[Video] The need for QUESTS (and hand made experiences)
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I certainly agree that more hand crafted content would be great. Actually the original tutorial missions for the game were some of the best storytelling that I think FD ever did. It was engaging and each mission led onto the next in a nice progression.
HCS voicepacks did something called Storybook Galaxy a long time ago that was another fantastic demonstration of exactly how well you could use existing game system and mechanics to tell an hand crafted narrative. (I don't think it's available any longer, though.)
On the other hand it's true that such hand crafted narrative isn't something that is really in Elite's pedigree. I have experience with Elite 2 anyway, and that certainly was not a hand crafted story extravaganza. Still FD would do well to expand the scope and ambition of the series with Elite Dangerous, so I'm fully in support of hand crafted missions and such.
HCS voicepacks did something called Storybook Galaxy a long time ago that was another fantastic demonstration of exactly how well you could use existing game system and mechanics to tell an hand crafted narrative. (I don't think it's available any longer, though.)
On the other hand it's true that such hand crafted narrative isn't something that is really in Elite's pedigree. I have experience with Elite 2 anyway, and that certainly was not a hand crafted story extravaganza. Still FD would do well to expand the scope and ambition of the series with Elite Dangerous, so I'm fully in support of hand crafted missions and such.
Yes a proper set of tutorial missions is desperately needed. But you don't need a load of hand-crafted quests or missions or whatever. What we desperately need, is just interesting mission designs for the RNG generators to use. Like, for example, these:
What do all of the above mission designs require? Actual locations that missions can take place in, as opposed to the empty blank bits of random space/planetary ring that all non-trading missions currently take place in.
Unfortunately Frontier doesn't seem to have worked out yet just how mind-numbingly and boring almost all of their current mission designs are, or maybe they have but they're incapable of implementing the mechanics within the galaxy sim to allow the mission system to generate the above kinds of missions. Sigh.
- heist missions (brute force/fast run/stealth your way into pirate base, scoop up some cargo container/dock and steal some data)
- virus upload missions (see above, except it's about docking and uploading a virus (and surviving while you do)
- base disable/destroy missions (take out XYZ guns/power modules/whatever on a pirate station!)
- proper assassination missions (stealth/fast run/brute force your way into enemy base, take out enemy boss)
- trench run missions (any of the above but with environmental design that requires skillful fast flying through a station's exhaust tunnels/a planet's canyons in order to get to the mission location)
- racing missions
- convoy protect/attack missions
- etc
What do all of the above mission designs require? Actual locations that missions can take place in, as opposed to the empty blank bits of random space/planetary ring that all non-trading missions currently take place in.
Unfortunately Frontier doesn't seem to have worked out yet just how mind-numbingly and boring almost all of their current mission designs are, or maybe they have but they're incapable of implementing the mechanics within the galaxy sim to allow the mission system to generate the above kinds of missions. Sigh.
From what I understand, the Commanders Log &-I suspect-the Codex, should have all the information needed for the game to better "tailor" missions (&, more importantly, mission chains) to the players own experiences. Beyond that, & significantly improving the complexity of missions-& how they chain together, I don't feel you'd get enough "bang for your buck" from hand-crafting "Quest Missions".
Seems to me we've had more Dev time devoted to hand crafted stuff like the UA probes than most progression games I've played and it went way over most players heads.
So no, I'm not looking for more of that, there's more in the game already than I could ever tackle, and honestly I think taking the work of others (like a helpful youtube how-to guide for example), following the script and thinking the game is too shallow, then suggesting the devs should create a bunch of custom stuff that will only be side-swiped by another helpful how-to guide would be a waste of resources.
So no, I'm not looking for more of that, there's more in the game already than I could ever tackle, and honestly I think taking the work of others (like a helpful youtube how-to guide for example), following the script and thinking the game is too shallow, then suggesting the devs should create a bunch of custom stuff that will only be side-swiped by another helpful how-to guide would be a waste of resources.
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I disagree. Frontier has been working on hand-crafted content for three years now, and I have ignored most of it, that's just not what I bought the game for. I want a living breathing universe, one with emergent stories born out of complex systems interacting with one another, not stories that exist because a game master wrote them for me.
People always burn through hand-crafted content much faster than it can be created and played through, while Elite is a game that is supposed to be played in the long run. Some hand-crafted content here and there for you to discover occasionally is fine, but what we need is more and better procedural content to fill in the rest, because that's the core of the game.
People always burn through hand-crafted content much faster than it can be created and played through, while Elite is a game that is supposed to be played in the long run. Some hand-crafted content here and there for you to discover occasionally is fine, but what we need is more and better procedural content to fill in the rest, because that's the core of the game.
Even before watching the video I have to say I agree completely.
After watching I still agree, but since you have a funny voice and used some bad words you can be sure that the echo chamber inhabitantants will be along shortly to discredit your opinion.
After watching I still agree, but since you have a funny voice and used some bad words you can be sure that the echo chamber inhabitantants will be along shortly to discredit your opinion.
That's the problem, mate!
The universe in ED is not living nor breathing, and its systems are nothing more than primitive disjointed activities.
Hence the need for hand-crafted quests and chained missions.
I play a lot of games and I've never seen any game offer GOOD emergent dynamic procedural quests. If the game mechanics were good you'd have 'personal narrative' emerge naturally. A good example of this would be mount&blade warband. Where every single game offers a ton of unique and fun situations. This is made possible by the fact that the game has good mechanics that work together and complement eachother.
I don't see how hand-crafted events would fix that problem though.
There's no need for "quests" if the core of the game is interesting and the universe around it immersive, which is where better procedural content comes in. What makes M&B interesting isn't the early questing for the lords of the realm, it's what comes after, the all out war to carve out your own kingdom, and that's entirely driven by the game's interlocking systems, not by any hand-crafted experiences.
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I don't play this game for it's story line, I just like flying the ships & missions are something to do that involves flying the spaceship I'm in.
Why do you play this game instead of one that provides the type of engaging content you are looking for? Note that I'm not saying 'go play another game', I'm hoping to get you to think about what it is you like about this game, and whether those other games lack that. No game is all things to all people, this one is pretty good at storylines, just maybe not the storylines you are interested in.
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We already get hand crafted missions. The Ram Tah missions and the Palin mission are all hand crafted. These could have been expanded and made into a mini personal quests (not a save the princess type quest though). Anything that helps bring the on-going narative more visible is a good thing. Obviously these missions/quests would still be purely optional, but if they are well done, I can see them being reasonably popular.
The current Ram Tah missions could have been cut into a number of different missions instead of just one mission and have the trip to the guardian structure as the final mission. It also means that if you fail in one of the missions in the chain, you don't lose all of your progress (which has happened to me and now I just won't bother with the latest Ram Tah mission).
I am not expecting great big story arcs, just something smaller that complimenets what is happening in game.
What this game needs isn’t “quests” or “hand crafted” experiences. How many times can the same world be saved from the same threat? How many times can the same princess be kidnapped? Exactly how long is the queue to save Millenium City from the threat of the Thargoids today?
What it needs is an expansion upon what systems are already there, and ensuring that those systems work together for a seamless and dynamic experience. Allow players to acquire contacts with factions who specialize in the kinds of missions the player has shown an aptitude for and interest in. Have factions offer competing missions, where the first to complete their objective “wins.” Heck, if instancing worked half decently in this game, players could go head to head in Open, while NPCs would spawn in all modes as “opposition” for both players.
Let factions offer missions that build upon what’s been done before, both by the player, as well as by other players. If a player takes a mission that takes out another faction’s generator, have that faction request the parts necessary to fix it.
I’m not interested in a hero’s tale. I have single player games for that kind of experience. I’m interested in Inga’s tale, and a living world that reacts to her actions can create that take far better than scores of “content creators” laboring to keep the supply of “hand created quests” ahead of the voracious player demand.
What it needs is an expansion upon what systems are already there, and ensuring that those systems work together for a seamless and dynamic experience. Allow players to acquire contacts with factions who specialize in the kinds of missions the player has shown an aptitude for and interest in. Have factions offer competing missions, where the first to complete their objective “wins.” Heck, if instancing worked half decently in this game, players could go head to head in Open, while NPCs would spawn in all modes as “opposition” for both players.
Let factions offer missions that build upon what’s been done before, both by the player, as well as by other players. If a player takes a mission that takes out another faction’s generator, have that faction request the parts necessary to fix it.
I’m not interested in a hero’s tale. I have single player games for that kind of experience. I’m interested in Inga’s tale, and a living world that reacts to her actions can create that take far better than scores of “content creators” laboring to keep the supply of “hand created quests” ahead of the voracious player demand.
The mechanics to do this already exists. I gave some really good detailed examples a while ago. Using “wrinkles” (those mid-mission pop ups everybody seems to ignore) and mission chains, we could have some great full-season long “quest” missions you could stop doing at each chain link if you wanted and comeback to later.
Well, tbh I don't really play elite anymore. I unplugged my Hotas some 4 months ago and tried to forget about elite. What still lingers though is the promise of what Elite COULD be. The game promised in the kickstarter campaign is the game I would like to play and with every update I keep hoping that its promise will be delivered (in some small part). Bottom line is that I still care for the potential game that's hiding somewhere in the current game and keep hoping for that butterfly to pop its cocoon.
I suppose they do to a degree, but the current implementation of them is extremely shallow.
There's rarely anything engaging about those 'wrinkles' that occasionally pop-up. In my experience, it's usually a destination change... wooo, fun.
The current chained-mission system is also quite shallow. It's only a chain of two, and the follow-up mission many times doesn't even have much relation to the source mission.
My concern is that they seemed to make a big deal about that chained mission system prior to release, and it turned out to be a very watered down feature. I was hopeful for a while that was just phase 1 for simply getting it into the game. But considering it hasn't been touched since, and there's been no hints of changes coming, i gave up hope.
Maybe it's one of the undisclosed new Q4 features...
I would like more mission variety (El Grillo had some good ideas), and chained missions (with more than 2 stages) that are a cohesive set of missions, and some with branching decision arcs. Like missions where you could choose to actually save a target as opposed to assassinate them, which would send the mission chain down a different path.
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Nicely put.
I appreciate your candour. So many would just rage and I am grateful that you didn't.
There are a lot of people who use the word 'potential' about this game, how it could be a deeper, richer experience. Some of those people spend hours creating videos to make their point, which is then pulled apart within minutes of becoming available for peer review. Analogies abound
Do not hope that a game will change into something you will like, just accept it for what it is. With every update my main hope is that what I already like about the game I paid for and currently enjoy is not ripped up by those that want it to be like another game.
The custom stuff is already in the game. Generally I ignore it. If there were more I would not mind, no one plays the whole game. But there are loads of games with a story line, there are very few like ED. I'd like what's special about this game to be preserved. I'd like to be able to continue to play the game I bought and continue to enjoy.
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That’s largely what I addressed in my previous exposè, using the wrinkle mechanism to provide player choices - deliver the slaves or free the slaves, as well as using the chained mission system to allow the player to continue a particular mission sequence, take a break and do something else and introduce branches based on the player’s decisions. Total mission time for one of the epic missions might be 4 weeks, with a final payout at completion, but each leg of the mission also has it’s own payoff as well.
You might start off hauling a few tons of scrap metal, get a wrinkle option to deliver that scrap somewhere else for a few k-credits more, find out that scrap is being made into weapons you can then deliver elsewhere or (wrinkle) turn over to the authorities in that system - getting paid at each step and at the very end wind up being the heroic pilot who helped arm an insurrection, or the loyalist who exposed a rebel conspiracy, with a reward at the end as well.
You might start off hauling a few tons of scrap metal, get a wrinkle option to deliver that scrap somewhere else for a few k-credits more, find out that scrap is being made into weapons you can then deliver elsewhere or (wrinkle) turn over to the authorities in that system - getting paid at each step and at the very end wind up being the heroic pilot who helped arm an insurrection, or the loyalist who exposed a rebel conspiracy, with a reward at the end as well.