WARNING! Do NOT(?) create Unclassified Relics! (THEORY)

[Arsen Cross]

Alright so the Proteus Wave was fired off by Salvation yesterday and several details have stuck with me....

My Observations:

• The Proteus Wave uses a Thargoid Surface Site as the base of the weapon.
• When you compare an Unclassified Relic side by side with a regular Guardian Relic the Unclassified Relic has additional damage and charring and appears to be malfunctioning.
• An extremely large amount of guardian technology was gathered and required to prepare the weapon. The subsequent lack of presence of these significant quantities of guardian materials in the news broadcast indicates that these materials were likely "consumed" and any remains disposed of.
• The map room from the news broadcast from the firing yesterday appears completely unmodified and no guardian technology is visually present (pause Proteus Wave Fires video @ 1:12).
• The exterior of the Thargoid Surface Site also lacks any visual indication of Guardian technology or human modification (pause Proteus Wave Fires video @ 1:21).
• The Thargoid Surface Sites super-structure is clearly the body of the weapon and the map room, with an activated map, appears to be the heart of the weapon.
• When the weapon fired there was no indication of a Thargoid attack on the weapon itself.
• The power - and permanence - of the Proteus Waves blast was dramatically different between when Salvation and his team fired the weapon and when the Thargoids fired it.
• In August 3302 Galnet released an article which mentioned rumors of Thargoids having a collective consciousness or "hive mind".
• As early as 3111 the Thargoids deviated from their previously normal immediately-hostile behavior and were observing the researchers activities instead of being immediately hostile; with Carver speculating the Thargoids might have been doing recon and expressing concern.
• After the Proteus Wave incident other Thargoid Surface Sites began converting Guardian Relics into "Unclassified Relics" when fed to the machine.
• The definition of "unclassified" according to google includes "not arranged in or assigned to classes or categories".

My Theories:

• I suspect that as Guardian Relics were not previously classified and have been a known commodity among humanity that the term "Unclassified" does not in fact refer to the Relics having been previously "Classified". As such it is my belief that the definitions aspect of "arranged in or assigned to classes or categories" can be understood in a way similar to how programmers can empty an array of data or removing an index from a database table in a manner similar to consumption.
• I suspect the rumors that Thargoids posses a hive mind are highly likely to be true and I further believe that if it is true that this collective consciousness would extend to all aspects of their organic technology.
• I suspect that the Thargoids, having million(s) of years of experience existing noticed human experimentation with their technology and allowed it as a form of "thinking outside the box"
• I suspect the Proteus Wave was not created by Salvation but is actually a modification of the Thargoid Structures response to the Relics to deplete them of whatever it is that makes up the relics power. The Thargoid Structure is then likely manipulated into using that energy/power/resource in a specific way.
• I suspect that during the process of charging the Proteus Wave the Thargoids only made a fraction of the power/resources available to Salvation and his team with intent of facilitating their own experiments once they felt they no longer had a need for human ingenuity.
• I suspect that by doing this Salvation and his team taught the Thargoids how to manipulate/use Guardian Technology in a way they were unable to either imagine or accomplish without outside influence.
• Based on these suppositions it is my belief that once the weapon was sufficiently "complete" Thargoids used their collective consciousness to over-ride and remove the control they allowed Salvation and his team to have over the Thargoid Surface Site and performed a simultaneous test and demonstration of their new found understanding of the technology.

While I do believe we should provide Ram Tah and Professor Palin as many of these Unclassified Relics as is required to find out exactly what Salvation has taught the Thargoids; I also believe that it is a moral imperative that we limit the production of Unclassified Relics, as best we can as a community, to one specific Thargoid Surface Site, and preferably as far away from the Bubble or Human Inhabited Space as possible.

With that I will leave you with some of my lingering questions these theories have raised:

• Are we indeed "charging" the surface sites when we generate the relics?
• If the site is charged, is there some indicator of its status?
• Once a Proteus Wave is activated, is its effect permanent/how long does it last?
• If we are charging the sites, can Salvation/Azimuth reveal to us how to use the charge to generate a Proteus Wave or will the Thargoid hive mind simply prevent that and consume it and use it against us?
• Will we see a resurgence of "UA Bombing" by human groups charging Thargoid sites in systems with human populations intentionally as part of pro-Thargoid activity?
• If multiple Thargoid Surface sites trigger a Proteus Wave in the same system, will the effect amplify to reach outside the origin system, perhaps effecting entire regions? What about Proteus Waves from systems neighboring each other?

What are your thoughts? Where do you think we should focus our production of Unclassified Relics for research purposes in order to avoid inadvertently charging several Thargoid Surface Sites and having a potential runaway wildfire?

Explosion Comparison Test between Guardian Relic & Unclassified Relic:

Relics Comparison in 4K Extended + Destruction:

 

[DrinkyBird]

So no evidence, just a lot of "I suspect"s culminating in ...another theory.
Think I'll go and make more Tharguardian stuff wherever I want.

 

[Arsen Cross]

So no evidence, just a lot of "I suspect"s culminating in ...another theory.
Think I'll go and make more Tharguardian stuff wherever I want.

The first list of bullet points are my observations on which my theories are based.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

As far away as possible would tend to indicate a site on the far side of the Taurus Dark Region.
If the hypothesis has merit.

 

[aquilla]

Thanks for your theory's very interesting .

 

[DrinkyBird]

The first list of bullet points are my observations on which my theories are based.

None of which relate to how the new green sticks could be charging sites.

 

[cmdr milesred]

not unlike the awakening of a Shadow vessel in B-5

and was my first thought after asking.
That supposedly IMO the Key has more power or different .
So far I am reading that only the relic does this.
And that nothing responds to that Relic any more - Guardian sites..

my next question is , do the thargRelics still explode at all? as in, is there any energy left in them.

Next , I never thought any Thargoid site was dead.
Why would you leave the power on and little robbies fixing things.
My take was they were sick, they buried themselves into the ground and started a new garden and started the healing. dread the day if they ever got healthy again.

 

[Arsen Cross]

None of which relate to how the new green sticks could be charging sites.

Hopefully I've fixed this. I've added what is now the second bullet under My Observations and adjusted what is now bullet 3 as well as added a side by side picture of the two relics for comparison.

As far away as possible would tend to indicate a site on the far side of the Taurus Dark Region.
If the hypothesis has merit.

Awesome, maybe I'll head out there if I need to resupply for experimentation.

my next question is , do the thargRelics still explode at all? as in, is there any energy left in them.

Actually yes, they do. They scream like other Thargoid objects too, which is extremely interesting. Maybe this indicates the relic has been assimilated by the Thargoids? Shudder the thought... but I am now seriously considering an assimilation theory....

I'll be doing more testing.

 

[thistle]

it's green. It's become thargoid.

I'm a simple man, everything should be colour coded.

 

[Ryuto]

Very interesting writing, but, I don't think Frontier thinks that deeply about the lore and plot of the game. I certainly don't think they want us to have any real effect on the overall plot. So, unless this is some RP you're doing yourself it really isn't going to effect whatever they have planned in the long run. Frontier is just telling their story and we're just along for the ride IMO.

 

[Chro]

If the thargoids somehow managed to make their tech work with guardian tech then this is something to worry about, imagine what they could do to improve their own ships? If guardian tech already was a huge step for humanity imagine to a race much more advanced than us? We should supply Palin and Ram Tah with the needed resources to investigate and research these new thargoid-guardian relics

 

[Arsen Cross]

Very interesting writing, but, I don't think Frontier thinks that deeply about the lore and plot of the game. I certainly don't think they want us to have any real effect on the overall plot. So, unless this is some RP you're doing yourself it really isn't going to effect whatever they have planned in the long run. Frontier is just telling their story and we're just along for the ride IMO.

That seems pretty negative to me. Frontier has a history - especially with Thargoids - of implementing odd mechanics and puzzles. Moreover if you remember the Unknown Artefacts the community discovered - by selling the UA's to human stations - that once a certain threshold was met the station would experience service disruption. Players began to weaponize this for BGS PVP and it became known as "UA Bombing", which I reference in my OP. Frontier is not a stranger to re-using concepts with different wrappers.

And while I have a "RP" flair to this because I like to be immersed.. this is a genuine theory about mechanics of the game, not story plot points. It just so happens those mechanics lead to story plot points and potential conflict points. Especially if we wind up with something similar to UA bombing.

If the thargoids somehow managed to make their tech work with guardian tech then this is something to worry about, imagine what they could do to improve their own ships? If guardian tech already was a huge step for humanity imagine to a race much more advanced than us? We should supply Palin and Ram Tah with the needed resources to investigate and research these new thargoid-guardian relics

Yeah this is a scary concept. The way I see it is the Thargoids let Azimuth experiment for a couple years in ways they didn't appear to be willing to do and when they got fruit they made a point. Gotta say I'm extremely excited to see where the Thargoids take us with their response.


Also side note, I did an extended side by side. It's still processing 4K but 1080p is available. Here is the video:

If anyone has ideas for tests let me know. I have several of both relics. I'll continue to update the OP with any evidence/results that supports or disproves the theory.

 

[cmdr milesred]

interesting.

I wonder if maybe the Thargoid AI/computer/brain, whatever.. has worked out a better way to heal and just needed some objects to transfer the yuck to.
This is what the little beepers do, so if one can get 100% cleaned up by ignorant us playing around...
just a thought.

 

[Arsen Cross]

interesting.

I wonder if maybe the Thargoid AI/computer/brain, whatever.. has worked out a better way to heal and just needed some objects to transfer the yuck to.
This is what the little beepers do, so if one can get 100% cleaned up by ignorant us playing around...
just a thought.

I had no idea that's how the scavengers worked. Trippy. I want to know more!

 

[Ryuto]

That seems pretty negative to me. Frontier has a history - especially with Thargoids - of implementing odd mechanics and puzzles. Moreover if you remember the Unknown Artefacts the community discovered - by selling the UA's to human stations - that once a certain threshold was met the station would experience service disruption. Players began to weaponize this for BGS PVP and it became known as "UA Bombing", which I reference in my OP. Frontier is not a stranger to re-using concepts with different wrappers.

And while I have a "RP" flair to this because I like to be immersed.. this is a genuine theory about mechanics of the game, not story plot points. It just so happens those mechanics lead to story plot points and potential conflict points. Especially if we wind up with something similar to UA bombing.

Oh, yeah, I agree it's a negative viewpoint. It's just the one I've come to. I still play the game and I still enjoy it for what it is, but, after all of the cries of adding in more lore and deeper plot and immersion into the universe by Drew Wagar and others have gone unheeded I'm just not very upbeat about how deep things go anymore or Frontier's real focus on the parts of the universe I'd really like to enjoy.

Maybe this is all changing with this new push and making Elite a PC only game with a single codebase? We'll have to see. Hope Springs Eternal and all. I'm still going to pay attention and interact with things as they are in any case. For what it's worth I'm glad you're still enjoying things and pushing mysteries, yourself.

 

[cmdr milesred]

those eggs on the roof...that's them.

Thargoid Ship Maintenance drones and looks like the ship/Factory/building grows them as well as the garden.
I have photos of the insides and surroundings of everything I could see inside the first one I visited.
And due to me believing they are NOT dead, many photos over time to see if changes were visible from high above.
The thing looks like wings of cicada and broken bug legs all around.
expecting it to all be cleaned up and torn down and regrown as time goes by. There is movement, very slow but movement.
tough job for those tiny guys.
at many of the sites, you can follow them underground. all they do is suck up the yuck and spit it out elsewhere.
I guess much of the venting and boils are all about the cleanup too.
But it makes no sense that this continues for hundreds of years, if the creature is dead.
you can see the duct-work that is the tunnels too.

And if Thargoid is related in any way to what we know as cicada, this was the wrong creature to pick on and torture and steal tech from.
1,000 years off, is a nap.
Know your enemy.
I would not want giant angry cicada flying around looking to see what hurt it.
this is not a normal(whatever normal means) insect.
An intelligent several thousand year old Gigantic building size cicada seems like a real bad choice of an enemy.

 

[Keloot]

has anyone went on a mycoid infested thargoid base with the green relic? see what happens drop it by the scavangers

 

[Rainbro]

I think it's simpler than all of this. Salvation just tried mucking around with Thargoid surface sites, and the Thargoids responded with a demonstration of why that's a horrendous idea.

So now, one day after that demonstration, we're meant to immediately go back and start shoving the poorly understood tech of the Guardians into the completely nonunderstood tech of the Thargoids? We're assuming that this isn't some deliberate adaptation by the Thargoids, one day after they let Salvation set up his idiotic weapon inside one of their bases for the purposes of adapting it against him? Let's just do it again, because what pops out is definitely just some random byproduct and not something the Thargoids want to happen? You don't accidentally have your surface sites start reprograming Guardian tech! Study a few if you must but I give it a month at most before some lunatic (there's no shortage) tries to make a gun out of them.

People joke about making a big bug zapper for the Thargoids. Luckily I believe the Thargoids have more restraint than that, but if they did want to make a human zapper, apparently all they have to do is program their bases to distribute green shinies and the humans will be attracted to them like moths to the flame. It's like a caveman wandering into a human military base and stuffing his pockets with the cool glowy rocks they're making.

 

[CMDR Zulu]

Charge them babies up! We need to be taught a lesson. Hopefully the Proteus wave sent out a signal to the Klaxians and the sound we heard at the end of the cut scene was the Klaxians screaming “there you are!”. Here’s to hoping the real threat shows up and the bubble comes under real attack. Our Salvation will be our downfall, please Fdev give us our bad karma 10 fold.

 

[DrinkyBird]

Hopefully I've fixed this. I've added what is now the second bullet under My Observations and adjusted what is now bullet 3 as well as added a side by side picture of the two relics for comparison.

While writing a retort to your observations, I ended up actually writing a novel about how they lead me to my own theories, so enjoy:

The Proteus Wave uses a Thargoid Surface Site as the base of the weapon.

An extremely large amount of guardian technology was gathered and required to prepare the weapon. The subsequent lack of presence of these significant quantities of guardian materials in the news broadcast indicates that these materials were likely "consumed" and any remains disposed of.

The Thargoid Surface Sites super-structure is clearly the body of the weapon and the map room, with an activated map, appears to be the heart of the weapon.

So, the Proteus Wave involved a large amount of Guardian tech, creating some huge blast of Guardian energy to take out Thargoid ships. It was also built on a Thargoid surface site, for whatever reason.
What do (did) Thargoid surface sites do when presented with Guardian items?
Reject them with a very violent reaction.
What did the Proteus Wave site do when presented with a large Guardian energy blast?

The power - and permanence - of the Proteus Waves blast was dramatically different between when Salvation and his team fired the weapon and when the Thargoids fired it.

Reject it with a very violent reaction - this time of Thargoid energy, that seems to have combined with the residual Guardian energy from the Proteus Wave. (video @ 02:18 - notice there's still a big blue orb around the site.)
This energy seems to be still mostly Thargoid - it is green - but with some Guardian left in it. Perhaps the Guardian and Thargoid energy are somehow fighting with eachother? This would explain our Guardian modules being damaged while in HIP 22640, the system has a lot of this energy lingering, and it's interfering with our systems (glitchy HUD) and attacking our Guardian modules. As to why the Guardian energy isn't interfering with our ships - I suppose the Guardians may have even never heard of us, with them having gone exctinct a million years ago (at that time humans were only just leaving Africa, we certainly had no relevance on an interstellar scale!), so their energy is focused on the Thargoids solely. Thargoids certainly know of us by now though.

Anyway, not only did this reaction awaken the Thargoid ships shut down just seconds prior, it also angered some loud screechy thing in hyperspace - and had some adverse affect on the other Thargoid sites:

After the Proteus Wave incident other Thargoid Surface Sites began converting Guardian Relics into "Unclassified Relics" when fed to the machine.

They now accept Guardian technology and "Thargoidify" it, instead of rejecting it.

When you compare an Unclassified Relic side by side with a regular Guardian Relic the Unclassified Relic has additional damage and charring and appears to be malfunctioning.

So this is where I diverge into three theories.

1. The relics were never supposed to be Thargoidified and this is new freak behaviour from the sites, meaning the Thargoids are just as confused about them as we are.
2. The Thargification functionality in the Thargoid Devices used to experiment with combining Guardian technology with their own long long ago, but they gave up on it for whatever reason, and disabled it. This was somehow re-enabled by the Guardian-Thargoid reaction energy blast, and the old violent reaction was their way of covering it up.
3. When presented with a single Guardian Relic, Surface Sites would react with violent pulses/blasts, just on a smaller scale - and it repeated every few seconds, lasting a few minutes. When presented with the Proteus Wave's Guardian energy, it reacted with a violent pulse/blast. Was a superweapon like this what the Thargoids were attempting with their surface sites? Perhaps the Tharguardian blast made the other Thargoid devices bug out, and the fighting energies made the sites more docile, and start adapting the relics instead of using them to power the pulse blasts. And... will the Proteus Wave reaction repeat like surface site reactions did?

Either way, we're confused, the Thargoids are panicked and really not happy with what we did, and we've probably got a bunch of Tharguardian tech coming our way, for better or for worse.


As for the rest...

The definition of "unclassified" according to google includes "not arranged in or assigned to classes or categories".

I suspect this is just because - we haven't seen them before. These are new. We've only known about them for over a day. We don't really know what they are - hence, unclassified.

The map room from the news broadcast from the firing yesterday appears completely unmodified and no guardian technology is visually present (pause Proteus Wave Fires video @ 1:12).https://youtu.be/y0MFmREngXM?t=81

The exterior of the Thargoid Surface Site also lacks any visual indication of Guardian technology or human modification (pause Proteus Wave Fires video @ 1:21).

I think this is just a lack of attention to detail from Frontier - the same reason Salvation is making his speech from the deck of a fleet carrier named Nemesis three hours after the weapon fired. (video @ 00:44)

When the weapon fired there was no indication of a Thargoid attack on the weapon itself.

The Proteus Wave had large amounts of defense - capital ships from all three superpowers, plus plenty of smaller ships providing anti-xeno support from superpowers and independent pilots. As such I don't think the Thargoids allowed Salvation to play around with their site: Salvation just prevented them from stopping him.


As for the hive mind stuff - after typing this I do realise one could link the Thargoids being connected, to Thargoid sites also being connected, to the sites being charged - but it does feel a bit like reaching to me... Although writing this I feel like a crazed conspiracy theorist, especially with all this talk about energies, so now I understand where you're coming from, lol