Wartime Planetary Scan Mission Logic

[GG7]

If you accept the missions make sure they are spread over multiple systems and from at least 2 factions in the neighbourhood, that way you can do one mission in one system for one faction, switch to another system and faction while your bounty timer runs out its 8 minutes. By the time you complete the 2nd mission your first bounty has run out and you can On H-jump back to first system and begin the 3rd mission.

The reason bounties stack is because you invade an private beacon while you still have a current bounty (from the same faction) on you, wich makes sense.

Sounds like a lot of needless running around for no good reason to me.

As a rule, I don't bother trying to kludge my way through borked mission types. Once I identify that they are severely bugged, I file a bug report with evidence and then write them off/avoid them until such time as Frontier decides to do the right thing and fix them.

I suggest anyone who values their game time do the same.

There are always work arounds for these examples of mission types, but the big question is WHY BOTHER?

Pirate Lord Assassination missions are still working fine, as are the Antiquities Salvage missions which tend to pay as much or more than these borked surface scan missions (2-4 million).

I just focus on those for now or any other mission that isn't broken and that I enjoy doing. Considering I am sitting on over 5.5 Billion CR free to spend, it is not like I need the cash.

Looking very much forward to the new mission system where you can choose REP over credits. For most of us ED Vets, we have more credits than we could possibly spend in two lifetimes in-game.

But the bottom line here is simple.

Rather than making excuses for an obviously bugged mission type, why not file a bug report and add your voices to the rest of us who like to see broken game mechanics fixed? As opposed to ignoring the glaringly obvious and coming up with creative ways to continue to play them?

Or worse... Putting apologist blinders on and blaming the player for doing it wrong.

 

[UmbraRex]

As a rule, I don't bother trying to kludge my way through borked mission types. Once I identify that they are severely bugged, I write them off and avoid them until such time as Frontier decides to do the right thing and fix them.

I suggest anyone who values their game time do the same.

There are always work arounds for these examples of mission types, but the big question is WHY BOTHER?

Because they pay pretty well if you don't stack them high enough to collect restrictive bounties.

 

[Aashenfox]

The point is, many of these missions should NOT involve a Trespass Zone or Private Beacon in the first place, so ANY fine or Bounty is the result of the bug. Not something the player should be forced to deal with, regardless of severity. (I had several 6 day duration bounties from these missions by the way)

But the bug/glitch goes far beyond the bounty part...

9 times out of 10, after scanning the beacon, receiving all the data, and even seeing the MISSION UPDATE flash across the screen on the INFO panel on the top right of the cockpit, the mission itself fails to update!

If you check your Navigation panel you will see that the GLOBE Icon next to the base you are currently landed at has not been removed like it normally is removed when a mission is completed and the mission is updated by the game. Checking the Transaction panel will also show the mission still in its previous uncompleted state.

So much so that you can leave the planet, come back and have it spawn a new base location and rinse and repeat the entire mission for a second time.

THAT was the primary reason for my warning and advice to avoid these like the plague until they are fixed.

I wasted so much time trying to complete these recently it wasn't funny. And all the Bounties I ended up getting wasn't appreciated either! Some of mine were 6 day duration by the way. Not just 24 hours.

And all these were the versions that should have never involved a PRIVATE Beacon in the first place! Civilian/Non-War versions have ALWAYS involved PUBLIC Beacons with NO Trespass zone from day one. I was there.

As such I ignore any erroneous claims to the contrary by new comers who were not around back then and have no idea how these missions are supposed to work when they are not severely bugged.

I know, I acknowledged it in my post. Even gave you credit. I was lucky in the video I got mission completion on first scan. It's a silly bug, but honestly, it doesn't bother me that much, so I have to log and scan again and get a bigger bounty, never mind, I can always go somewhere else in the galaxy for a week if I really need to, and I also like the attention from being wanted at least somewhere in the galaxy (random interdictions). I, like you realised a while ago that I was being given a problem in the jurisdiction I was in (often the mission giver, yes), rather than with the faction whose asset I was scanning, BUT, in a way, this is logical, and also I realised it's always been a thing. So probably you should only expect the 'not-working-first-scan', and 'private-when-it-should-be-public' bugs to be fixed and not the totally arbitrary and occasionally illogical assignment of bounties.

 

[Lightspeed]

Because they pay pretty well if you don't stack them high enough to collect restrictive bounties.

Exactly. If you are grinding your way through ranks, they provide double or triple rep mostly and pay very well at the same time. The only thing against them is that, being so easy, they become tedious if you do a lot.

 

[Morbad]

Shouldn't the the base belong to the Anarchist faction?

Not necessarily.

There are plenty of real-world analogs were a third party may know more, or have more centralized, data about the second party.

Shouldn't the the base belong to the Anarchist faction? And, since that faction is at war with the mission giver, it should not pin us with a bounty (just like in Conflict Zones). Right?

Again, not necessarily.

Even if that information was held by one of the warring parties, it could easily be against accepted rules of engagement for you to target the location it's held in, or to covertly obtain it's records.

If the information is held by a third party, there is no way the warring party that sent you after it

Why is the sensitive transmission data from the Anarchist faction emanating from a third faction's base? Were they hacked, are they secret allies of the Anarchists? What is the logic in a mission like this?

Factions are likely to keep tabs on others and may have more lax security, or superior intelligence gathering, than the other belligerent party. Factions must also deal with third parties for all sorts of political, economic, and social reasons.

An example of this could be the factions that have recently been vying for control of modern Syria. US and Russian intelligence aren't sharing all their information with each other, and both likely know things the other doesn't, despite both being hostile to the IS. Hacking or spying on the US is unlikely to start a war, and could well provide relevant information on the conflict, perhaps information that could not be obtained by any other source.

Even completely neutral parties are often privy to information the belligerents wouldn't be and stealing information from a tax shelter, or trade partner, may be far more effective than trying to extract information directly from the entity you are at war with.

Going after third party sources for info is so common in real history, as well as in fictional drama, that I'm surprised this sort of thing even strikes one as odd.

 

[Schlack]

If you persist in attempting to get one of these bugged mission to complete, you will incur more and more fines with every subsequent scan of the PRIVATE Beacon. (Respawned a half dozen times using the same bugged mission each time) which equals higher and higher bounty durations. I went through the trouble of accumulating these in order to submit them to Frontier Support to help prove my point at how screwed up these are.

Doing it wrong? Yeah right Mr. Clueless. [rolleyes]

I can see that one of my Ignore List choices continues to be more than viable.

You seem to have misunderstood my point. Which was postponing completion was not an option. I know they are bugged. Which us why i dont do them.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Cheers to you mate i think the same way and thats why i abandoned Scan missions long time ago

Thanks. I'm thinking about doing the same. It just makes the game feel awkward to me.

These are currently BUGGED.

I would suggest avoiding them until such time that FDev chooses to fix them.

(Brought to you by a player who has been doing these missions since the day they were first introduced. I know how they are supposed to work, and the current versions are far from exhibiting normal behavior)

OK. Nice to know that is the case and can/will be fixed. Meanwhile, as I have written above, I will just do something else.

But at 1 to 3 million a mission, avoiding them is kind of like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

So long as you don't carry out the mission at your 'home' base system, there's no problem with being wanted elsewhere. The bounty soon clears, depending on how many you've stacked and completed at a time. Even then, you can get home pretty easily, wanted or not.

Well, my main problem with it is not having a bounty per se, it's the evident lack of logic, that is presented to us, that makes it totally unrealistic. And the money isn't really a problem anyhow.

I had a similar experience but it seemed even more broken.

The missions was for a certain faction and was described along the lines of "we've lost contact with one of our bases. Scan it and return the data to us so we can determined what happened." I get to the base, it is owned by the faction that sponsored the mission, and proceed to scan the datapoint. BANG - I've got a bounty for trespassing! The bounty is by the same faction that sponsored the mission.

You are right. That situation looks even more out of whack.

Not a big deal to pay off though since the mission was 1 million credits and the bounty was only 3k.

It would be interesting if there was some narrative to this. I've been framed. Maybe some follow up missions to clear my name, maybe figure out who did it an why... but no, it is just a bug.

Interesting idea. That would be great if it was used to make more varied missions to the ones we know, in combination with a proper narrative. But I guess FDev won't be focusing on complexifying something that causes bugs like this.

Bounty you get is peanuts and clears in 10 minutes anyway, so like Lightspeed said, considering these missions are usually 1-3m credit rewards it's not a huge deal. On the "Shouldn't it be against the other factionin the war?" note... it's not really unreasonable to think a third party would have useful intelligence about two factions in a conflict.

Well, it's not really the bounty that bothers me, it was the lack of logic. But, being a bug, I'm not too worried.

And yes, there could be a narrative that a third party could have useful intelligence about the other two factions, but they wouldn't be broadcasting it like the mission givers tell us, when we get updates on the mission.

Just noting though:


Contrary to the flavour text and the fact they say (++INF) or similar, missions of any type don't increase a faction's influence in a war state. The only things that do are
- Combat Bonds
- Bounties (maybe; a lot of people say this but I've never personally verified)
- Indirect changes (i.e if you destroy a third-party faction's ship, they will lose influence, causing all other factions in the system (including ones at war) to gain a portion of that lost influence.

It's worth noting that missions not contributing to influence in a war state is by design and not a bug, though it's been the center of debate in the past.

Good to know. Thank you.

Missions do not affect inflence during wartime.

Good to know. Thank you too.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

No, they don't. The reason I know this is because I did several of these very recently for my Sirius permit and made the mistake of scanning a Red Squadron outpost and ended up having to drop missions because the fine was would have out lasted the mission turn in time which was in 12 hours, I believe the bounty was for 24 hours. I made the error of getting scanned on approach to a planetary base... Made it out with a half a shield...

That 24h fine happened to me too in one set of missions. But I must advise you not to land at Planetary Bases if you have a Bounty on your head. Always go for Starports or Outposts. Much easier to slip in unnoticed...

Or was the Planetary Base, not only the mission giver one, but also the only in the system?

Spying on another country while involved in hot war with another one? What's not there to get?

It seems to me you did not understand the lack of logic involved. The mission givers from the Democratic faction informed me that the opposing faction in the war (the Anarchist faction), was transmitting from a base in the planet. That message is given to you by them, before scanning the system. But it wasn't an Anarchist faction base. It was some other faction entirely (a third one) doing the transmissions. It makes no sense.

Also democratic factions engaging in wet works and espionage feels quite alive and actually gives a bit insight into ED lore.

It really seems to me you didn't read what I posted. I mentioned no problem in factions using wet works, etc...

My problem was with the lack of logic involved in this particular event. Now that I know it is clearly a bug, and that the base should be an Anarchist one when the bug gets corrected, I will have no problem then. The lack of logic will disappear.

Just assume one of the warring factions has hacked the 3rd factions data transmitter to use for it's own subterfuge and the other warring faction has found out about it and asked you to investigate. If it had been the 1st warring faction's own transmitter the other warring faction would send a ship over and blow it up. But because it isn't they can't do that as it would then add the 3rd faction to the war, so they ask a 3rd party (you) to hack the transmitter without fear of another war.

Confused, you will be on the next episode of Soap.

Not really. That was quite well explained and makes a lot of sense.

However, I don't want to have to spend my time, in the game, inventing convoluted explanations, just so it feels believable. That is FDev's job, not mine.

As others have stated, the trespass fine is 200cr and lasts 8 minutes. At least that aspect isn't bugged. If you then log and perform another scan at the same outpost, then yes, the bounty goes up and so does the duration. The third scan you perform gives you a 24hr bounty.

I did a vid of this for someone yesterday, this base should have been public, but it was subject to the bug of private, thta GG7 referred to...it still wasn't any trouble in a very light ship, and I had a 400cr fine that lasted 8 minutes, just like always.

https://youtu.be/KxjWDdODjC0

Im my case, I had several missions to the same planetary base. So, I got a bounty with 24h duration.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

But the bug/glitch goes far beyond the bounty part...

9 times out of 10, after scanning the beacon, receiving all the data, and even seeing the MISSION UPDATE flash across the screen on the INFO panel on the top right of the cockpit, the mission itself fails to update!

If you check your Navigation panel you will see that the GLOBE Icon next to the base you are currently landed at has not been removed like it normally is removed when a mission is completed and the mission is updated by the game. Checking the Transaction panel will also show the mission still in its previous uncompleted state.

So much so that you can leave the planet, come back and have it spawn a new base location and rinse and repeat the entire mission for a second time.

THAT was the primary reason for my warning and advice to avoid these like the plague until they are fixed.

Yes. It happened to me too. Couldn't complete mission, had to return and rescan >>> increased bounty + bounty duration.

Regarding the actual bug of the mission not completing, that does indeed exist, although as I said in another post it is (for me at least) a very rare occurrence. I haven't been able to figure out what triggers it, but I'd say it happens to me one time in perhaps 30+ scan missions, perhaps I'm just lucky. Since I still get the bounty, I just leave the system, wait 8 minutes (or do something else), then go back when the bounty has expired and complete the mission, that way it's just another 8 minute bounty.

Well, for me it was 1 in 3 missions failing to complete.

So probably you should only expect the 'not-working-first-scan', and 'private-when-it-should-be-public' bugs to be fixed and not the totally arbitrary and occasionally illogical assignment of bounties.

I hope that an effort to make the missions having a proper underlying logic, relating to the player and the BGS, would be a priority too.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Not necessarily.

There are plenty of real-world analogs were a third party may know more, or have more centralized, data about the second party.

That would be logical except that the mission givers inform us that the opposing faction is transmitting from a planetary base somewhere in the system. Note: Anarchist faction base transmitting, not third faction (uninvolved) secretly guarding precious data about the other two factions.

Again, not necessarily.

Even if that information was held by one of the warring parties, it could easily be against accepted rules of engagement for you to target the location it's held in, or to covertly obtain it's records.

What rules of engagement are defined in ED? Where is the "ED Warfare Rulebook"?

Factions are likely to keep tabs on others and may have more lax security, or superior intelligence gathering, than the other belligerent party. Factions must also deal with third parties for all sorts of political, economic, and social reasons.

An example of this could be the factions that have recently been vying for control of modern Syria. US and Russian intelligence aren't sharing all their information with each other, and both likely know things the other doesn't, despite both being hostile to the IS. Hacking or spying on the US is unlikely to start a war, and could well provide relevant information on the conflict, perhaps information that could not be obtained by any other source.

Even completely neutral parties are often privy to information the belligerents wouldn't be and stealing information from a tax shelter, or trade partner, may be far more effective than trying to extract information directly from the entity you are at war with.

Going after third party sources for info is so common in real history, as well as in fictional drama, that I'm surprised this sort of thing even strikes one as odd.

All that is fine and true, but it has no relevance in the situation I have written about because of the: Anarchist faction base transmitting message.