[Video] More FIRE buttons are almost a must, especially if you load more than 2 weapon types

I would like it on any weapon with a time to target like Cannons, Plasma Accelerators, rockets, Multi-Cannons so if fighting a fast moving target i can saturate a wider area with shots instead of firing 2-4 weapons at the same spot.

At least so I get a staggered firing sequence with one button press so a selector switch would be nice.

Let's be totally honest though...anyone who can spend the kinda money on the kinda hardware that would support this would have access to the macros needed to achieve this already.

Two fire buttons work no matter the situation. You can't squash another 8 fire buttons onto an xBone controller. You can however make a PC HOTAS fire a volley of missiles. Use yer noggin.
 
Ripple fire is a thing and having a selection for non-syncronized firing would be nice so that instead of firing two cannon shots at once we shoot one, then the other and back again.

It also reduce the chance of a group of missiles being taken out in the same AOE explosion.

EDIT: But for that all i need is a fire selector switch from Group/Stagger or something similar.

The option of selective/progressive/ripple fire etc. on multiple instances of the same weapon indeed would be good, certainly with missiles etc. Like the old dual/quad laser option in X-Wing.

As you note, would need parameters in the weapon group setting.
 
I hate these topics. As much as I would like to have more fire groups... too much is thrown back and forth between the console vs pc crowd, and the 'git gud' ignorant bullies vs everyone else crowd.

1, saying "GIT GUD" makes you out to sound like a complete bhole, and nothing more. period.
2, console users saying they want to be treated fairly? Newsflash, you knew exactly how limited a console was when you bought it, that's on you!
3, FD, in the past said something about UI limitations. No, just no. Don't lie... FD needs to have some danged integrity...again I have to say that. Admit that you are stubborn and simply don't want to change it, that you're stubborn, and fall partially under that "git gud" crowd of bullies.
4, anyone simply against it because they think the challenge they get from it is worth only having 2 fire buttons... go sit on a bed of nails and walk on glass or hot coals already... get your kicks and get back to reality with the rest of us, OK? Voluntarily, nay, BEGGING to be be gimped... is just idiotic in the least polite manner I can think of.\

5, and for the love of all that is good and true in this world: If you're going to take any side to an argument, you'd better have something more to say than just "NO, and again, NO". , grow up.
 
I hate these topics. As much as I would like to have more fire groups... too much is thrown back and forth between the console vs pc crowd, and the 'git gud' ignorant bullies vs everyone else crowd.

1, saying "GIT GUD" makes you out to sound like a complete bhole, and nothing more. period.
2, console users saying they want to be treated fairly? Newsflash, you knew exactly how limited a console was when you bought it, that's on you!
3, FD, in the past said something about UI limitations. No, just no. Don't lie... FD needs to have some danged integrity...again I have to say that. Admit that you are stubborn and simply don't want to change it, that you're stubborn, and fall partially under that "git gud" crowd of bullies.
4, anyone simply against it because they think the challenge they get from it is worth only having 2 fire buttons... go sit on a bed of nails and walk on glass or hot coals already... get your kicks and get back to reality with the rest of us, OK? Voluntarily, nay, BEGGING to be be gimped... is just idiotic in the least polite manner I can think of.\

5, and for the love of all that is good and true in this world: If you're going to take any side to an argument, you'd better have something more to say than just "NO, and again, NO". , grow up.

Would you like any chips with your salt?

Throwing a tantrum doesn't make you any more right.
 
Let's be totally honest though...anyone who can spend the kinda money on the kinda hardware that would support this would have access to the macros needed to achieve this already.

Two fire buttons work no matter the situation. You can't squash another 8 fire buttons onto an xBone controller. You can however make a PC HOTAS fire a volley of missiles. Use yer noggin.

AFAIK you cannot.

- Firing a volley of missiles means I need multiple weapon groups only for missiles and I need to re-lock missiles when switching fire groups.

- Getting staggered shots with ballistics have the same problem.

Also, having to use macros is not really 'fixing' the issue.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
I hate these topics. As much as I would like to have more fire groups... too much is thrown back and forth between the console vs pc crowd, and the 'git gud' ignorant bullies vs everyone else crowd.

1, saying "GIT GUD" makes you out to sound like a complete bhole, and nothing more. period.
2, console users saying they want to be treated fairly? Newsflash, you knew exactly how limited a console was when you bought it, that's on you!
3, FD, in the past said something about UI limitations. No, just no. Don't lie... FD needs to have some danged integrity...again I have to say that. Admit that you are stubborn and simply don't want to change it, that you're stubborn, and fall partially under that "git gud" crowd of bullies.
4, anyone simply against it because they think the challenge they get from it is worth only having 2 fire buttons... go sit on a bed of nails and walk on glass or hot coals already... get your kicks and get back to reality with the rest of us, OK? Voluntarily, nay, BEGGING to be be gimped... is just idiotic in the least polite manner I can think of.\

5, and for the love of all that is good and true in this world: If you're going to take any side to an argument, you'd better have something more to say than just "NO, and again, NO". , grow up.

Ah, so console users don't matter, am I right?

Only one person here who needs to grow up.

"NEWSFLASH!"

It's you.
 
AFAIK you cannot.

- Firing a volley of missiles means I need multiple weapon groups only for missiles and I need to re-lock missiles when switching fire groups.

- Getting staggered shots with ballistics have the same problem.

Also, having to use macros is not really 'fixing' the issue.

You actually used missiles? Locks aren't firegroup dependent. I can swap firegroups and retain lock. Not that kinetics even need it to start with.

Also, there's no issue to "fix". FD have stated on multiple occasions this is how it is going to be for intentional reasons, and there's nothing it breaks. I can use every ship, every weapon, and have never had an issue.

And again...if you can fork out the money on a HOTAS with 8 fire buttons, you can fork out on one that has macros.
 
You actually used missiles? Locks aren't firegroup dependent. I can swap firegroups and retain lock. Not that kinetics even need it to start with.

Also, there's no issue to "fix". FD have stated on multiple occasions this is how it is going to be for intentional reasons, and there's nothing it breaks. I can use every ship, every weapon, and have never had an issue.

And again...if you can fork out the money on a HOTAS with 8 fire buttons, you can fork out on one that has macros.

Hmm...true, I use pack launchers mostly so I fire them all in groups. Only used missiles on a few small ships years ago.
 
And again...if you can fork out the money on a HOTAS with 8 fire buttons, you can fork out on one that has macros.

Macros are a software thing and have nothing to do with hardware, since you could run those using third party apps, no special hardware required.

It's not the same as having bindable fire keys for each individual hardpoint.
A macro would switch through firegroups, this results in making only those weapons available that exist in the currently selected firegroup.
Having bindable fire keys for each individual hardpoint lets you fire that specific hardpoint without having to switch through firegroups or use macros, at the press of a button, in an instant.

You can also set up keybinds on your keyboard to utilize WASD1234QE + alt, WASD1234QE + ctrl, WASD1234QE + shift, giving you a total of 30 keybinds available without having to move your hand.

You seem to willingly misinterprete a discussion about possible addition/enhancement to the game with demands to "fix" an "issue".
Next thing you're complaining about is that folks with high end hardware get more fps than you and that's an unfair advantage...

Folks these days...
 
Macros are a software thing and have nothing to do with hardware, since you could run those using third party apps, no special hardware required.

Well thankyou for making my point even more concrete.

You can achieve what you want without even forking out.


It's not the same as having bindable fire keys for each individual hardpoint.
A macro would switch through firegroups, this results in making only those weapons available that exist in the currently selected firegroup.
Having bindable fire keys for each individual hardpoint lets you fire that specific hardpoint without having to switch through firegroups or use macros, at the press of a button, in an instant.

You can also set up keybinds on your keyboard to utilize WASD1234QE + alt, WASD1234QE + ctrl, WASD1234QE + shift, giving you a total of 30 keybinds available without having to move your hand.

You seem to willingly misinterprete a discussion about possible addition/enhancement to the game with demands to "fix" an "issue".
Next thing you're complaining about is that folks with high end hardware get more fps than you and that's an unfair advantage...

Folks these days...

I have a warthog HOTAS, dedicated flight chair that mounts the HOTAS, £200 keyboard, £60 mouse, £100 yaw pedals and VR headset.

I don't need any more advantages, son.

What I'm doing is overlooking entitlement. I know this "debate" well; I have seen FD state on multiple occasions why they have just two fire buttons and that it will not change. I also agree with these reasons, and I get on just fine whether I play on my above expensive rig, or on the £500 PC at my other half's place with KBAM.

Perhaps - and it's just a thought - you could consider that you're actually not in the right here; and instead of trying to move goalposts, perhaps you could learn and adapt?

Final thought on the subject: remember it's meant to be more difficult. You're complaining that, despite logistical reasons, the game is "broken" because it doesn't offer you enough fire buttons to make your life easy...but this is deliberately intended to make it harder to use multiple different weapon types. The game was designed that way.

I don't like that CoD features floaty backpacks, but I'll be damned if Infinity Ward go ahead and strip them out for me.
 
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That is just totally unnecessary, illogical and unmanageable and would never be acceptable in a real weapons platform - yes, I know it's a game.

Ah I forgot the icing on the cake; IRL, weapon systems typically use firegroups. With two fire buttons. Because it's effective.
 
One fire button for every weapons hardpoint is the bare minimum elite should offer.
So I could launch all 8 missile hardpoints in sequence without having 8 fire groups to switch through.

You could just empty one missile launcher after the other and have the same effect.
 
But to counter that we need to rebalance something else.

I propose to either:

- Increase the base mass of the Anaconda to 500 tonnes base hull mass

Or:

- Reduce the iCouriers shields to a more sensible 130 instead of the base 230 on a tiny 35 tonne ship

Or:

- We reduce the Fer-De-Lance fuel tank by 50% in order to fit the larger powerplant

Nononono- you see, the old FDL had a *smaller* power plant, not larger; so reverting it to its old configuration would restore some of the power-management finesse needed to fully take advantage of its considerable abilities, and would help level off some of the overwhelming advantage it gets from engineering, and from Shield Boosters in the extra utility slots.
 
Modern aircraft that can carry a number of different weapon system often only have two 'fire' buttons on the control stick. And they often have one dedicated fire button for a single weapons system and have to select between the others for use with the second fire button.

It part of the philosophy that you are selectively trying to kill something and not just 'shoot all da tings!' and have to exercise some 'fire control' rather than wanton blasting away at anything and everything will all you got.

So No I don't agree. We do not 'need' any more fire buttons. You might want some more but it is definitely not a 'must'

I was going to say the same thing, though, the difference is, we don't have shields in modern day warfare, so it is not likely that you will need multiple different weapons to take down the same target.

Z...
 
And having more fire buttons help that?

Yes, it very much does. I take it you don't fly a Corvette or Anaconda in combat regularly or else you wouldn't be asking this question.

My Corvette has two efficient beams as my primary weapons, plus a large corrosive MC, a pair of medium corrosive MC turrets and two missile pods. There are many situations where I want three or more fire buttons (plus a turret on/off toggle) to manage these weapons efficiently.

I use my beams as primary weapons, and due to cap draw I want to fire my beams independently against shields. That's fire button 1.
I use my large corrosive MC against larger ships, but only when shields are down, and I will often want to fire the MC independently from my beams. That's fire button 2.
I use my MC turrets against smaller ships (to conserve ammo) but need to toggle these on/off when they fire chaff. That's an entire fire group because I can't toggle on/off with the fire button, I have to deselect the weapons entirely. That would be fire button 3 if I had it available.
Against a smaller target trying to escape, I'll use missiles, so I want these separate and immediately available. That would be fire button 4.

At present I only have two fire buttons and two fire groups and I have no way to use the missiles effectively with that setup. I can't use more than two fire groups because I use the groups to quickly toggle turrets on/off and three groups is just not efficient for that purpose. If I dedicate the second fire group to missiles instead of turrets then I can use missiles but I can't turn the turrets off and that wastes ammo. It's a clumsy setup where I have to choose between having an efficient turret toggle (i.e., second fire group to turn turrets off quickly) or efficient access to missiles (which I can't put on any other fire button).

If I had three fire buttons and a turret on/off toggle feature (which should already be implemented) my problems would be solved. I could just switch fire groups to make missiles available since I wouldn't have to dedicate a second fire group for turrets. At the moment my Corvette's weapons are not being used most effectively because of FD's unnecessary limitation on only two fire buttons and no turret toggle, which is quite simply a terrible control setup in any game, especially a professionally developed AAA game.

Needing separate buttons for SCBs (which my Corvette and other medium/large ships use regularly) and chaff (which all of my smaller ships carry) makes the fire button limitations even worse. It's not just an issue on larger ships, even smaller ships with two different weapons plus chaff and SCBs run into problems with the limited fire buttons and keybind options. On my Vulture for example I have a dual chaff setup (which I can toggle using a fire group) but I also need to use a heat sink prior to using an SCB due to the heat damage so I really need to dedicate two buttons just to use a SCB properly. If we could bind more than one function simultaneously to the same button I could fire an SCB and heat sink simultaneously with a single button press but FD's keybinds aren't sophisticated enough to be customized in this manner, and even if they were I would need to reset my keybinds to do this every time I switched out from my Vulture to another ship (since I only need this option in the Vulture as a result of the poor heat management combined with a powerful class 5 SCB in its military slot).

I don't see it.

Again, maybe if you flew large combat ships with four different weapons and wanted a turret on/off toggle, you would.

All more fire buttons will allow you to do is have instant access to different fire groups....so by making it more complicated to remember what fire group you want to utilise and what fire button it is mapped to. So really a slight variation on the current setup.

No, more fire buttons would allow me to utilize my four different weapons effectively in different situations. If FD would stop designing large ships with four different sizes of hardpoints we might be able to manage with only two fire buttons, but even then it would still be inefficient.

Again I can why some people would 'want' this but that makes far from a 'need' or 'must have' by a long stretch.

It's a "need" in the same way that other critical flaws in the game need to be improved if they want to remain competitive in the space sim gaming market. At present the only reason they have gotten away with the game's control setup being so inefficient and frustrating is because there are no other competing games on the market right now. If they had any real competition then they would absolutely need to make these types of improvements. The worst part here is that the devs apparently don't understand their own game and claim that the lack of fire buttons is a "challenge" rather than understanding how terrible their current control setup is. Given how many of their players (myself included) grew up playing flight sims that type of explanation is not only ridiculous and condescending, it also causes a profound loss of faith in the ability of the devs to develop and improve the game's core gameplay.
 
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Yes, it very much does. I take it you don't fly a Corvette or Anaconda in combat regularly or else you wouldn't be asking this question.

My Corvette has two efficient beams as my primary weapons, plus a large corrosive MC, a pair of medium corrosive MC turrets and two missile pods. There are many situations where I want three or more fire buttons (plus a turret on/off toggle) to manage these weapons efficiently.

I use my beams as primary weapons, and due to cap draw I want to fire my beams independently against shields. That's fire button 1.
I use my large corrosive MC against larger ships, but only when shields are down, and I will often want to fire the MC independently from my beams. That's fire button 2.
I use my MC turrets against smaller ships (to conserve ammo) but need to toggle these on/off when they fire chaff. That's an entire fire group because I can't toggle on/off with the fire button, I have to deselect the weapons entirely. That would be fire button 3 if I had it available.
Against a smaller target trying to escape, I'll use missiles, so I want these separate and immediately available. That would be fire button 4.

At present I only have two fire buttons and two fire groups and I have no way to use the missiles effectively with that setup. I can't use more than two fire groups because I use the groups to quickly toggle turrets on/off and three groups is just not efficient for that purpose. If I dedicate the second fire group to missiles instead of turrets then I can use missiles but I can't turn the turrets off and that wastes ammo. It's a clumsy setup where I have to choose between having an efficient turret toggle (i.e., second fire group to turn turrets off quickly) or efficient access to missiles (which I can't put on any other fire button).

If I had three fire buttons and a turret on/off toggle feature (which should already be implemented) my problems would be solved. I could just switch fire groups to make missiles available since I wouldn't have to dedicate a second fire group for turrets. At the moment my Corvette's weapons are not being used most effectively because of FD's unnecessary limitation on only two fire buttons and no turret toggle, which is quite simply a terrible control setup in any game, especially a professionally developed AAA game.

Needing separate buttons for SCBs (which my Corvette and other medium/large ships use regularly) and chaff (which all of my smaller ships carry) makes the fire button limitations even worse. It's not just an issue on larger ships, even smaller ships with two different weapons plus chaff and SCBs run into problems with the limited fire buttons and keybind options. On my Vulture for example I have a dual chaff setup (which I can toggle using a fire group) but I also need to use a heat sink prior to using an SCB due to the heat damage so I really need to dedicate two buttons just to use a SCB properly. If we could bind more than one function simultaneously to the same button I could fire an SCB and heat sink simultaneously with a single button press but FD's keybinds aren't sophisticated enough to be customized in this manner, and even if they were I would need to reset my keybinds to do this every time I switched out from my Vulture to another ship (since I only need this option in the Vulture as a result of the poor heat management combined with a powerful class 5 SCB in its military slot).



Again, maybe if you flew large combat ships with four different weapons and wanted a turret on/off toggle, you would.



No, more fire buttons would allow me to utilize my four different weapons effectively in different situations. If FD would stop designing large ships with four different sizes of hardpoints we might be able to manage with only two fire buttons, but even then it would still be inefficient.



It's a "need" in the same way that other critical flaws in the game need to be improved if they want to remain competitive in the space sim gaming market. At present the only reason they have gotten away with the game's control setup being so inefficient and frustrating is because there are no other competing games on the market right now. If they had any real competition then they would absolutely need to make these types of improvements. The worst part here is that the devs apparently don't understand their own game and claim that the lack of fire buttons is a "challenge" rather than understanding how terrible their current control setup is. Given how many of their players (myself included) grew up playing flight sims that type of explanation is not only ridiculous and condescending, it also causes a profound loss of faith in the ability of the devs to develop and improve the game's core gameplay.

Yeah pretty much. Sure it's true that I don't "need" these features, in the same sense that I don't "need" to play the game at all.
 
Yes, it very much does. I take it you don't fly a Corvette or Anaconda in combat regularly or else you wouldn't be asking this question.

My Corvette has two efficient beams as my primary weapons, plus a large corrosive MC, a pair of medium corrosive MC turrets and two missile pods. There are many situations where I want three or more fire buttons (plus a turret on/off toggle) to manage these weapons efficiently.

I use my beams as primary weapons, and due to cap draw I want to fire my beams independently against shields. That's fire button 1.
I use my large corrosive MC against larger ships, but only when shields are down, and I will often want to fire the MC independently from my beams. That's fire button 2.
I use my MC turrets against smaller ships (to conserve ammo) but need to toggle these on/off when they fire chaff. That's an entire fire group because I can't toggle on/off with the fire button, I have to deselect the weapons entirely. That would be fire button 3 if I had it available.
Against a smaller target trying to escape, I'll use missiles, so I want these separate and immediately available. That would be fire button 4.

At present I only have two fire buttons and two fire groups and I have no way to use the missiles effectively with that setup. I can't use more than two fire groups because I use the groups to quickly toggle turrets on/off and three groups is just not efficient for that purpose. If I dedicate the second fire group to missiles instead of turrets then I can use missiles but I can't turn the turrets off and that wastes ammo. It's a clumsy setup where I have to choose between having an efficient turret toggle (i.e., second fire group to turn turrets off quickly) or efficient access to missiles (which I can't put on any other fire button).

If I had three fire buttons and a turret on/off toggle feature (which should already be implemented) my problems would be solved. I could just switch fire groups to make missiles available since I wouldn't have to dedicate a second fire group for turrets. At the moment my Corvette's weapons are not being used most effectively because of FD's unnecessary limitation on only two fire buttons and no turret toggle, which is quite simply a terrible control setup in any game, especially a professionally developed AAA game.

Needing separate buttons for SCBs (which my Corvette and other medium/large ships use regularly) and chaff (which all of my smaller ships carry) makes the fire button limitations even worse. It's not just an issue on larger ships, even smaller ships with two different weapons plus chaff and SCBs run into problems with the limited fire buttons and keybind options. On my Vulture for example I have a dual chaff setup (which I can toggle using a fire group) but I also need to use a heat sink prior to using an SCB due to the heat damage so I really need to dedicate two buttons just to use a SCB properly. If we could bind more than one function simultaneously to the same button I could fire an SCB and heat sink simultaneously with a single button press but FD's keybinds aren't sophisticated enough to be customized in this manner, and even if they were I would need to reset my keybinds to do this every time I switched out from my Vulture to another ship (since I only need this option in the Vulture as a result of the poor heat management combined with a powerful class 5 SCB in its military slot).



Again, maybe if you flew large combat ships with four different weapons and wanted a turret on/off toggle, you would.



No, more fire buttons would allow me to utilize my four different weapons effectively in different situations. If FD would stop designing large ships with four different sizes of hardpoints we might be able to manage with only two fire buttons, but even then it would still be inefficient.



It's a "need" in the same way that other critical flaws in the game need to be improved if they want to remain competitive in the space sim gaming market. At present the only reason they have gotten away with the game's control setup being so inefficient and frustrating is because there are no other competing games on the market right now. If they had any real competition then they would absolutely need to make these types of improvements. The worst part here is that the devs apparently don't understand their own game and claim that the lack of fire buttons is a "challenge" rather than understanding how terrible their current control setup is. Given how many of their players (myself included) grew up playing flight sims that type of explanation is not only ridiculous and condescending, it also causes a profound loss of faith in the ability of the devs to develop and improve the game's core gameplay.

I love flying my Conda in CZ's all the time. I fly 100% FA-off and have multiple load outs with various different weapons selections for different combat needs.

I have NEVER had an issue swapping out weapons sets in ED or any of the other flight sims I played over the last 30 odd years.

Again you might think you 'need' this but is is not a necessity by any stretch.

But being ex military where we are taught to be fully aware of what you are firing and at whom you are firing at I might have a different take on the whole select everything and just pull the trigger thing that this thread is about. But hey....
 
But being ex military where we are taught to be fully aware of what you are firing and at whom you are firing at I might have a different take on the whole select everything and just pull the trigger thing that this thread is about. But hey....

That's the opposite of what this thread is about. Anybody who wants to "select everything and just pull the trigger" would be fine with having only a single fire button.

I very much doubt there's any correlation between awareness of basic firearms safety and opinions on how many fire buttons ED needs.
 
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