We knew this day would come

The thargoids have attacked professor pailin's outpost and you cannot access any of the services when docked there. Now we know the thargoids could possibly begin to attack planetary bases. They understand to some degree our social structure as they chose this outpost to be their first planetary assault presumably because of professor pailin's research and engineering services. We should begin talks about organizing a counter offensive.

I have to be honest. At this point I’d rather go to the far ends of the galaxy than mess around with Thargoids.

I mean honestly the devs added something in a game that offers no match-making for enemies many can’t solo.

What really blows my mind is that of all the ships added lately and of all the research and guardian items...there’s not one single guardian ship or Thargoids reversed tech ship that we can own.

Sorry to be sour but this is why I had to take a very long break away from the game.
 
I actually swore by clean drives on my Scout for the longest time. I was convinced that they were much better than dirties for my specific case.

But I wanted more speed. I needed drives that used less than 40% power, so I wouldn’t get stranded against malfunction attacks.

I could either use a lesser grade of low emissions, or switch to the less power hungry dirties.

That was the whole reason for my testing. I thought that the heat generated by boosting would see a more drastic reduction, but most of it came from general cruising. Casually cruising in combat is simply something you don’t do— at least, you shouldn’t. The switch was worth the minor increase.

Perhaps things were different before 3.0, we’ll have to poke around the forum some.

You're problem is your trying to use clean drives for what I assume is a combat stealth build. (I cant remember if you specifically stated that or not.) Yes in a stealth combat build DD might be the better option if the PP can compensate for the increased heat output. That's a very specific purpose though and isnt what clean drives are meant for. They are meant for non combat builds. Cargo ships benefit the most imo. The type 6 litterly overheats from just charging the fsd. You cant say something is useless just because you dont like the activity its associated with.

I just ran a couple of tests myself. I took my asp explorer swapped out the PP for a C grade and put on a G5 DD and a G5 CD and flew circles around my local star inside it's hot zone and timed myself from the time the fuel scoop indicator poped up until my heat reached 100.
It took 53 seconds with the dirty drives to get to 100 with a resting supercruise temp of 35%.

The clean drive had a resting temp of 29% and it took 3 minutes and 5 seconds to reach 100 heat. So yes they are useful. Maybee not to you but they do have a purpose.
 
You're problem is your trying to use clean drives for what I assume is a combat stealth build. (I cant remember if you specifically stated that or not.) Yes in a stealth combat build DD might be the better option if the PP can compensate for the increased heat output. That's a very specific purpose though and isnt what clean drives are meant for. They are meant for non combat builds. Cargo ships benefit the most imo. The type 6 litterly overheats from just charging the fsd. You cant say something is useless just because you dont like the activity its associated with.

I just ran a couple of tests myself. I took my asp explorer swapped out the PP for a C grade and put on a G5 DD and a G5 CD and flew circles around my local star inside it's hot zone and timed myself from the time the fuel scoop indicator poped up until my heat reached 100.
It took 53 seconds with the dirty drives to get to 100 with a resting supercruise temp of 35%.

The clean drive had a resting temp of 29% and it took 3 minutes and 5 seconds to reach 100 heat. So yes they are useful. Maybee not to you but they do have a purpose.

I think you mentioned a silent running build and cleans earlier, so I gave you my input on that, and why dirties ended up being better overall in that regard. And most other situations. The most popular exploration ships should totally get away with using dirty drives.

I acknowledged that some odd builds can benefit from clean drives, but G3 is plenty fine for a majority of ships. One of the ships I took to beagle was equipped with mid grade cleans if I remember right. The second trip was in a combat Conda with dirty drives that was quite a bit warmer, but I had an undersized plant, overcharged to high heaven, so I wasn’t surprised. Had a lot of plasma, boosters, banks, etc. It was still manageable.

I didn’t think thruster mods affected ship heat while in supercruise, since drives aren’t what propels you in SC unless something has changed, or I’m completely mistaken. That’s not counting the slight increase in idle heat that comes with using drives that are more power hungry. More draw on the plant=higher base heat %. I might test this myself later anyways just to see.

Anyways, the purpose of dirty drives on a T6 is just for survival/meme purposes. They’ll hit 580 if you build them right. Even some PvP ships will have difficulty running you down. Cleans would be slower, suffer the same integrity penalty as dirty drives, but offer you no major benefit in a dangerous situation. In some of the slower ships, I might even recommend reinforced drives over either clean/dirty.

Dont want to derail the thread but would you be willing to expand on the mechanics of this strategy a little?

Okay, so this has everything to do with powerplant malfunctions. A scramble spectrum laser, pulse disruptor, or a damage-induced plant malfunction causes your powerplant to operate at reduced output, which is 40% of its total power.

If your drives use over 40% of your plants total power, even if you set them to priority one, and everything else to priority two, you will be a sitting duck until your plant stops malfunctioning.

Now if your drives use, say, 38% of your plant’s total power, and they are the only module set to priority one, you will still be able to move at the very least if your plant malfunctions in combat.

Keep your priority one modules below a total of 40% power usage, basically.

In the case of my build, without that Monstered experimental on the plant, my drives used 41%, meaning a plant malfunction was going to stop me dead. By switching to Monstered, it raised my plant’s power output just enough that my drives used like 39.x% power.

I lose everything but my drives in a malfunction situation, but it sure beats sitting still and getting hammered while I wait for the malfunction to correct itself.
 
@Cknarf They only affect heat management in SC. It doesnt affect speed or maneuverability. The small performance increase in normal space is a bonus but mostly it's just for the heat reduction people use it for.
 
Science!

Honestly, this is one of the most exciting things I do in the game anymore.

I’m getting some info from Achenar 3 right now in the T6. Just tested the clean drives, I’ll share what else I gather once the dirty drives are tested.

Being a 6.7g body, if clean drives are really gonna shine, it’s probably gonna be at an extreme location like this.
 
I think you mentioned a silent running build and cleans earlier, so I gave you my input on that, and why dirties ended up being better overall in that regard. And most other situations. The most popular exploration ships should totally get away with using dirty drives.

I acknowledged that some odd builds can benefit from clean drives, but G3 is plenty fine for a majority of ships. One of the ships I took to beagle was equipped with mid grade cleans if I remember right. The second trip was in a combat Conda with dirty drives that was quite a bit warmer, but I had an undersized plant, overcharged to high heaven, so I wasn’t surprised. Had a lot of plasma, boosters, banks, etc. It was still manageable.

I didn’t think thruster mods affected ship heat while in supercruise, since drives aren’t what propels you in SC unless something has changed, or I’m completely mistaken. That’s not counting the slight increase in idle heat that comes with using drives that are more power hungry. More draw on the plant=higher base heat %. I might test this myself later anyways just to see.

Anyways, the purpose of dirty drives on a T6 is just for survival/meme purposes. They’ll hit 580 if you build them right. Even some PvP ships will have difficulty running you down. Cleans would be slower, suffer the same integrity penalty as dirty drives, but offer you no major benefit in a dangerous situation. In some of the slower ships, I might even recommend reinforced drives over either clean/dirty.



Okay, so this has everything to do with powerplant malfunctions. A scramble spectrum laser, pulse disruptor, or a damage-induced plant malfunction causes your powerplant to operate at reduced output, which is 40% of its total power.

If your drives use over 40% of your plants total power, even if you set them to priority one, and everything else to priority two, you will be a sitting duck until your plant stops malfunctioning.

Now if your drives use, say, 38% of your plant’s total power, and they are the only module set to priority one, you will still be able to move at the very least if your plant malfunctions in combat.

Keep your priority one modules below a total of 40% power usage, basically.

In the case of my build, without that Monstered experimental on the plant, my drives used 41%, meaning a plant malfunction was going to stop me dead. By switching to Monstered, it raised my plant’s power output just enough that my drives used like 39.x% power.

I lose everything but my drives in a malfunction situation, but it sure beats sitting still and getting hammered while I wait for the malfunction to correct itself.

Hey thank you very much for that explanation man i didn't know the 40% reduction was fixed.
Im fairly old school in my pvp persuits, mainly fixed weapon small/mediums and havn't spent nearly enough time on counters.
Time to tweak a few buillds , the number of cheese beam mambas and fdl's now is rediculous.
 
Alright, so. T6 and Achenar 3.

I’m going to start by saying this is a rather hot build, powered by a 2A guardian plant. Stat wise it’s a mix of a G4 and G5 overcharged 2A. 0.50 effeciency(G5 OC) with an output of 12.70(.10 less than G4 OC). It’s got a little more integrity, but weighs more. This plant is used simply out of laziness, and the refusal to gather materials. A standard, engineered 2A would be better for this ship’s intended purpose, transport/exploration.

Clean drive T6 (thermal spread, G5)
Jump: 58~
44% power usage
Cruise: 322
Boost: 513
Orbit heat: 34%
Glide heat: 51%
Boosting heat (flat): 58%
Aggressive maneuvering: 73%**
From surface, ascending via vertical thrusters only: 51%
Boosting upward, perpendicular to surface: 61%
From 61% to Supercruise(no boost while or prior to charging, Escape vector located before charge): 84%

———-
Dirty drive T6 (Drag drives, G5)
Jump: 58~
43% power usage
Cruise: 365
Boost: 580
Orbit heat: 34%
Glide heat: 58%
Boosting heat (flat): 61%
Aggressive maneuvering: 73%(!)**
From surface, ascending via vertical thrusters only: 53%
Boosting upward, perpendicular to surface: 68%^^
From 68% to Supercruise(no boost while or prior to charging, Escape vector located before charge): 89%*

**Abrupt turns, flips, constant boosting. I expected the dirty T6 to get significantly hotter than the clean T6, but I could not push it farther. Perhaps upside down would have made a difference.

*At an angle slightly beyond 90 deg. Beyond vertical, I was able to push the dirty T6 WELL over 120%, but was fine if traveling straight up, or at a lesser angle. Clean drive T6 was not tested in this manner.

As for fuel scooping, both loadouts were uncomfortable at maximum scoop rate to say the least. Again, HOT build to start with. I am using a 4c scoop, and a smaller than stock fuel tank. If the tank was larger, I have no doubt that they both would have reached 100+. I’ll have to test this more, with a standard tank and an exploration-worthy 5A fuel scoop.

Edit: Watching my initial arrival clip a second time, I noticed I was able to hit 75% in the dirty T6, but only once, before my distributor ran dry.

Another edit: I went back to Achenar 3 and really started thrashing the dirty T6 around. Unlikely maneuvers while out there exploring, boosting with vertical thrusters, lats, and rolling etc. It isn’t difficult to get warm. I noticed heat climbs significantly faster when rolled 90 degrees from level and boosting as well. This is all with FA on. I imagine the Clean T6 might fare a little better, but still heat up a noticeable amount based off of prior testing.
 
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Clean drives should be clean, full stop.

Let's say 20-25% max heat for a G5 mod under most stressful situation like i.e. whilst boosting in silent-running.
 
It took 53 seconds with the dirty drives to get to 100 with a resting supercruise temp of 35%.

53 secs. more than enough to refill even the most hungry tank with a decent fuel scoop.

anyway thanks for your insightful explanation. i now know why i don't even need to bother with clean drives. (y)
 
Man, if my iEagle can handle an undersized, overcharged plant, enhanced performance thrusters with dirty G5, a plasma accelerator, and two rail guns without cooking itself, then that Viper could probably handle(and benefit) greatly from dirty drives over clean.

But I suppose there isn’t much point in going down that path any further.

I will say that shock cannons/silent running are a weird combination.

Even if you are running cold, or have silent running engaged, firing weapons makes you visible to a human player(Once engaged, NPCs are not affected by silent running). Even if gimbals go screwy, fixed weapons retain their reticles, so you can still easily take a plasma to the face.

I believe as long as you are hitting someone, they can target you normally, silent running or not. Even if their sensors are out, if you’re hitting them, they can target you.

This makes any constant fire, or rapid fire weapons less than ideal for that sort of style.

Cannons, plasma, railguns, frags, missiles etc are better choices.
 
Hey, use whatever weapons you want, there’s nothing wrong with that. I fly oddball, non-meta ships from time to time myself.

Running cold and needless use of silent running are still very different things, especially considering one just makes you extra toasty and offers no benefit if coupled with the wrong gear.

As a console scrub, I can’t tease anyone for using a controller lol
 
... controller...

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