Vertical sync affecting enemy behaviour?

Eldan Cross

Eldan Cross
guys there's definitely something fishy with the combat trainer.
so i went to play once again. out of the blue, (i did not press anything to do it) i could see the FPS counter just over the game version(lower left corner).
i could see the fps counter in at least 3 games. Ships definitely behaved weird! new moves, was almost like going against a player. was weird.
after lets say 30 minutes at least passed and i changed mission type there was no fps counter, AI back to normal.
played that mission again, no fps counter, AI back to normal.
Is combat trainer connected to the internet and can someone(lets say frontier) make changes to it? xD
man so weird lol.

edit* wow i saw the video. nice one man! well i was always limiting my fps to 60. that never changed for me. this game is getting weirder lol
 
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Jim LeCreepé

J
If this is an fps rate issue, I highly doubt it is just a line in the code that can be changed. It might be hardcoded and affects way more than we can see combat wise. If the engine works on a limited fps rate, as many games sadly do, the fix might require heavy coding.
 

Eldan Cross

Eldan Cross
do you know how can we see frame rate inside the game without using fraps? is there an ingame button to press?
edit: it's ctrl-F. ok then i'm just getting paranoid :D. ctrl is my FA-OFF, and F a vertical thrust so i pressed it and didn't know lol.

it can make sense then. i limit my FPS at 60, but was playing inside an asteroid field. so when i was taking the battle in open space and away from asteroids, there was more fps to spare.
still in some occasions AI is not behaving the same, even with everything else the same. not just about shooting but flying too. If it's connected to fps, then.. who knows what else is wrong :D

hope they figure this out. anyway npcs is not too much of a concern for me. the fight is between players ;)
 
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Hexcaliber

Hexcaliber
Spot everyone who does not understand vsync.

In layman’s terms, vsync synchronises the graphics card frame rate with the refresh rate of your chosen resolution, in an effort to prevent tearing.

However, without a lengthy explanation just accept that Vsync is prone to cause other problems such as input lag and artifacting in fast moving scenes and when watching ntsc or pal content on a monitor. Some software and graphics drivers allow you to switch or force triple buffering that was introduced to help deal with the problem of input lag when vsync is enabled. Another problem with vsync is that if the gpu cannot render consistently at the chosen frame rate, vsync will cut the frame rate output to a pre-determined rate in an effort to ensure both display and output remain synchronised; when double buffered on a 60 Hz monitor the frame rate locks are 60, 30, 20, 15, 12, 10. Nvidia recently introduced adaptive vsync, that only synchronises output frames with the display refresh while it is able to render enough frames to match the refresh rate, to prevent the previous problem where vsync would cut frame rate discarding unused rendered frames.

If you are not experiencing tearing, leave vsync off, as it serves no other useful purpose. If you wish to limit your frame rate artificially there are easier ways to do so, without the potential for introducing the problems that vsync can cause.

TLDR;
The op is clearly experiencing input lag while playing; disable vsync and use the in game frame rate limiter instead.
 
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Jim LeCreepé

J
You did read what people were posting in this thread? It is not about player skill it is about arificial intelligence and frame rate. Since Vsynch limits the frame rate it causes the issue. If your hardware does not run the game with high fps rates it might not be apparent, I hit over 150 most of the time and would say the AI is different. That has nothing to do with input lag or my skill if the enemy is not shooting back most of the time. Someone said the game engine is bases on a console engine...would be a reason why it is prone to issues when run with more than 60 fps. Old games had the same issue, running them on modern PCs cause all kinds of issues. Dialoge timed to fps (as some sort of timeframe) or some modern games (Skyrim, NFS Rivals) that suffer bad physics when forcing high frame rates by any means (usually vsynch off or tweaking configs)
 

Miimis Maks

Miimis Maks
Clearly, video shows where problem is. But in solo/open they fight back as always. Doesnt matter v-synch on/off

[video=youtube;qhCSLYGzDbM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhCSLYGzDbM[/video]
 
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Frans Cantor

F
Like discussed in this thread, I don't think there is an easy solution for this. :( Just have to cap the framerate when I start to play this tomorrow and hope that this bug doesn't affect negatively to people's gaming experiences. I have to say that I feel a bit uneasy since this is a MMO and some people get advantage because of this. Players are also comparing their fighting skills against NPCs... Fortunately this probably won't affect PvP, but I wonder what happens when there are many players against the same NPCs?
 

SuperGhostMaster

S
Lange_666 said:
Link: How VSync works

Could it be that with VSync set to ON, on the frames that are not in sync with the monitors refreshrate (and are dropped) the hits on the targets are not accounted for?
Click to expand...

This is EXACTLY why I pointed out that I am using G-Sync (which is NOT v-sync; NOT Adaptive Sync, and is proprietary to Nvidia). G-Sync syncs the frame rate and refresh rate based on frame rate. It is NOT Adaptive Sync because it does not create duplicate frames, it doesn't drop frames; your refresh and frame rate are 1:1 at all times.

That is to say, if you're @ 87FPS, you're @ 87Hz, if you're @ 52FPS, you're @ 52Hz, and so on.

V-Sync does NOT sync refresh rate to frame rate or vice versa. It caps the FPS at the refresh rate, then halves the FPS to 1/2 the current refresh rate if the FPS drops below a threshold, usually about 10-15FPS (thus the sudden drops from 60FPS to 30FPS) - it does NOT adjust your refresh rate. At no point are your frame rate and refresh rates synced unless you're running exactly 30FPS/60FPS, etc. to what your monitor's refresh rate is set at.

G-Sync is as close as you can get to being 1:1 ratio of refresh rate and FPS at all times.

If this theory is correct, then only G-Sync users are actually getting the true difficultly challenge and everyone else has it easier because V-Sync or not, unless you're running at exactly the FPS:Refresh rate based on your monitor, then you're not syncing to anything.

Your FPS being in sync or not has nothing to do with hit detection other than your ability to predict it ahead of time and compensate for input lag, latency, etc.



The most likely explanation is that this game handles the frame buffer poorly and due to waiting for a server request to update the frame, drops frames anyway; V-Sync will accentuate this issue due to it's method of "syncing" the frame rate by either dropping or adding a frame (not really adding so much as buffering then repeating), which would lead to your ability to adapt to the target and the apparent target's position being off enough to affect your accuracy.

This is the classic "net code" and "input lag" argument in first-person shooters like BF and COD - this is old hat to anyone who's an FPS gamer.
 
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heartorhead

heartorhead
I did some test on this.
First I played with ingame vsync off (but enabled dynamic vsync in RadeonPro software) and did Anaconda assassination mission in a Sidewinder. After initial several seconds it stopped firing its turrets. They reinitialize when her shields are down or certain amount of time passes.

[video=youtube;r7m48kSvCxE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7m48kSvCxE[/video]

Second test was with ingame vsync on.
This time in the Adder. At first attempt Anaconda properly fired her turrets whole time. At second attempt it did a lunch break again.
So I don't think it is Vsync related.

[video=youtube_share;yKOVGPefKlg]http://youtu.be/yKOVGPefKlg[/video]
 
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Neuros

N
When the fix comes out I would like to see some of those videos of people killing Anacondas in Sidewinders again, as I have noticed on all the vids with these sort of things there are large portions of the fight where the Anaconda doesn't fire a single shot, maybe this is why?

Edit - Didn't notice your post there heartorhead.
 
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heartorhead

heartorhead
Neuros said:
When the fix comes out I would like to see some of those videos of people killing Anacondas in Sidewinders again, as I have noticed on all the vids with these sort of things there are large portions of the fight where the Anaconda doesn't fire a single shot, maybe this is why?

Edit - Didn't notice your post there heartorhead.
Click to expand...

Without abusing shield banks I don't think it will be possible. You can put 2 banks on a Sidewinder.
 

kiario

kiario
Should, not this be a prio 1 fix? I have always played with Vsync ON so I am not affected but the game change could be a nice surprice to many...more rage quitting :)
 
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