have been asked to host Cmdr Heisenberg6626's study of the Optimal Supercruise Flight Paths, which examines this key element of space travel in detail

canonn.science

 

[Para Handy]

How can someone still not know how the drives interact with gravity fields?

P. S. HEAR ME!

 

[Samoth Infernus]

I actually know how gravity well affects the ships but I just wanted to propose something (maybe) logical, realistic and a little bit enjoyable thing. Seriously. I didn't calculate the "math" behind it and from my point of view it looks posible, thats why I wanted to share. It's hard for me to explain the things that comes to my mind with my not-so-good English. Should I delete this post before it burst into my face

 

[Scienti5t]

It would help if you could see the gravity wells more clearly.
Or get a flight assist (or add it to SC assist) to give you one of those wireframe tunnels for a grav-less path.

I thought slingshotting should work though. Is the game doing physics wrong there? I thought we should get pulled into the well and the slingshot is to balance on the edge and choose the optimum time to break out of the well keeping some of it's pull as extra momentum.

 

[Para Handy]

There have been more than enough threads explaining that Elite's supercruise uses a sort-of Alcubierre drive. I know the forum search is ropey but seriously, non-noobs failing to understand that your speed is limited by the ambient gravitational field is surprising.

Have some wikipedia:

Alcubierre drive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and have some of the game's wiki:

Supercruise

Supercruise is a method of faster-than-light (FTL) travel within star systems. A ship that is in supercruise can use the Frame Shift Drive to travel at speeds between 29.9 kilometers-per-second to 2001c superluminal (faster-than-light) speeds. It allows a ship to cross entire systems in a...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

I actually know how gravity well affects the ships .......

... it would appear not. Maybe you were thinking of Kerbal Space Program?

 

[Scienti5t]

There have been more than enough threads explaining that Elite's supercruise uses a sort-of Alcubierre drive. I know the forum search is ropey but seriously, non-noobs failing to understand that your speed is limited by the ambient gravitational field is surprising.

Have some wikipedia:

Alcubierre drive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and have some of the game's wiki:

Supercruise

Supercruise is a method of faster-than-light (FTL) travel within star systems. A ship that is in supercruise can use the Frame Shift Drive to travel at speeds between 29.9 kilometers-per-second to 2001c superluminal (faster-than-light) speeds. It allows a ship to cross entire systems in a...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

... it would appear not. Maybe you were thinking of Kerbal Space Program?

If it stresses you out feel free to not respond.

 

[Para Handy]

If it stresses you out feel free to not respond.

If you don't like the answer to your questions, don't ask them: "...Is the game doing physics wrong there? I thought we should get pulled into the well..."

Better that than give a snotty response to someone answering you, especially as I was not being rude or insulting.

 

[Scienti5t]

Well, the answer would have been the links.

I may be taking you wrong but it feels like your answer began with the snot: more than enough threads explaining this, me failing to understand etc.

Is that really a polite answer?

And suggesting that if I don't like your answers I shouldn't ask questions is pretty conceited.

Anyway, I'm sorry I bothered you. I'll stop now.

 

[Para Handy]

......
I may be taking you wrong but it feels like your answer began with the snot: more than enough threads explaining this, me failing to understand etc.
.....

Sorry to prolong this digression but... My initial remarks both in the my earlier post and the one you find offensive were a general honest expression that I find it surprising that people (not just you) have failed to notice the actual mechanism the game uses for supercruise even after being on the forum for a while. Plus of course posts 2 and 3 in the thread had already explained how the OP was mistaken. I do admit to teasing the OP about the "hear me" he used, although it seems he was not writing in his first language so mea culpa there.

How you can interpret my expressing surprise as being in any way rude I don't know. There is, it seems to me, a general lack of a sense of humour on these fora of late, I blame the Alpha. That is still not an excuse for your "If it stresses you out feel free to not respond" remark which was just plain rude.

 

[Scienti5t]

Well I think we both thought we would come across more light hearted than we did. 'If it stresses you out..' was kind of shocked but laughing.

I guess light snark and wit don't always get by in text.

And again, I'm sorry if I gave you any ill feeling.

 

[Chaparral]

I do think a minigame to improve supercruise travel times would improve the big waste of time that 10 kls + travel distances represent.

"Overcharge the FSD" (builds heat like silent running),

"Open the fuel manifold to full" (burn fuel like crazy increasing accel and decel rates - possibly running out of gas).

"Fly the ship apart!" (sacrifice module integrity to increase accel and decel rates).

"Follow the ley line" (do an interdiction type minigame to track the most optimal path to the destination and increase the accel and decel rates, with the potential of losing the game and being knocked out of supercruise, losing FSD integrity and having to wait for a FSD reset.

Any of these options would leave the basic SC as an option, but give people that like to play videoGAMES something to do besides minimize the GAME window during pointless long SC runs.

 

[GenericJedi]

The Slingshot Maneuver would not work on Elite Starships because they don't seem to use Reaction Mass for propellant.
Any ship, in normal space, falling into a gravity well will gain speed, but lose that speed falling back out of the gravity well, like a pendulum. No extra speed is gained.
The hydrogen used as reaction mass to propell the ship also gains speed falling into a gravity well. When the rocket blastes on closest approach, the hydrogen is thrown away from the ship, which pushes the ship in the opposite direction, and the extra speed the hydrogen gained falling into the well stays with the ship.
No reaction mass, no extra speed, regardless of how SC works.

 

[varonica]

The Slingshot Maneuver would not work on Elite Starships because they don't seem to use Reaction Mass for propellant.
Any ship, in normal space, falling into a gravity well will gain speed, but lose that speed falling back out of the gravity well, like a pendulum. No extra speed is gained.
The hydrogen used as reaction mass to propell the ship also gains speed falling into a gravity well. When the rocket blastes on closest approach, the hydrogen is thrown away from the ship, which pushes the ship in the opposite direction, and the extra speed the hydrogen gained falling into the well stays with the ship.
No reaction mass, no extra speed, regardless of how SC works.

Yes, a lack of understanding how the slingshot maneuver works is also apparent. Just entering and leaving a gravity well won't result in a faster speed at the end point, in fact it will take exactly the same amount of time to travel the same distance as if you were traveling in a straight line and not speeding up and slowing down at all. The slingshot maneuver the OP us referring to and is used in our probes is actually a result of the relative "motion" of bodies and not gravity alone. If I place my ship close to the path of a planet that is traveling faster than my ship and roughly the same direction the gravity of the planet will accelerate my ship, as it passes I can follow it in it's orbit and as long as I remain there and in it's gravity it will continue to accelerate my ship to the point where I am traveling as fast as it. (all things considered, how close I want to get, where I want to exit the effect and how fast I want to be going etc)

The action of diving in and out of a gravity well isn't a slingshot, it's used as part of a slingshot effect, but without the relative motion difference between the two objects there is no overall change of velocity for the ship. Conservation of energy and etc laws of physics.

I thought slingshotting should work though. Is the game doing physics wrong there?

Somebody is doing physics wrong, it's not the game. Physics is difficult and sometimes counter intuitive, don't sweat it!

 

[Scienti5t]

Thanks.
I didn’t get that before.

 

[CMDR HAOHUA]

Usually, the celestial sphere only affects spacecraft. Currently, when passing through the celestial body, it will slow down. this is normal phenomenon. If passing through celestial bodies will cause acceleration, it also means that it will be difficult to control the spacecraft. , I think it’s up to the developer to decide how to run it.
In real life
There are indeed proposals made by scientists that violate physics, but this theory is not affected by the gravity of celestial bodies
Instead of accelerating because of gravity!

 

[Tomx]

Just to point out that no slingshotted satelite in reality has ever gotten to anything like the speeds that you get to in supercruise...it is doing physics wrong, but real physics would be an awful awful lot slower....