Hardware & Technical Virpil VPC WarBRD DELTA - Official thread

[IceFire122]

Disclaimer: This post is no meant as advertisement, I am simply excited about the Joystick.

It has finally arrived and it is great for Elite Dangerous.
The Virpil (VPC) Constellation Delta grip with the WarBRD Base:

Having pre-ordered in April, when a May/June launch was targeted, I had to wait a long time for the product launch (not so much for the actual shipment (<1week)). All I have to say is, it was worth the wait.
Virpil is pretty much unknown outside hardcore Flightsim-communities, as they started only 2016 and are situated in Belarus (EU Shop/Shipping with Customs handling by Virpil from Lithuania).

It is the first VPC product specifically developed for the Space-SIM market and has everything I (and most ED players) need:

• All contactless magnetic sensors
• Build in twist function
• Dual stage trigger
• Additional trigger button
• Two 4-way and one 8-way HATs, with additional press down function
• High precision analogue stick and scroll wheel with press down function
• Exchangeable cams and springs to adjust centering force for the X/Y axis.
• Ambidextrous design (great for dual sticks or left handed persons)
• Probably some things I forgot, like e.g. the RGB LED in the top, which can be turned down/off

Initial owner thoughts:
In contrast to other Joysticks I owned, setup took a bit time (initial assembly stick to base/base to plate, firmware update, cam exchange). Elite players should feel a familiar learning curve with these initial activities. Without especially the firmware upgrade (simply some button presses in the downloadable software), the twist on my stick was not working correctly. Imagine my disappointment after the long wait and facing a potential return shipment for replacement. Luckily, I bit myself through the initial phase an got everything working (feel free to ask me about these steps).

After the Elite control setup, I took the stick to a test flight. First things first: You don't own a Russian type stick, it owns you. Even with low progression cams and soft springs, you need quite a bit of force to move the stick. This is also true for the twist, which helps you to avoid accidental inputs. Your reward for the extra force will be an excellent precision. I never owned a Warthog (no twist) and cannot compare, but it probably is the same level.
The other thing about Russian type sticks is, that they are build to last with metal mechanics and ball bearings inside. Of course, as a new owner, I have no experience with the durability yet, but owners of the other/earlier VPC products are apparently very satisfied.
The height/length of the stick helps with the precision and the force needed, but should be considered in ones personal Simpit design. I am still experimenting here, but found at least a workable solution for now.
It is a bit pricey, but so is a Warthog+Pedals. I was looking for a Warthog with twist and thing, I made the right choice with Virpil. I suggest getting the CosmoSim cams, once they become available for the WarBRD base. I got them as pre-order delay compensation. Currently the CosmoSim cams are only available for the other bases.
In summary, it is a gib fun to fly with the stick.

Links:
Review by NOOBIFIER1337: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CwhET4yYKc&t=392s
Cam/spring tutorial by NOOBIFIER1337: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-uplr6AXZU&t=66s
Shop (Mods: feel free to delete this link, if you think this is too close to advertisement): https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-delta-flightstick.html

To make this an official owners thread, I am asking you to add your experiences to this thread. Please excuse me for now, as my right arm needs some training...

EDIT: Feel free to ask questions about the stick, even as a non-owner.

 

[Gully Foyle]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Mongoos-T50-Throttle-are-now-up-for-pre-order

 

[IceFire122]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Mongoos-T50-Throttle-are-now-up-for-pre-order

Thank you for linking to the old thread. This thread was maybe, what pointed me to Virpil in the first place. After one week of heavy use, I am still very satisfied with the stick.

Some minor points, which will hopefully be improved in future versions:
-The first trigger stage is louder compared to all the other buttons. According to another review this is due to the hollow areas in the top of the stick. As my CH Pro Throttle buttons are equally loud, I do not care about it very much.
-The twist started to make a bit of noise after a couple of hours, which was easily fixed by some lubricant on the spring area in the grip.
-Due to the twist motions/forces, the coupling to the base might unscrew over time and change the stick to base rotational alignment. As it is the original coupling design, it was not redesigned to compensate for the twist. The advantage: The base can be used with other grips from Virpil and probably a Warthog grip. The disadvantage: the user should check/adjust the coupling tightness every couple of hours.

I consider the above point minor and not impacting my experience, but others might find one of the points a disadvantage. Hence, I thought, I mention these.

 

[Han Zulu]

I got mine two days ago, but I can't get it to work. The vpc_joy_set keeps on saying "not sync". I click the "load device profile" and get the green "sync", but as soon as I try to calibrate and save calibration, it's goes back to the yellow "not sync". If I try to use the joystick in Elite, everything works except "yaw" (twist) and the center analog joystick. I'm going to try to see if it works better on another computer. I hope the joystick isn't a lemon (my luck, I always get the broken ones, sigh).

--edit: update

Hang on, just gave it another try. Got it working. Basically, after I save profile etc, it'll turn yellow (not sync), but then I just click on the "load device profile" again and get green sync, and somehow now all things reads in Elite. Niiiice!

Now... would it be worth to get the throttle as well?

 

[IceFire122]

Now... would it be worth to get the throttle as well?

I am glad you figured it out. It is the initial quirks, that might put off some people from using this stick. I also had Yaw issues until I updated the Firmware (which can be tricky in itself).

About the throttle:
Do you already own a throttle or not yet?

I already have a CH Pro throttle, which basically has all (and than the Virpil one) controls on the throttle. The CH Pro also has an analogue thumb stick on the throttle, which I use for Vector thrusting. That way, I have a clean distinction between translational movement on the right hand and rotational on the left. For now, I stick to the (less expensive, but quite sturdy) CH Pro.

If you are looking for a new separate throttle, you should look at the features, which one of the following fits your needs most:
-Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle
-CH Pro Throttle
-Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog Dual Throttle
-VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle
I sorted them in their rough pricing order, but think from other user experiences, that all of them are good quality. You could start at the lower end and later decide to upgrade, if necessary.

Or, you could go dual stick instead of a throttle...

 

[Han Zulu]

I am glad you figured it out. It is the initial quirks, that might put off some people from using this stick. I also had Yaw issues until I updated the Firmware (which can be tricky in itself).

Agree. The box didn't come with any instructions at all, for anything, not even how to assemble the handle. It was a little scary. But then, on the other hand, the sturdy metal construction is just amazing. Exactly what I wanted.

About the throttle:
Do you already own a throttle or not yet?

Yeah, I do. It's a thrustmaster, and it's okay, but now I'm starting to think that I'd like a solid high-end there too. Don't like these plastic things.

I already have a CH Pro throttle, which basically has all (and than the Virpil one) controls on the throttle. The CH Pro also has an analogue thumb stick on the throttle, which I use for Vector thrusting. That way, I have a clean distinction between translational movement on the right hand and rotational on the left. For now, I stick to the (less expensive, but quite sturdy) CH Pro.

If you are looking for a new separate throttle, you should look at the features, which one of the following fits your needs most:
-Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle

That's the one I have, and I like it, but just would like to have something more beefy, like pro feel.

-CH Pro Throttle
-Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog Dual Throttle
-VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle

I'll look into CH Pro. sounds like an alternative. I'm also interested in the VPC, but since I'm in US and they're in, well, the other country on the other continent, and we're currently having some political challenges in the world, the credit card company requires me to call it in to approve. Too much hassle.

I sorted them in their rough pricing order, but think from other user experiences, that all of them are good quality. You could start at the lower end and later decide to upgrade, if necessary.

Or, you could go dual stick instead of a throttle...

I kind'a like the thrustmaster throttle. It has the right feel for me, but... plastic. Meh. Want something that will last (or at least looks like it will ). How's the Warthog? Is it solid?

 

[NascentChemist]

Does the analog stick on the Delta feel precise enough to use for vectored thrust?

I want to upgrade to the Delta,Warbird, and VPC throttle, but they don't have enough analog axis. The thumbstick and 'paddle' on my Thrustmaster have really spoiled me.

 

[IceFire122]

Does the analog stick on the Delta feel precise enough to use for vectored thrust?

Yes, compared to my CH Pro ministick, which has some centering repeatability issues and therefore needs are larger deadzone, the Delta's ministick has extremely good centering (<1% acc. to the software). Also, it has a square movement range, giving you full motion in the corners.
What I am no sure about, as it depends on each users had, is whether it is comfortable to use for longer time: The Delta grip needs a bit of force to tilt/twist the full stick and hence gripping force of your hand. While pointing your thumb up for short button presses is fine, it might get uncomfortable, if you use vector thrusting and wild turns together all the time.

 

[IceFire122]

Yeah, I do. It's a thrustmaster, and it's okay, but now I'm starting to think that I'd like a solid high-end there too. Don't like these plastic things.
I'll look into CH Pro. sounds like an alternative.

If you don't like the feel of plastic, the CH Pro might not be for you. On the other hand, it might depend on the type of plastic/surface finish, as you seem fine with the Delta. Also, I am not sure, if one of the throttles actually uses a metal grip.

CH originally makes industrial input devices and uses the same high strength plastic in their Joysticks. I have read stories about CH joysticks lasting for decades. Unfortunately, CH never developed a gaming stick with twist.

Others should respond about the feel of the Warthog throttle.

 

[BurnyBurns]

Unfortunately, CH never developed a gaming stick with twist.

More unfortunately, they never developed any gaming hardware that isn't stuck in 1999/2000. I'd like to see their robust plastic mechanics paired with contactless, more precise sensors. Their products would still be niche, but not one that's become electronically obsolete compared to other sim hardware. Even the much lower priced Thrustmasters throttle/stick seem to be better by now.

 

[Han Zulu]

If you don't like the feel of plastic, the CH Pro might not be for you. On the other hand, it might depend on the type of plastic/surface finish, as you seem fine with the Delta. Also, I am not sure, if one of the throttles actually uses a metal grip.

CH originally makes industrial input devices and uses the same high strength plastic in their Joysticks. I have read stories about CH joysticks lasting for decades. Unfortunately, CH never developed a gaming stick with twist.

Others should respond about the feel of the Warthog throttle.

I heard good things about CH. They make professional devices for industry, so they're everlasting for sure. And yes, there's some plastic on the Virpil as well, but I've tried several models of Thrustmaster and Logitec/Saitec, but haven't been really happy with them. Granted, I haven't gone as far as getting the Warthog etc. I was debating to get that HOTAS set or go Virpil. We'll see if I'm happy going forward, but so far, the quality seems to be really up there. Even got spare parts to replace springs and such in the kit. Really hardcore.

 

[IceFire122]

Even got spare parts to replace springs and such in the kit. Really hardcore.

Please check the videos (e.g. Cam/Spring setup tutorial) linked in the OP. These are not spare parts.

The dark springs are meant to increase the centering force, in case you add an extension tube between base and grip. The other cams are to adjust the centering force build up to your liking. Talk about a custom setup options.

 

[IceFire122]

I just found out, that Virpil investigated earlier to add a thumb ministick to their throttle. Unfortunately, they concetrate on the non-ministick version for now.

Hm, as the Constellation Delta was only the first Constellation product ("lower" price range and targeted for space sims), there is hope for a Constellation throttle later...

 

[Han Zulu]

I just found out, that Virpil investigated earlier to add a thumb ministick to their throttle. Unfortunately, they concetrate on the non-ministick version for now.

Hm, as the Constellation Delta was only the first Constellation product ("lower" price range and targeted for space sims), there is hope for a Constellation throttle later...

A Constellation throttle! That sounds promising.

 

[IceFire122]

A Constellation throttle! That sounds promising.

There is just hope, as nothing is announced as of yet. Even if there is something in the future, it might take more than a year.

 

[NascentChemist]

I just found out, that Virpil investigated earlier to add a thumb ministick to their throttle. Unfortunately, they concetrate on the non-ministick version for now.

Hm, as the Constellation Delta was only the first Constellation product ("lower" price range and targeted for space sims), there is hope for a Constellation throttle later...

Was there any mention of when they would produce the throttle with an analog stick?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Was there any mention of when they would produce the throttle with an analog stick?

Apart from a few on this forum who keep repeating "They will make a throttle with an analog thumbstick".
Nada.
Not one word from even 'close to virpil sources.'
Certainly nothing since they released the designs for the constellation grip, that does have a solid analog stick on it.
So in a way it might just be left there.
If it will be a full new throttle, then it will be at least a year if not more before it is available.

That said a decent high quality analog thumb stick would be brilliant for any flight sim, not just space sims.
And admittedly.
We are looking at $800+ hotas setup here.
I currently have a mongoos t50 stick and gimbal and love it.
I also have an order in for the throttle and a constellation grip.

And I expect to probably use that as my main grip, not just for elite but also for DCS where I mostly fly helicopters. Where an ambidextrous stick could be very nice.

 

[BurnyBurns]

Apart from a few on this forum who keep repeating "They will make a throttle with an analog thumbstick".
Nada.
Not one word from even 'close to virpil sources.'

Here's the link to the Virpil rep's comment on reddit:

7 months ago
The first version will not have an analogue stick.

We will follow up with an analogue thumbstick version shortly afterwards

But since the "shortly afterwards" hasn't been clarified further so far... Could be anywhere from next month to end of next year, even though it sounds like they at least intend to release it sooner.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

So one 7 month old comment on reddit.

And unless this is a quick swap out mod for one of the hats.
I doubt we will see one in less than a year.

 

[NascentChemist]

So one 7 month old comment on reddit.

And unless this is a quick swap out mod for one of the hats.
I doubt we will see one in less than a year.

I wonder if the fabled VKB throttle will be out first? All the info that I can find on it is from January...

Hell, I can't even tell if the VKB throttle will have a thumb stick! Anyone know of a full list of its inputs?