Utopian Enforcer Cannon is a multi-cannon ?

[CaptainKremmen]

no. thrust is acceleration of acceleration (unlike our game that puts limits on such things). As long as you provide thrust, you are increasing your acceleration (until you get into relativistic speeds)

F=ma, so a = F/m. The force i initially give an object of 2kg is say 1 newton. so a = 1newton / 2kg. This a is always 0.5m/s^2 unless a force changes it. Forever. a doesn't magically go to 0. It can only go to 0 if something changes it and that's impacting my target in the game. a projectile's kinetic energy is lowest at the beginning of it's journey and highest at the end (in space with no messy gravity or EM forces to interfere).

No, you're mis-using basic scientific concepts as paper planes.


Force acts on the kinetic projectile when it is fired. As soon as the <whatever> force is done firing the kinetic projectile, it does indeed go to zero.


Force doesn't "magically" continue to act on a projectile long after it has gone off on the journey it started.


Please, if every body of mass continued to accelerate indefinitely long after it was given a push, it would destroy the universe in no time.

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Please don't feed the troll people. First graders know this stuff.

You're right.

On a lighter note, this forum member is the first to get on my Ignore List for purely scientific reasons.

 

[Darth Ender]

seriously. Acceleration is constant ... IT IS CONSTANT. Velocity is not. VELOCITY IS NOT CONSTANT.

Kinetic energy increases the longer my projectile travels in space because it's acceleration is constant. You're agreeing with the math and then saying it's conclusions are wrong.

probes would travel at constant velocity after their thruster burns if your broken logic stood. They do not. They continue to accelerate at the rate their thrusters contributed. forever. That's why voyager (and every probe) doesn't need to constantly fire thrusters (even if it could) to continue increasing in velocity, which it does.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

seriously. Acceleration is constant ... IT IS CONSTANT. Velocity is not. VELOCITY IS NOT CONSTANT.

Kinetic energy increases the longer my projectile travels in space because it's acceleration is constant. You're agreeing with the math and then saying it's conclusions are wrong.

Please accept your wrong. Please..

Try activating your thrusters in assistance off mode then cutting power (Essentially make your ship equal a bullet). Your velocity will remain constant, your acceleration by definition is change in velocity over time. Since that is 0 there is no acceleration. You are correct it is a constant, it is 0.

probes would travel at constant velocity after their thruster burns if your broken logic stood. They do not. They continue to accelerate at the rate their thrusters contributed. forever. That's why voyager (and every probe) doesn't need to constantly fire thrusters (even if it could) to continue increasing in velocity, which it does.

Ok I get your confusion now and I honestly can't help you if you think this (last attempt):

Speed in a direction is the definition of velocity.
Acceleration is the change in velocity over time and is commonly either a positive force being applied or a negative force slowing the object down.

If you fire a gun on Earth the only reason it will stop is due to air resistance and gravity slowing it down (applying negative acceleration).
In space there is no air or gravity so no negative forces.

Giving something a 10m/s velocity by punching it will make it move in that direction forever until it is pulled into an object by gravity.

On a lighter note, this forum member is the first to get on my Ignore List for purely scientific reasons.

Quite extended reaction but I may have to agree if this continues much longer

 

[Tulkas97]

I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but I have to hear this explanation.

Darth if acceleration in space works the way your misguided understanding of physics says it should, why are Voyager 1 and 2 not traveling at .9999999 the speed of light by now?

 

[Darth Ender]

dont use game ship mechanics here. The computer controls your velocity and acceleration even with FA off. This is done because if velocity is allowed to increase too much in the game then collision detection gets unreliable. The programming has to limit velocities. You are never moving in the game without computer assistance and "safety" controls.

 

[Darrett]

On a lighter note, this forum member is the first to get on my Ignore List for purely scientific reasons.

I don't think that's necessary... I understand where the confusion comes in, misunderstanding isn't a reason to ignore someone.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Force doesn't "magically" continue to act on a projectile …

The Force always acts on anything within the galaxy. It's a fundamental truth.

The little Midi-chlorians keep pushing the bullet and create kinetic energy out of fluctuations in the quantum probability (not to be confused with zero point energy). That way a bullet in space can create energy. Midi-chlorians haven't arrived yet at earth in 2015, that's why we can't create energy that way and we will have to wait a few hundred years until we can create our own perpetuum mobile.

 

[CakeEngine]

nobody here understands Newton's Second law. This makes me sad for humanity.

sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Tarman]

The Force always acts on anything within the galaxy. It's a fundamental truth.

The little Midi-chlorians keep pushing the bullet and create kinetic energy out of fluctuations in the quantum probability (not to be confused with zero point energy). That way a bullet in space can create energy. Midi-chlorians haven't arrived yet at earth in 2015, that's why we can't create energy that way and we will have to wait a few hundred years until we can create our own perpetuum mobile.

This is probably the most scientific description of the Ender Effect. I vote we replace actual physics with this.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

dont use game ship mechanics here. The computer controls your velocity and acceleration even with FA off. This is done because if velocity is allowed to increase too much in the game then collision detection gets unreliable. The programming has to limit velocities. You are never moving in the game without computer assistance and "safety" controls.

http://www.polaris.iastate.edu/EveningStar/Unit5/unit5_sub1.htm

I'm going to leave this here and say goodbye because I agree it starts to feel like troll. Trying to help but can't handle it anymore. You are wrong. I'd stake my Engineering degree on it.

If you add thrusters and infinite fuel to the bullet then yes infinite acceleration. Otherwise it will stay at the same speed since there is no air resistance to stop it and no force to speed it up.

 

[Vasious]

The Projectile will retain the same kinetic energy at time 10 that it did at time 0 if the velocity is constant.


Assume we are in a vacuum and we are ignoring any possible gravity wells from nearby planets

The Kinetic energy of a 230 grain (0.015kg) projectile from a 45 ACP round at a muzzle velocity of 250 m/s is 1/2(0.015)*(250)^2 = 468.75
Ten seconds later the velocity will still be 250m/s as no other forces have acted upon the projectile and the kinetic energy is still 468.75

F=ma is the formula used to determine the force needed to effect the change in velocity
Acceleration is a change in velocity over time
So when you say the force you give a 2kg object is 1 newton, the a=F/m needs to account for what period are you applying the total of 1 newton of force.
If it is for one second, then for that one second the object has an acceleration of 0.5 m/s/s but after that one second the acceleration does go to 0 as the force ceases to exist but the velocity will stay at the 0.5 m/s as we had 0.5m/s/s for 1 second
If you apply the 1 newton force for 2 seconds the acceleration remains the same but the end velocity is now 1 m/s as we had 0.5 m/s/s x 2 s
Again after the force ceases to be applies the change in velocity stops.

Going back to the 45 ACP above, the force is only applied by the expanding gasses of the propellant pushing the projectile down the barrel, once it has left the barrel, there is no force being applied to the projectile and its velocity remains the same.

What is the initial force


Well we know the initial velocity is 0 and the end velocity is 250
The distance is 5" in the test weapon so 0.127 meters
Velocity is distance over time
We know the distance the the average velocity (250+0)/2
So the time is d/v 0.127/125 = 0.001016 seconds
Assuming a linear/constant acceleration, velocity over time 250/0.001016 = 246063 m/s/s

F= m*a

F= 0.015*246063

F = 3690 newtons but remember they are applied over a thousandth of a second, it stops being applied at time = 0.001017

The force of impact of a projectile is just the reverse, slowing it down from the velocity to zero (assuming again ideal conditions)

As we have already shown, in the vacuum with no other forces applying, the velocity is constant, so the force imparted on impact, regardless of the distance from the muzzle, should be the same, if the same acceleration to zero is applied in both cases.

---

Oh if only I had seen Alex Brentnall's post before writing all that

 

[obliterator]

seriously. Acceleration is constant ... IT IS CONSTANT. Velocity is not. VELOCITY IS NOT CONSTANT.

Kinetic energy increases the longer my projectile travels in space because it's acceleration is constant. You're agreeing with the math and then saying it's conclusions are wrong.

I don't think you get the difference between acceleration and velocity...

probes would travel at constant velocity after their thruster burns if your broken logic stood. They do not.

huhh yeah they do. If a probe accelerates to X speed and stop its thrusters, it will continue to travel at X speed forever until a new force is applied to it.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… If a probe accelerates to X speed and stop its thrusters, it will continue to travel at X speed forever until a new force is applied to it.

One of the first things I tried in Elite Dangerous was to use a planet to accelerate my ship in super cruise. Didn't work, don't like super cruise ever after.

 

[Darth Ender]

The force doesn't have to be applied constantly. The energy is imparted on the object and gives it an acceleration. Unless something acts on the object to change that acceleration, it remains the same. Acceleration of an object can't fall to 0 unless a force is applied against the force I gave it until both forces are equal.

This isn't me that's confused. It's those who are confusing the way the game handles ship velocity and how kinematics work with ever present forces such as gravity and friction come into play. The acceleration of an object cannot change unless a force is applied, If i apply a force and stop applying it, it wont magically apply a force opposite of the initial one to change the acceleration. This is not infinite energy, this is basic physics.

I can put it maybe in a simpler way you'd understand.

If i do a burn in my ship and lets pretend i'm way out in deep space away from any strong gravity. If i do a timed burn of my thrusters my velocity will increase from 0 and continue to increase. If i do a burn in the opposite direction equal to the first regardless of how long i wait, I will bring my acceleration to 0. My velocity will be fixed at whatever it was when i did that reverse burn. To get my velocity down to 0 i'd have to do a burn to create a force that provides a negative acceleration and then a counter burn once my velocity reaches 0 to stop the negative acceleration.

That's how real space travel works.

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I don't think you get the difference between acceleration and velocity...
huhh yeah they do. If a probe accelerates to X speed and stop its thrusters, it will continue to travel at X speed forever until a new force is applied to it.

thrusters apply a force, this changes acceleration and this is what is constant forever until a new force is applied to change it. The velocity of your probe is going to increase ...though it will have a force of gravity and stellar winds and such acting upon it. unlike the game which doesn't take any of that into consideration anyway.

 

[Smauler]

No.

In Earth's atmosphere, shells and bullets slow down, due to friction from the medium through which they are moving (air).

Yeah.... you're closer to right, but not right. Bullets don't slow down because of friction, but because of air ram. If there was nothing in front of a bullet, and it only encountered the friction on its sides, it would continue almost forever.

Air ramming is most commonly seen with bicycle pumps (and that's why they get hot when used hard). It's also why objects on re-entry (like the space shuttle) get hot too.... nothing to do with friction.

 

[Stodgy]

The force doesn't have to be applied constantly. The energy is imparted on the object and gives it an acceleration. Unless something acts on the object to change that acceleration, it remains the same. Acceleration of an object can't fall to 0 unless a force is applied against the force I gave it until both forces are equal.

This isn't me that's confused. It's those who are confusing the way the game handles ship velocity and how kinematics work with ever present forces such as gravity and friction come into play. The acceleration of an object cannot change unless a force is applied, If i apply a force and stop applying it, it wont magically apply a force opposite of the initial one to change the acceleration. This is not infinite energy, this is basic physics.

I can put it maybe in a simpler way you'd understand.

If i do a burn in my ship and lets pretend i'm way out in deep space away from any strong gravity. If i do a timed burn of my thrusters my velocity will increase from 0 and continue to increase. If i do a burn in the opposite direction equal to the first regardless of how long i wait, I will bring my acceleration to 0. My velocity will be fixed at whatever it was when i did that reverse burn. To get my velocity down to 0 i'd have to do a burn to create a force that provides a negative acceleration and then a counter burn once my velocity reaches 0 to stop the negative acceleration.

That's how real space travel works.

It is not only not right, it is not even wrong.

+rep to the first person to recognize the quote.

 

[Riktar]

The force doesn't have to be applied constantly. The energy is imparted on the object and gives it an acceleration.

That's how real space travel works.

Ok, that is COMPLETELY backwards and wrong. Acceleration is constant ONLY if the applied force (thrust) is constant. To maintain constant acceleration you MUST have constant thrust.

That is basic physics........

 

[Fen Harel]

The force doesn't have to be applied constantly. The energy is imparted on the object and gives it an acceleration. Unless something acts on the object to change that acceleration, it remains the same. Acceleration of an object can't fall to 0 unless a force is applied against the force I gave it until both forces are equal.

According to this logic, the Voyager probes which were launched in the late 70s remain under acceleration, and thus their speed will continue to increase until they are close to the speed of light.

Does that make sense?

No. No it doesn't.

The Voyager spacecraft are traveling around 35,000 mph. This speed is not going to change unless they feel an external force, such as the gravitation from random star. If you don't believe me, go argue with NASA.

At some point, you are going to realize that it is a projectile's velocity - speed and direction - is what is preserved. Acceleration requires an external force. In the example you are discussing, once a projectile is launched, that is once it exits the tube, there is no more force and no more acceleration.

 

[Kitfox]

The force doesn't have to be applied constantly. The energy is imparted on the object and gives it an acceleration. Unless something acts on the object to change that acceleration, it remains the same. Acceleration of an object can't fall to 0 unless a force is applied against the force I gave it until both forces are equal.

Velocity stays the same without an application of force. Not acceleration.
Acceleration is an indicator of the force being applied.

Force = mass * acceleration

You wrote it yourself but don't even understand it.

Force/mass = acceleration

For a given force applied to a given weight, you'll get an acceleration that's dependent on those variables. If there's no force, as in the bullet is now out of the gun and in free space and doesn't have a rapidly expanding cloud of gas up it's bum, there's no acceleration.

0/m = 0

 

[AveMe]

offtop alert!
It's time to move it to other thread... The humor thread. e.g [HUMOR] Alternative physic by Darth Ender.




BTW those power's weapons sucks.