Lestat
Banned
Hum. A few weeks Ya I would agree. But I still getting 1,650,000 credits each.
Void Opal Mining - Broken?
- Thread starter defekt
- Start date
Since credits became meaningless through a good amount of gold rushes, FDev decided to no longer fight it but create a permanent credit incoume source so we never have to worry about credits again. The real currency of value are materials anyways. A fully G5 sidey is probably better than a fully A graded vanilla Anaconda.
I think a supply vs demand process would work well for mining (as well as many other play styles). Allows for the wily to find gold rushes but if a market is flooded prices should quickly tank.
Exploration payouts increased massively in 3.3 too, although that's not a supply & demand issue & arguably the payout was too low before (I don't claim this).
Exploration payouts increased massively in 3.3 too, although that's not a supply & demand issue & arguably the payout was too low before (I don't claim this).
Lestat
Banned
Yes they caved to the people who are unwilling to work for credits.
The huge profits for Void Opal mining was just one aspect of a seemingly needlessly half-baked mining revision. The PWA scanner seems all but (otherwise) pointless, as does the distribution of Surface and Subsurface deposits which most folks will never bother with.
Very odd design and release again from FD IMHO... Don't understand how it made it through design meetings and internal testing like this.
Deleted member 38366
D
In combination with the required BGS states, the income curve is indeed wrecked to the upside... but at least those 1.5-1.7M Cr/ton Void Opals rest on dynamic BGS requirements and "pristine sell locations" come and go accordingly.
Other than that, it's arguably the usual FDev "Balancing" and the limits of the rubber-banded, scripted fake Economy.
Prices don't tank even if demand has been dumped to zero and a place is sitting on 25.000tons of oversupply that'd last the Economy several months
(per-commodity script boundaries just remain script boundaries, it can't replace a true supply & demand chain with all its consequences and dependencies)
You can go on a cherry-picking Exploration Trip or run profitable Missions for a full week - or spend 2 hours in a Void Opal hotspot and then sell at the right places.
PS.
Does anyone even still run Mining Missions other than maybe for BGS purposes?
Why mine 25tons of standard ores (or upto xxxx tons Wing Mission) when it's easily 50x more profitable to crack a few rocks?
Other than that, it's arguably the usual FDev "Balancing" and the limits of the rubber-banded, scripted fake Economy.
Prices don't tank even if demand has been dumped to zero and a place is sitting on 25.000tons of oversupply that'd last the Economy several months
(per-commodity script boundaries just remain script boundaries, it can't replace a true supply & demand chain with all its consequences and dependencies)
You can go on a cherry-picking Exploration Trip or run profitable Missions for a full week - or spend 2 hours in a Void Opal hotspot and then sell at the right places.
PS.
Does anyone even still run Mining Missions other than maybe for BGS purposes?
Why mine 25tons of standard ores (or upto xxxx tons Wing Mission) when it's easily 50x more profitable to crack a few rocks?
If the revised mining mechanics were only used due to extreme payouts, it would proof that the design is not that good. Fun part of the game on the other hand are used, despite paying badly, like Wing assassination missions.
This. Totally this. An hour of Void opal mining and I can eat all they rebuys I like for a week.
I do mining missions when I feel like mining...yep.
One of my two mining ships is not even equipped to do core mining, but has a much larger cargo capacity. What I usually do is go out with the goal of filling up with 50% painite and fill up the other half my capacity with other miscellenous things that are good for mining missions. I unload everything but painite at my base, using missions for whatever I have that has missions available, then switch to my python trade ship to haul the painite farther afield where the value is highest.
I rarely use my other miner that is equipped for core mining. I enjoy laser mining (and also go for subsurface and surface deposits) more than I enjoy core mining....so I do it more, it's that simple. Profit per hour is irrelevant in what is a game...I play it for fun and kind of feel badly for anyone who doesn't.
Mind you, I do realize that maximizing profits per hour IS fun for some people and also realize that some (if not most) people also consider core mining more fun then laser mining. I'm just saying my perspective is different. I'm only 6 weeks into the game and I don't feel that core mining is so far unbalanced that other options aren't still viable...I've made plenty of credits without exploiting void opals.
Deleted member 38366
D
Yeah, I get where you're coming from.
Been doing the same occasionally for a change of pace/experience, was just musing about the Gameplay-balanced income curves.
I'd sure like to use my conventional Mining Lasers more, without knowing that I'm just doing it for fun and could be 10+ times more profitable (Painite being a bit of an exception) by looking at a few cores.
Been doing the same occasionally for a change of pace/experience, was just musing about the Gameplay-balanced income curves.
I'd sure like to use my conventional Mining Lasers more, without knowing that I'm just doing it for fun and could be 10+ times more profitable (Painite being a bit of an exception) by looking at a few cores.
I don't feel void opals are 10x more profitable. The time investment is higher. It takes longer to find void opal rocks that are core crackable then it does to find painite rocks that can be lasered. ( I'm talking density of available asteroids, I am completely familiar with the principles of identifying likely core crackable rocks and how to do it relatively quickly). It also takes longer to get equal tonage of ore. And it takes longer to get it to market unless you consistently base yourself near a high profit station.
Yes, void opals are more profitable...but it really isn't by as many magnitudes as all that. Of course, someone can go out of their way to base themselves out of a system near where a high sell station is located that is also near-ish a good ring with overlapping void opal hotspots. Maximizing the profit/time balance by doing this will really cut out some of the time costs of the void opal method....but at that point they are centering their entire game around void opal mining. No thanks.
Last edited:
The mining is one of the better designed features. It actually caters for 3 different preferences:
Crackable rocks for void materials (doesn't have to be void opals exclusively);
Surface and subsurface deposits;
Stick with the old tried-and-tested method before 3.3 using the mining laser.
The PWA also identifies high yielding rocks that do not contain voids.
If only exploration had gone the same way !
Last edited:
Yes and no...
Consider why financial based mining is basically motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode?
Consider why many miners don't even bother fitting Subsurface Missiles?
Consider why many miners only use the PWA to help find the next motherlode, because highlighting "here be new mechanics", instead of, "here's stuff you might be interested in mining", isn't ideal?
And let's not even get in the supposed depletion mechanics which don't seem very well implemented...
Game mechanics and BGS aside (that's a large discussion). The money from Void Opal mining is currently spot on, it's in a very good place. People have been pushing the narrative for far too long that "players need to spends weeks / months / years to earn credits", and that notion has ultimately been very damaging for the game. The high credit earnings are a massive improvement, because they allow people to do the things they enjoy.
It's interesting to me that the only place I see complaints about "high earnings", is here on the forums. Comments on various YouTube channels, and all over Reddit as well as other communities remain in support of the high earnings from Void Opal mining.
It's interesting to me that the only place I see complaints about "high earnings", is here on the forums. Comments on various YouTube channels, and all over Reddit as well as other communities remain in support of the high earnings from Void Opal mining.
Possibly, but clearly VO mining is in such a "good place", any other form of mining is all but made pointless from a CR point of view? Is that the desired a good outcome? Is that a well designed outcome?
Surely a number of avenues should be open for CMDRs to wisely choose how to make a good profit via mining, not simply one which all but makes other forms of mining other that motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode pointless?
Indeed, I have wonder if this huge BGS price hike was thrown in simply to help distract CMDRs from the fact that the rest of the mining gameplay doesn't work very well. ie: Imagine if the VO avenue wasn't there, and financial mining wasn't based around motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode. What other avenue would you take that could for example use the new PWA and regular surface and subsurface gameplay? It just doesn't work very well...
Mining should be finding a nice non-depleted Hot Spot, and mining it via a PWA that helps you find what you're looking for, irrespective of form (surface or subsurface etc). You'd be mining plenty of surface deposits, with sub-surface deposits then being a nice healthy lucrative find, and a motherlode being a true iciing on the cake (not the be all and end all). The whole mechanic is skewed at the moment, with the PWA functionalty underlining it!
Possibly, but clearly VO mining is in such a "good place", any other form of mining is all but made pointless from a CR point of view? Is that the desired a good outcome? Is that a well designed outcome?
Surely a number of avenues should be open for CMDRs to wisely choose how to make a good profit via mining, not simply one which all but makes other forms of mining other that motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode pointless?
Indeed, I have wonder if this huge BGS price hike was thrown in simply to help distract CMDRs from the fact that the rest of the mining gameplay doesn't work very well. ie: Imagine if the VO avenue wasn't there, and financial mining wasn't based around motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode. What other avenue would you take that could for example use the new PWA and regular surface and subsurface gameplay? It just doesn't work very well...
Mining should be finding a nice non-depleted Hot Spot, and mining it via a PWA that helps you find what you're looking for, irrespective of form (surface or subsurface etc). You'd be mining plenty of surface deposits, with sub-surface deposits then being a nice healthy lucrative find, and a motherlode being a true iciing on the cake (not the be all and end all). The whole mechanic is skewed at the moment, with the PWA functionalty underlining it!
Agreed. That's why I avoided the conversation of game design in my post, it's a big topic. Personally I don't think Void Opal mining is broken in terms of payout. It's most other things that have problems with far too low payouts.
Agreed... Financially, I think a good mining location/find (ie: A nice non-depleted hotspot, with a valuable material, on a good day) should happily dish out good CRs... No question there. And such a find should be benefitial for Wings to mine down until it's significantly depleted, and if its a large enough find, say big enough for a Squadron to park there Fleet Carrier there to "claim it" so only they can mine it...
But I just don't get what happened to FD's new mining mechanics. It appears to be simple enough concept to get rightish surely?:-
- Every Hotspot should have a "Reserves" value (shown to CMDRs when they scan the hotspot/ring) which as it's mined and "depleted" drops.
- Hotspots should deplete as mined, and (very slowly) regenerates over weeks(s).
- Depending how depleted it is, the quantity of the Hotspot material (and a couple of other associated materials) should appear more/less often in asteroids (ie: The "Reserves" value skews the dice rolls).
- Surface deposits should form the basis of mining, with subsurface be a nice lucrative bonus, and then a motherlode being a "thank the Gods of mining" find!
- And the PWA should help find those asteroids with what you're looking for to mine, irrespective of format (legacy, surface, subsurface or motherlode), not asteroid after asteroid after asteroid with the new mining mechanics on comprised of nothing you're interested in mining.
Personally i feel the pay outs on VO are fine, its just that they are far to easy to find. If VO where 1/10 as common then it would make them more of a thrill to discover. I dont personally feel that time invested in the hunt is a bad thing, the more someone invests in a goal the sweeter the reward when you hit pay dirt.
VO's are the go to activity in Elite now to the point of every other game activity being brushed aside.
Make void opels much harder to find, but keep the pay outs rich as they are now for mother loads... but also develope mechanics for other aspects of gameplay which can also make them better earners (although not so much.. if its the only activity you persue in game). So it forces people to diversify how they play Elite and therefore broaden their experiance.
Or just make mining in general a more logical even mechanic, not just based around VO motherlode-->motherlode-->motherlode?
There was the chance for FD to do that during design and internal testing, but something seemingly happened
ie: I should be able to scout around and surely find a Palladium Hotspot that's worth my time from a CR point of view compared to mining income in general? ie: Where I can use the PWA to get a good income via Surface, Subsurface, and I'm lucky enough a couple of motherlodes? And then, once the Hotspot has been depleted enough, I should need to go and find another location...? [With the Hotspot in question taking weeks to get back upto 100% reserves]
Consider with that, then the odd Gold Rush being induced by the BGS or via a CG by offering a 10-50% price hike on something? Or FD sprinkling some particularly rich Hotspots across a region, where the dice are even more skewed in favour of finding what you're looking for. And these naturally deplete down to nothing and are then gone forever!