Engineers Very frustrated player trying so hard not to just uninstall... Please help!

[gwarf]

First and foremost I am a casual player...

Honestly, I rarely even consider posting on forums of any kind. I do lurk forums, but usually only when I am have having problems or need information. (I wish forums had like a $1 paypal donate button for when users save your life after hours of searching for information)

Last week me and two friends died over and over and over trying to do several missions. We finally finished one of the hostage missions but it didn't let us turn in(another sore spot with this game!). I decided to let the game rest a few more months in hope it would eventually be playable again like last year before the horizon's update broke most of the the missions.

So this morning I logged in after seeing the refund tweet. I decided to take it slow and try at a simple RES. Welp, obviously I deserved all those deaths... I went to an RES and immediately was destroyed by a Clipper. I run a fully upgraded Vulture and before the patch could easily out maneuver any ship and usually even fight wings of two or three ships with good chaff usage.

The fight went as most of the deaths last week. I engaged the clipper above and started on his shields. He rotated and boosted right into me right while firing. The collision took 2 rings of my shields out. But it completely took his down. I continued fighting but even using chaff 2 times I was at 50% hull and he was still at %70. The whole fight I tried to out rotate him, but he was just standing still rotating and never missing even when I was chaffing. I tried to run at 50% realizing I couldn't out DPS him but he mass blocked me and some modules stopped working right about when I was gonna escape(35% hull).

Observations:
- Obviously I should stop using chaff as the new AI ignores it
- Obviously casual players should not attack any ships bigger than itself
- I'm going to need a K/D ratio of about 40 to 1 to make money with killing only ships smaller than me

Questions(all that really matters from this post:
- How do you not just get into a DPS race with the new AI?
- Is the vulture maybe just useless(for me) now that I can't outmaneuver the bigger ships?

Hmm, looking at this post I am sad. It looks like any normal rant post... This was not my intention.

If I am really THAT bad at combat after logging 600 hours into elite(it seems that I am) could people post some videos of using a vulture against the new AI? Also, if not videos some advice besides follow around security and shoot what they are shooting(which is boring and stupid)

*If this post offends you because I am whining about YOUR game being to hard feel free to harass me... I'm just not sure this game is for casuals(me) anymore*

 

[Minoo Minou]

I would say that this game is for not-so-casual players.

You can out-manuver any ships in the game with a Vulture, it's the best for that.

Don't throw everything away because you lose a fight, especially against a Clipper, this ship can be nasty

 

[Dimensions]

I feel the same way as you. I know things aren't balanced when fat ships like Anacondas and dropships can out turn me ever time. I enjoy bounty hunting but my earnings have been down by about 66% because of longer fights and going back more frequently for repairs. Unfortunately the way they have tuned the AI has caused a split in the community, not a good move. People saying the AI is fine and others saying they have lost millions in rebuy costs. Now it has been implemented they have put themselves into a difficult position. No matter which they they turn they will upset people. They need a new strategy. FD have a bad habit of balancing things in the extreme and then trying to work backwards, which is not sensible and in this case has backfired.

 

[gwarf]

Hmm, I just realized there is a different thread where this is being discussed. I should have been more patient. I will update after the upcoming nerf.

 

[Hajile]

okay so if the trick to combat is forgetting everything pre 2.1... if you could take an anaconda in a vulture 1v1 before you probably can't now little ship vs big ship is now a hyena vs lion type of fight... use the help of system security if they are available.
1) be careful what fights you pick
2) be mindful of Gun count, it matters
3) watch out for upper level AI they can FAoff their ship and will pip manage your brains out.
4) if you want to hunt lion, hunt with friends
5) pips to engines for turning, pips to shields for living, pips to weapons for killing.
6) despite what everyone might say engineering your weapons is really not necessary for survival. but hunting in your weight class is.

 

[GluttonyFang]

- Obviously I should stop using chaff as the new AI ignores it

False.

- Obviously casual players should not attack any ships bigger than itself

False, casual player doesn't equate to being incompetent in combat. Also you can attack larger craft with the aid of wingman or system authority.

- I'm going to need a K/D ratio of about 40 to 1 to make money with killing only ships smaller than me

This isn't CoD, and you can take on ships larger than yourself easily, see above.

- How do you not just get into a DPS race with the new AI?

Check your outfit, are you outfitted for killing?

- Is the vulture maybe just useless(for me) now that I can't outmaneuver the bigger ships?

You simply don't know how to properly maneuver if that's the case.

 

[ShimEnki]

First and foremost I am a casual player...

Honestly, I rarely even consider posting on forums of any kind. I do lurk forums, but usually only when I am have having problems or need information. (I wish forums had like a $1 paypal donate button for when users save your life after hours of searching for information)

Last week me and two friends died over and over and over trying to do several missions. We finally finished one of the hostage missions but it didn't let us turn in(another sore spot with this game!). I decided to let the game rest a few more months in hope it would eventually be playable again like last year before the horizon's update broke most of the the missions.

So this morning I logged in after seeing the refund tweet. I decided to take it slow and try at a simple RES. Welp, obviously I deserved all those deaths... I went to an RES and immediately was destroyed by a Clipper. I run a fully upgraded Vulture and before the patch could easily out maneuver any ship and usually even fight wings of two or three ships with good chaff usage.

The fight went as most of the deaths last week. I engaged the clipper above and started on his shields. He rotated and boosted right into me right while firing. The collision took 2 rings of my shields out. But it completely took his down. I continued fighting but even using chaff 2 times I was at 50% hull and he was still at %70. The whole fight I tried to out rotate him, but he was just standing still rotating and never missing even when I was chaffing. I tried to run at 50% realizing I couldn't out DPS him but he mass blocked me and some modules stopped working right about when I was gonna escape(35% hull).

Observations:
- Obviously I should stop using chaff as the new AI ignores it
- Obviously casual players should not attack any ships bigger than itself
- I'm going to need a K/D ratio of about 40 to 1 to make money with killing only ships smaller than me

Questions(all that really matters from this post:
- How do you not just get into a DPS race with the new AI?
- Is the vulture maybe just useless(for me) now that I can't outmaneuver the bigger ships?

Hmm, looking at this post I am sad. It looks like any normal rant post... This was not my intention.

If I am really THAT bad at combat after logging 600 hours into elite(it seems that I am) could people post some videos of using a vulture against the new AI? Also, if not videos some advice besides follow around security and shoot what they are shooting(which is boring and stupid)

*If this post offends you because I am whining about YOUR game being to hard feel free to harass me... I'm just not sure this game is for casuals(me) anymore*

Yup and at the same time while alienating those that arent interested in high intensity combat, FD wonders where more revenue will come from and all they get from fanbois as a possibility is cosmetics, bobbleheads and even more paint jobs ...talk about kindergarden

 

[YinYin]

- Obviously I should stop using chaff as the new AI ignores it

No. If you can, have a look at their weapon mounts. NPCs do use fixed weapons at times against which chaff is useless. If you see them raised above the mount gimbaled or turreted (or from afar, not firing only straight ahead), chaff will work.

- Obviously casual players should not attack any ships bigger than itself

Again, no. You should not engage NPCs of very high ranks (deadly/dangerous/elite), until you are confident at running (never try to low wake out of a fight - a high wake cannot be mass locked by ships). Size hardly ever matters.

- How do you not just get into a DPS race with the new AI?

Same as before. In a bounty hunting scenario, engage from behind and stay there. Pips to eng while not under attack and using all thrusters available to you (forward/backward, laterals and all rotations).

- Is the vulture maybe just useless(for me) now that I can't outmaneuver the bigger ships?

No. I'm still fine with mine. You may need to refit and adjust your strategies though as mentioned above. Experiment a bit. If you can't afford to experiment in the Vulture do get into a smaller ship for the time being.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Hello OP,
Frontier is refunding money for all ship rebuys since the 2.2 patch went live, and have tweaked the NPC threat again today.
Give them a bit of time to balance the patch; they know some people are having troubles.

I took a Python to a HazRes recently and did alright. It seems to depend on if we encounter an enemy that has modifications or not. Don't believe our skill levels are likely to be all that different, as my game experience is similar.

Every fight is a DPS race by definition. But it should not be predetermined by ship type, which ought to just set the advantage. Other factors like positions at the start, shield energy, heat etc also contribute. Vultures are tough opponents: my first fight against one was eye opening! If you apply some thruster mods, your ship will be peerless at maneuvers.

 

[avow555]

Npcs always recharge their shield regardless of dps you put on them, anyone else noticed this?

 

[gwarf]

Thanks for the input!

"...high wake cannot be mass locked by ships). Size hardly ever matters"

I had no idea these were different after 600 hours of play!!!! WOW



I will wait for the update and maybe post an update. Also, just because I have no pride left I will record my adventures and post them.

 

[GammaZ]

OP, what weapons do you have on your vulture? It looks like high-ranked NPC-s are using more armour now, just like CZ ones in 2.0, so if you have 2 pulses (which are very common for vulture) you will probably spend a lot of time trying to kill them. At least you should aim for powerplant if you have pulses...

 

[andrak]

Npcs always recharge their shield regardless of dps you put on them, anyone else noticed this?

NPCs use shield cells.

 

[GG7]

Sounds like the OP failed to upgrade the THRUSTERS on the Vulture to a reasonable level. It handles slow on a stock setting and needs an upgrade into the A range like any ED ship tends to need.

As for the AI... Much improved aside from the Chaff Spamming that is still going on. I have no problem with AI defense but only if they abide by the same rules and limitations we human players have. I have to wait much longer than 3-5 seconds before I can launch another Chaff round. I also run out eventually.

The AI seems to not be constricted by either of these limitations, as they seem to constantly spam Chaff during the entire fight, with maybe 2-4 seconds of time in between each Chaff round.

The rest of the balancing feels more realistic to me, but the Chaff spamming needs to be dialed down and made more like a human player could use that defense.

 

[YinYin]

I have to wait much longer than 3-5 seconds before I can launch another Chaff round. I also run out eventually. [...] the Chaff spamming needs to be dialed down and made more like a human player could use that defense.

You can alternate multiple chaff modules to get around the cool down and NPCs do run out of chaff.

 

[InlineSix]

Dear frustrated player,

you are neither incompetent nor too casual, you're just spoiled.

You had 600 hours of insanely illogical and dumb NPC fights with lame ducks, endless barrel rolls and other crappy behaviour.

For survival, no matter what ship type you're using, you now have to take into account WHAT SHIP you are in.

Main rule:

- If your opponent is not defeatable for you - and I would suggest you consider every opponent like this until you have killed the given ship type in the given rank before - you should either

a) opt out immediately by high waking into another system. After dropping, 4 on sys, turn to the enemy, boos beside him, 4 on eng, 2 on sys, keep on boosting, charge FSD, hasta la vista. Good to have submitted in this situation (ready FSD)

b) be defensive until the donought company arrives. They're fierce nowadays. 4 on sys, chaff, stay alive. In a vulture with its really fine shields and its agility, you should have NO trouble at all to tickle your opponent whilst dancing around him. Let the cops do the work later. DO NOT DO THIS IN ANARCHY SYSTEMS.

- If you know you can kill your opponent, it's plain simple: Fight according to what your ship's abilities. Your vulture - especially if you didn't make the mistake of sub-A thrusters and/or a military bulkhead - is a DANCER. Fight it like that. It's basically a strap on rocket with 2 C3 ports and a good shield. So stay behind your target, you can do that either by staying in the blue speed range and utilizing vector thrust or by flying FA Off - at least for some turns.

Don't tank in using a vulture. Boost. Turn. Attack. Boost. Turn. Attack. This will get you killed by a lot of ship types. The Vulture is not a tank.

If unsure about what I wrote, drop me a friend invite "inlinesix", I'll show you in game.

No need to be frustrated with the "new and undefeatable" NPC - folks, it's just different and - honestly - it's a JOKE now compared to the first betas. I'm still giggling about these fights...

 

[wagfeliz]

I would say that the game is completely broken and you should uninstall as I was thinking to do it myself.
But, there is one element in the game that they was not able to broke yet, its the exploration one, its nice, I am doing it myself and its the only reason I didnt uninstall it. I would do it if they give my money back thought, since no-man-sky is almost there, there is no reason to continue playing this with an better game out there.

 

[Iskariot]

Some high ranked ships are difficult to outmaneuver.
The FAS was a viscous AI opponent even before 2.1. and an Elite FAS after 2.1 is something you don't want to take head on.
The Clipper was easy mainly because it was bugged and loved to do the kebab maneuver.
Luckily this has changed.
I am much more careful now concerning the targets I select and in how I approach them and I am not ashamed to make use of the cops.
Combat really can be quite exciting now. I just escaped from a FAS and a dropship with 33% hull.
Complacency has gone because of the new AI and that is a very good thing.

I did however encounter a Clipper that maneuvered elegantly and fast around me in my Python, but it never fired a shot.
That was a bit disappointing.

Npcs always recharge their shield regardless of dps you put on them, anyone else noticed this?

No not at all and I did pay close attention to that.
Some use shield cells, but when I use my size 3 beam lasers I can mostly break through their recharge just fine.

 

[Speedy O]

I've had to re-learn some combat moves after getting lazy in a FDL. I'm using the Vulture now for res and it's much more fun than tanking in the Ferdie.
I'm still learning how to fly it but I've gone from twin bursts to burst and mc and its loads better.... Stayed out for ages a few nights ago in a High res and I'm not a great Pilot...
I definitely got lazy pre 2.1

 

[Cmdr Dubstep Dragon]

dont do it man!, did that help?