Warthog Throttle with VKB stick... ARGH!

[ubermick]

So in fairness, I misspoke when I said they weren’t “seen”. What I meant was that, when plugging the X52 in and loading the game up, the game essentially said “ooh look, there‘s an X52 attached. It’s now available as an option in the dropdown menu under controls.”

Whereas when connecting any of the other devices I’ve tried - Warthog throttle, X56 throttle, and VKB stick - the only options presented are keyboard, keyboard and mouse, or blank profile. Which, looking at it, is deffo a spot of “Ahhh, why isn’t everything just plug and play?!?!”

So what I ended up doing is spending about an hour with the X52 installed and jotting down line by line what each axis, button, toggle and setting was, then started a new blank profile with the X56/VKB and recreating everything. It’s about 90% where I need it to be, coupled with relearning muscle memory (which might be the most frustrating part, reaching for a button out of habit and it not being there.)

Sort of gave up on the Warthog since ED doesn’t seem to like “traditional” switches as opposed to the spring loaded toggle ones unless the TARGET software is also running. I'd also (incorrectly) assumed that TARGET was similar to VKB or even Saitek's software, where bindings were actually written to the unit and stored. Instead it's basically an emulator that interprets the Thrustmaster product you're using, and acting as a go between between the throttle and ED. (So again, needs to be running every time for it to work)

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

On the subject of build quality from Logitech, I got one of their X52 Pro builds over a year ago.
The only issue I have had since virtually the beginning was the self-centering being a little off, which I've had to handle with deadzones.

No other build complaints, but a center-detente on the throttle would have been a superb addition. I modded the 75/25 detentes out and that made life a little easier, but it's still a bit of a pain to keep track of forward/reverse velocity in the heat of the moment.

 

[Lyvan Kitaen]

Alright, so been using ye olde Saitek X52 Pro since the game's launch, and given their reputation I'm amazed it's lasted as long as it has. But started getting a bit of an upgrade bug - getting a bit tired of accidentally launching heatsinks when trying to chat and the chat decides to unselect itself, trying to remember what keyboard keys were mapped to what... (ah, the joys of old age)

Originally planned on the X56, but have seen quite a few mentions about the stick being made out of cheese and wishful thinking and looked at other options. The Warthog looked rather nice, but didn't like the lack of twist on the stick (yes, I could get pedals, but don't really have room for them nor do I want to have to "relearn" what little amount of flying skills I have). So finally ended up with a compromise - the Warthog throttle, and a VKB Gladiator stick.

While the stick worked without issue, the throttle is giving me fits. I was under the impression that ED had a Warthog profile by default, but when the throttle is plugged in along with the VKB stick, the only options available to me are "Keyboard only" and "Keyboard and mouse." Trying to set them up has been... er, problematic.

I did try the VKB stick and the X52 throttle - and amazingly, ED recognized that an X52 was attached, but also assumed I was using the X52 stick (given the stick connects to the throttle rather than being its own device, understandable) but was fairly straightforward to go and deal with changing that. (although the clutch button on the X52 no longer works, which I used as boost, but...)

Anybody got any tips, tricks, or pointers on getting the Warthog throttle to work tho? Be nice to have not paid $200 for a rather hefty paperweight...

Does Elite not see your throttle at all, or does it just not load a default profile? IOW, can you select a keybind, click a button or move and axis on the throttle, and have it not show something being assigned?

My Virpil stick and throttle don't have a default setup that comes up either. I just made a custom set of keybinds.

 

[dognosh]

Not sure why you took those supposed reviews about the x56 stick being 'made out of cheese' whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean, the x55/x56 sticks are excellent, maybe those reviewers should use those sticks how they are made to be used, I don't get the 'made out of cheese' what the hell can that even mean...

In less than 3 years I've made 3 repairs to my X55. (and I am a light user, the design and materials are terrible)
That CMDR is not the only one suggesting they are made of cheese !

 

[ubermick]

Does Elite not see your throttle at all, or does it just not load a default profile? IOW, can you select a keybind, click a button or move and axis on the throttle, and have it not show something being assigned?

My Virpil stick and throttle don't have a default setup that comes up either. I just made a custom set of keybinds.

Yeah. I was thrown off by the fact that it wasn't showing a default profile (given that its widely used, and I've seen people say that it has a default profile), and when I did try setting it up manually, it (Windows, more likely than ED) had issues with toggle switches as inputs.

As mentioned, I've basically decided to go with an X56 throttle instead, but having issues with that as well. Every USB port I've tried (and I tried 'em all!) has awful ghosting with controls. Random presses at any given time in-game. My USB hub isn't powered, but I've tried it with front and rear USB ports on my PC, and same result. I have a powered USB hub arriving tomorrow and will try that, but suspect it'll be going back...

 

[Hooplah]

Short version. The Logitech X-56 Grey HOTAS beats every other HOTAS design when it comes to programming every complex binding in the ED game. Programming bindings there is no better throttle in the game designed for ED versus trying to pull it off with a Warthog or Russian version to date. It is a perfect match designed to play ED. Maybe other HOTAS designers are working on it.

Some players reading too much on the Internet want the reliability of a Warthog or VKB designs joystick being more reliable. They can certainly replace the X-56 Grey joystick to meet their concerns. But then also lose the secondary thumb fire button on the X-56 which is also an analog thumb stick I use for thrusters. No other joystick has this.

Yes, X-55 and X-56 in the past have had a lot of problems and scarred a lot of players concerned about them. I bought all of them including the X-55, X-56 blue and finally the X-56 Gray when it came out. The previous had issues. The Grey does not with my play so far with thousands of hours.

You decide...

 

[Hempstead]

Short version. The Logitech X-56 Grey HOTAS beats every other HOTAS design when it comes to programming every complex binding in the ED game. Programming bindings there is no better throttle in the game designed for ED versus trying to pull it off with a Warthog or Russian version to date. It is a perfect match designed to play ED. Maybe other HOTAS designers are working on it.

Some players reading too much on the Internet want the reliability of a Warthog or VKB designs joystick being more reliable. They can certainly replace the X-56 Grey joystick to meet their concerns. But then also lose the secondary thumb fire button on the X-56 which is also an analog thumb stick I use for thrusters. No other joystick has this.

Yes, X-55 and X-56 in the past have had a lot of problems and scarred a lot of players concerned about them. I bought all of them including the X-55, X-56 blue and finally the X-56 Gray when it came out. The previous had issues. The Grey does not with my play so far with thousands of hours.

You decide...

Enlighten us with some reasons why you think X56 grey is the greatest joystick for ED, instead of just a wall of proclamation.

 

[Hooplah]

Enlighten us with some reasons why you think X56 grey is the greatest joystick for ED, instead of just a wall of proclamation.

With the X-56 Grey I thought that I did that with the analog thumb stick on the secondary fire button no other joystick on the market has. Very useful. Add in yaw control using pedals with a Warthog (no yaw with the joystick coming up with other limited solutions) playing the game for many hours in one position the yaw on the joystick has advantages. So what is your point?

Note with my X-56 G HOTAS setup I also have the mouse for perfect firing fixed weapons. HOTAS doesn't compare as many of the best players use a mouse and keyboard. Best of both worlds. Try it out using fixed weapons always getting on target then see how the HOTAS is lacking.

Regards

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The x56 is epic. I've been using a logitech one for over 2 years now almost daily and had no problems with reliability.

There are problems with the design when you get into the details, but being poorly built is not one of them.

 

[Tarkus Venius]

The "one spring" design of the X56 with the 1 to 2mm of "slop" around the center was a deal breaker for me. Go and jiggle the stick a little bit, feel it move? Yeah that's the problem with it, now try to aim rail guns and fixed pulse lasers with that.

I wanted a stick that was tighter and more precise, with a twist axis, so I went VKB gunfighter. I still have an X56 stick as a backup, though I'll probably sell the thing eventually, I don't think there's any going back.

 

[Hooplah]

The program designers of the X-55/56 HOTAS totally nailed the bindings not only with ED but with every other flight simulation as with X-Plane 11 and the latest Microsoft Flight 2020 Simulator not needing profile software but directly binding to the app. That is amazing as they looked at bindings and developed the connections supporting them. The problem was earlier versions had manufacture issues while the programming design was perfect for any game. The Grey version for me anyway seems to have worked the issues out. Trying to do this on a Warthog throttle designed for flying a specific aircraft is a joke compared to the X-56 throttle. Your results may vary...

 

[Hooplah]

The "one spring" design of the X56 with the 1 to 2mm of "slop" around the center was a deal breaker for me. Go and jiggle the stick a little bit, feel it move? Yeah that's the problem with it, now try to aim rail guns and fixed pulse lasers with that.

I wanted a stick that was tighter and more precise, with a twist axis, so I went VKB gunfighter. I still have an X56 stick as a backup, though I'll probably sell the thing eventually, I don't think there's any going back.

I agree the X-56 joystick is not as accurate as a VKB. It often requires a Windows calibration so that ED likes it. It seems to drift when playing ED. Not sure if it is the joystick or the game or the PC. Do you ever have to calibrate a VKB playing ED?

 

[Lyvan Kitaen]

With the X-56 Grey I thought that I did that with the analog thumb stick on the secondary fire button no other joystick on the market has. Very useful. Add in yaw control using pedals with a Warthog (no yaw with the joystick coming up with other limited solutions) playing the game for many hours in one position the yaw on the joystick has advantages. So what is your point?

Note with my X-56 G HOTAS setup I also have the mouse for perfect firing fixed weapons. HOTAS doesn't compare as many of the best players use a mouse and keyboard. Best of both worlds. Try it out using fixed weapons always getting on target then see how the HOTAS is lacking.

Regards

Why is the side analog stick on the X56 better than the analog stick on the Constellation Alpha, or even the VKB Kosmosima? To me, it looks very cheaply made in comparison.

 

[Hooplah]

Why is the side analog stick on the X56 better than the analog stick on the Constellation Alpha, or even the VKB Kosmosima? To me, it looks very cheaply made in comparison.

Well fly it and see for yourself. Cheaply made is an opinion not ever trying it out. From my viewpoint this cheaply made joystick has worked very well for the last several years. Being nuts I have a Warthog and several other HOTAS testing them with ED. I have many. Want to buy one?

 

[Lyvan Kitaen]

Well fly it and see for yourself. Cheaply made is an opinion not ever trying it out. From my viewpoint this cheaply made joystick has worked very well for the last several years. Being nuts I have a Warthog and several other HOTAS testing them with ED. I have many. Want to buy one?

Actually, I probably would have bought one a year or so ago if they sold the throttle and stick separately. During the research I did about it I found several negative reviews about its ergonomics and construction quality which dissuaded me from taking the plunge. I ended up buying a Gladiator Mk. II after my T16000 died while I waited for my Virpil Alpha.

I've had quite a few joysticks myself so I have a pretty good idea of what I want. Saitek Cyborg EVO (which has the same gimbal as the X-56), T16000M (piece of junk), VKB Gladiator MK. II (very well built but with limited buttons on the stick), Virpil Constellation Alpha (the best joystick I've ever used), and VKB Gladiator-K (which is also very nice)

BTW, Have you tried out an Alpha? The gimbal is miles ahead of what Saitek/Logitech uses and the construction quality is top notch. Of course, they also cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Hooplah]

...BTW, Have you tried out an Alpha? The gimbal is miles ahead of what Saitek/Logitech uses and the construction quality is top notch. Of course, they also cost an arm and a leg.

I have never used an Alpha so will take your word for it. Does it really make a serious difference playing ED? I don't see the programming to make a difference.

Flying aircraft in X-Plane 10/11 and being nuts I tried out three helicopter controllers one costing $1200.00 even writing a review for a manufacturer. I could definitely see the difference but not so much with ED making a difference. ED is a game. X-Plane is a lot more serious. If you fly in X-Plane then great controllers are worth it. Playing ED the cheapest HOTAS works the same as the most expensive one. It is just a game that will never use the qualities of high end controllers like a serious flight simulator. But they are nice to have when to go fly an aircraft. Maybe go with voice Comms per an airport meeting which is so much more complex than meet in greet in ED. You decide...

Regards

 

[Tarkus Venius]

I agree the X-56 joystick is not as accurate as a VKB. It often requires a Windows calibration so that ED likes it. It seems to drift when playing ED. Not sure if it is the joystick or the game or the PC. Do you ever have to calibrate a VKB playing ED?

I had to calibrate the stick once as part of the required setup, and again after I took it apart, lubricated the twist axis with nyogel, and changed out both the springs and cams. Not surprisingly it behaved different, and required a quick recalibrate with the VKB config software (which flashes the stick's control box).

Once done, I haven't had to since. I'm a mechanical dummy and I somehow managed not to wreck the whole thing, so anyone can do it.

 

[Tarkus Venius]

Why is the side analog stick on the X56 better than the analog stick on the Constellation Alpha, or even the VKB Kosmosima? To me, it looks very cheaply made in comparison.

I have my VKB analog stick in "hat" mode, and I just map handy things I need to it.

Why? The best analog mini stick for thrusters is already on the TCWS thrustmaster throttle. The stick is right on the index finger and it works perfectly. The TCWS throttle has loads of other hat switches, and it holds up well enough.

The throttle looks and feels cheap, but it works and holds up.

 

[Lyvan Kitaen]

I have my VKB analog stick in "hat" mode, and I just map handy things I need to it.

Why? The best analog mini stick for thrusters is already on the TCWS thrustmaster throttle. The stick is right on the index finger and it works perfectly. The TCWS throttle has loads of other hat switches, and it holds up well enough.

The throttle looks and feels cheap, but it works and holds up.

Since I have a right and left stick, I don't need the analog stick on the Alpha for thrusters anymore. I just use it to slew the view around. My Gladiator-K is the standard version which didn't come with an analog stick, just a hat.

My Virpil throttle is an older version that doesn't have an analog stick and I don't really miss it. I use the hat in that location to navigate menus.

 

[Lyvan Kitaen]

I have never used an Alpha so will take your word for it. Does it really make a serious difference playing ED? I don't see the programming to make a difference.

Flying aircraft in X-Plane 10/11 and being nuts I tried out three helicopter controllers one costing $1200.00 even writing a review for a manufacturer. I could definitely see the difference but not so much with ED making a difference. ED is a game. X-Plane is a lot more serious. If you fly in X-Plane then great controllers are worth it. Playing ED the cheapest HOTAS works the same as the most expensive one. It is just a game that will never use the qualities of high end controllers like a serious flight simulator. But they are nice to have when to go fly an aircraft. Maybe go with voice Comms per an airport meeting which is so much more complex than meet in greet in ED. You decide...

Regards

The Alpha is hands down the best joystick I've ever used. It's built like a tank, so you don't have to be gentle with it or worry about something breaking and it has all the inputs you could want in very ergonomic locations. It's also very programmable through the use of Virpil's software. Although the software isn't very user friendly.

For me, getting the Virpil equipment let me move all my controls to the stick and throttle. That's something that you just can't do with a lower priced HOTAS. The only thing I use the keyboard for is to type in text and the only place I use the mouse is in the menus and maps.