VR is a niche (2)

Creative people are inspired by creativity.

It was already in the last post which you obviously didn't finish reading. How is games being more visually stimulating going to reduce the amount of ideas a person who is already an inspired creative artist has? It won't. At the very worst it'll prevent some of the lackluster "creativity" that exists everywhere these days. In a sense it will weed out the crap or those with only enough creativity to produce crap
 
Creative people are inspired by creativity.

It was already in the last post which you obviously didn't finish reading. How is games being more visually stimulating going to reduce the amount of ideas a person who is already an inspired creative artist has? It won't. At the very worst it'll prevent some of the lackluster "creativity" that exists everywhere these days. In a sense it will weed out the crap or those with only enough creativity to produce crap
Maybe we're talking past each other but if you follow how gaming has changed over the last 3 decades you hardly can ignore a significant shift from actively imagining and playing a game towards passively consuming game content. VR will worsen this effect. I'm talking about the mainstream here, not a few exceptions. When it comes to the future of VR then it's the mainstream that matters, not a few geeks.
 
No I get what you mean. I just think there are too many mediocre devs being hired onto projects. I think they flooded the market and it's the bigger companies that don't want to risk what isn't already popular when they invest in a new game being made. Their first concern is whether it will make money right away, enough to validate paying the devs, over how long people will play it.

Original, creative ideas don't, at first, seem like they will catch because they don't necessarily already have a fanbase market. So the publishers look for stuff that's like the popular titles and then try to implement originality.

I think this is why games like elite and no mans sky and other styles like ark were initially made by smaller groups of people and kickstarters instead of big companies and investment groups.

If that makes sense
 
Maybe we're talking past each other but if you follow how gaming has changed over the last 3 decades you hardly can ignore a significant shift from actively imagining and playing a game towards passively consuming game content. VR will worsen this effect. I'm talking about the mainstream here, not a few exceptions. When it comes to the future of VR then it's the mainstream that matters, not a few geeks.
I don't think VR will make that paradigm go away. There will always be what I would call "interactive movie" titles (COD excels at this) where VR might enhance that experience, by putting the player down in small set piece environments that are chained together into a storytelling whole. Then there will be more open world simulation based titles, which are massively enhanced in their immersiveness (is that a word?) by VR. There are also probably new experience types that haven't been developed for yet or have had "tech demos" developed for them.
What I do see is that the simulation type titles have had a bit of a renaissance since VR hit the market, which is great news for me personally because I like those titles, but I also see VR selling more units of all three title types.
VR's problem is its easy to dismiss or troll against, as the only way to fully get VR, is to try and play VR, which makes marketing harder as how do you get across the feeling of "being Neil Armstrong on the moon" unless you have been in VR to "feel" something closer to what that must have been like either stepping outside you SRV in Elite or trying the Apollo 11 VR title.
Its what I would call a classic "slow burn" product that is almost certainly here to stay now, but a killer app is probably not going to exist to accelerate adoption, because how do you do market that without people trying it first?
 
Maybe we're talking past each other but if you follow how gaming has changed over the last 3 decades you hardly can ignore a significant shift from actively imagining and playing a game towards passively consuming game content. VR will worsen this effect. I'm talking about the mainstream here, not a few exceptions. When it comes to the future of VR then it's the mainstream that matters, not a few geeks.
I'm picking up my new Caterham 7 tomorrow. Should I just cancel it, go lie in an empty bath, close my eye and make car noises?
 
this generation of VR reminds me a bit of when the playstation was first released. when the PS1 came out the first couple of games where just like the old cartridge games because nobody had explored fully what the system was capable of. so games where still side scrolling platformers with passwords to get back where you were because saving wasn't actually that common back then. then they started doing full 3d environments with games like tomb raider, crash bandicoot and others and the market exploded. I think VR is going to be the same. the first generation of VR from the 80's and 90's was super heavy, expensive, and pretty much just a proof of concept. it's taken years to get it to a manageable size, price, and functionality. now it needs to be explored before real development can begin. this is why the biggest VR games content-wise are actually games where VR was added in after release. Elite dangerous is one example but fallout 4 and skyrim are also examples of this. most VR games at this time are, again, just proofs of concepts. blade and sorcery is a good example of a working proof of concept without any real "content". but imagine the next generation of games to integrate that sort of thing. imagine the full content of an elder scrolls game with the combat of blade and sorcery. I think that is where things are heading. and as VR becomes more accessible the market with grow.
 
VR is the Beta Max of PC gaming! Maybe the future of movies. But until someone comes up with a user friendly way to control games while wearing the headset it ain't goin' anywhere,.

VR -> View attachment 140030
Especially true of Elite Dangerous.

It looks great, but you are relying on mapping all controls to your joystick controller and/or fumbling around for the keyboard to activate functions.

As for typing messages to other cmdrs that's a serious hit or miss arrangement and it's harder since last update as it forgets what you typed if you look away.

I have two playstyles, one for 'normal' and one for VR. I still love the game in VR, but....

🙄
 
It looks great, but you are relying on mapping all controls to your joystick controller and/or fumbling around for the keyboard to activate functions.
Even in the 2D game you would ideally want all of your bindings mapped to your HOTAS (assuming you use one) / control pad or failing that a memorable set of keys on your board. No matter how you play the game, VR or 2D, the last thing you want to be doing is actually looking for a button or key, using ship functions should mostly come from muscle memory and not "look, find and press". A lot of people, again both VR and 2D players also use voice attack if they're short on buttons for the less important ship functions.

For Elite at least, I cannot agree that VR presents any additional issues in the sense of using ship functions providing you have them configured correctly. Outside of Elite some genres of games are out right enhanced by VR controls - FP Shooters for example are vastly superiour to their 2D counterparts in terms of both gun play and control. Aside from that, Lone Echo in my opinion shows just how well VR controls can work in a game, the control scheme in that title was simply outstanding.

As for typing messages to other cmdrs that's a serious hit or miss arrangement and it's harder since last update as it forgets what you typed if you look away.
Typing could be better in Elite, but that is an Elite specific issue which could easily be remedied by Frontier but they're not interested. Oculus Dash helps Rifts users though. In terms of your actual complaint, I'm pretty sure that if your comms menu isn't set to 'look activated' it will stay open when you look away and as such your text will not vanish, I've not played in some time but I'm pretty sure I've never had that issue with my comms menu which is set to button activated like all of the other UI panels.

I have two playstyles, one for 'normal' and one for VR. I still love the game in VR, but....
I have one - VR :D I wouldn't play the game in 2D if I'm honest.
 
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Especially true of Elite Dangerous.

It looks great, but you are relying on mapping all controls to your joystick controller and/or fumbling around for the keyboard to activate functions.

As for typing messages to other cmdrs that's a serious hit or miss arrangement and it's harder since last update as it forgets what you typed if you look away.

I have two playstyles, one for 'normal' and one for VR. I still love the game in VR, but....

🙄
Never heard of VoiceAttack? The very minimal control issues caused by VR were all solved years ago. Search YouTube for the instructional video on how to control the maps. Improvise, adapt and overcome.

Also, its so pathetic that people in this game won’t use the voice comm system fitted to every ship.
 
First 900hrs on PS4, 300hrs+ on PC now, the latter exclusively in VR. Some observations;

Never going flat again with ED.

I have all the controls I need mapped to a mouse and a throttle. Also, even without VR I don't look at the keyboard when I'm typing.

Games, mainstream, all that. Yes it will happen, but to a limited extent -- HOTAS and wheels have been around forever, not in every single home where you can find a Playstation or a gaming PC, yet nobody's questioning whether making such peripherals will survive as a business. So while I think there's always a place for VR in games, I'm not sure 100% of games are worth designing around VR specific concerns and/or limitations. And that's OK.

VR in general? Not going away. I see this every day at work as I'm in the B2B VR business. Traditional companies in industries like AEC, medical, electric power etc., are having specialized VR applications built for visualization/simulation, training (a LOT), remote collaboration, and so on. Companies are pouring millions after millions into the VR industry. It's just that it's not reported by IGN or showcased on Twitter. It's all happening in the boring business applications domain, and most of it behind closed doors.
 
Honestly, I cannot imagine Elite without VR at this point. I have 300 hrs in the game, and 280 of those are in VR. It completely changes the game for me.

Now I grant that setting up your controls is paramount. I run a dual joystick HOSAS setup, but I have found that every function that I would ever need is quickly and easily accessed by efficiently mapping to the sticks. I have full analog 6DOF movement, plus single-press access to roughly 50 functions and multi-press access to another 20 or so functions. Granted, I have nice sticks. However even with my original HOSAS setup which cost a total of $70, I had access to 36 single-press binds. Furthermore, I am a touch typist, so typing isn't all that difficult for me, and Elite doesn't require it all that often.

I have two other squadron members that also play in VR. One with sticks, and one with KB+Mouse. Both have converted fully to VR-only play.

I understand that VR is not for everyone, and I respect that. I neither subscribe to the "VR is the way of the future" nor to the "VR destroys societies" philosophies. To me it is about finding what works for each individual. All I can offer is my own anecdotal experience that Elite VR propelled my experience in this game exponentially.
 
VR in general? Not going away. I see this every day at work as I'm in the B2B VR business. Traditional companies in industries like AEC, medical, electric power etc., are having specialized VR applications built for visualization/simulation, training (a LOT), remote collaboration, and so on. Companies are pouring millions after millions into the VR industry. It's just that it's not reported by IGN or showcased on Twitter. It's all happening in the boring business applications domain, and most of it behind closed doors.
This is the most important part. Casual gamers may not be rushing to embrace VR, but the business world is. I realized that last year when four VR devices arrived at our store for training purposes, and about 200 people got their first taste of what VR can be like. We can’t keep the PSVR in stock these days.
 
No you aren't. Buy a Rift S then compare it to the completely incomparable huge screen.
Well I do enjoy the experience since I logged over 1000 hours in ED with it but I'll will have to try VR in the future !

I am also wondering how ED will deal with VR if space legs drop in 2020 ? It's hard for me to visualize how the transition between being always sit looking around VS running and looking around works.
 
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