We need more surface port AX zones. Perhaps tissue samples can be toned down in pushing back the thargoids

[Mrc_NorthEast]

I was thrilled this week to see a surface port AX zone available for play. If has been awhile. However since the thargoid invasion has been made a part of the BGS in Elite Dangerous, those groups that focus on BGS activities min/maxed it to death. And they found that tissue samples alone can pretty much stop all invasions cold. This weeks new AX surface port will be done within 48 hours most likely, this is too fast. Most people who have a job and a family will not get much if any playtime in Elite Dangerous until the weekend, but it appears this AX surface port won't last that long.

I am suggesting that tissue samples count for no more than 25-33% of the amount required to repel an invasion. Another 25-33% should be AX combat, and 25-33% for Evacuation missions, and if 25% was used the fourth group would be commodities mission in war systems. If 33% were used commodities/evac missions could be in 'one bucket'.

I believe the above mix of activities will give the player base more options vs tissue sampling being the one and only meta to stop the thargoid war in its tracks. I personally am looking forward to more ax surface ports, if any can be found.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I personally am looking forward to more ax surface ports, if any can be found.

They may get more common in future as there are more close-in inhabited systems recovering.

On 14 September both Omumba and Njorog are likely go into Alert, which will almost certainly lead to some Alerts getting through to be Invasions on 21 September: if one of those two does it will be a high-difficulty invasion which will last most of the week ... if both of those are blocked, there won't be enough time left to stop several others getting through. Then on 21 September HR 2204 is likely to go into Alert for another high-difficulty one while the invasions resulting from the previous week are still being handled, likely leading to more invasions on 28 September. Assuming those systems aren't lost, then they should keep providing invasions relatively consistently.

Not much chance of any before then, though.

(Ironically, the "easiest" way to get more assuming no changes from Frontier would be to run a couple more sampling-based recaptures on inhabited systems about 15LY out from their respective Maelstroms - it wouldn't take very many more to get Invasions more consistently, though they'd take a month or so to mature after being recaptured)

 

[Kira Goto]

Invasions are not the thing being cleared by tissue sampling, by the way. HIP 25679 by the end of its run claims to have seen just over 28,000 Thargoid kills on Inara, plus some 6,000 rescues and a small amount of supplies(comparatively). If people get a primarily combat-focused scenario, they’ll go there to do combat.

What you’re looking at as the culprit is alerts being cleared easily through tissue sampling, though usually combined with other activities in populated systems. Plus the fact that repeated nerfs to Thargoid difficulty kind of make systems past 20 light years of distance a joke to clear, especially compared to how things were initially.

That aside, an easy fix for people to have more combat options available would be for starports in counterstrike systems to actually offer docking capabilities. Otherwise, their conflict zone presence is somewhat redundant and doesn’t really draw people to them. I guess one reason Frontier haven’t done that is to avoid making them too similar to invasions, but that’s speculating.

Otherwise, yeah, you’re looking at the systems within the 15 ly perimeter of the Titan/Maelstrom to either cause more invasions by taking significant focus to clear at alert stage, or themselves flipping over to invasions. Given the current outlook, it seems that the near future will have to rely on those opportunities, rather than waiting for Frontier to pull a few levers. Whatever their focus is, it currently doesn’t appear to be to switch up the stalemate(or I guess at this point, human pushback… until the Thargoids decide to throw some extra punches out).

(Yes, they really should rebalance control systems to make combat more viable. Part of me is still convinced sampling should really get hit with the nerf bat, considering just how stupidly easy it is to do, but as above, controls probably need to see a serious rebalance at the same time.)

 

[MVBanks]

Another possible solution would be to allow our FCs to enter counterstrike systems and to create AX CZs around them. FCs are undestructible, (like stations),
but Fdev should provide a mechanism for them to be damaged, and when the damage reaches, say, 60%, the FC must leave the system and go for repair, which costs 2 - 3 billions. Of course, the number of FC in the counterstrike system should be limited to 3-4, but I think there would be many owners who would be happy to spend such money on such an activity.
And it would be nice to see the Carriers finally use their weapons for some useful purpose.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Not much chance of any before then, though.

I may have been underestimating how much clearing the invasion would take away time from clearing this week's inhabited alerts here. Might be one or two get through.

 

[CMDR X]

Yes, MOAR pew-pew and less picking boogers off aliens.

 

[XenoZera]

To be quite honest, i feel like the solution is to stop complaining about the lack of invasions and instead learn how to deal with going on the offensive.

This suggestion boils down to "I want to lose the war, or have it be permanent stalemate, not win the war"
Yes, logistics is difficult in war, especially across lightyears. War shouldn't be "easy"

 

[MVBanks]

To be quite honest, i feel like the solution is to stop complaining about the lack of invasions and instead learn how to deal with going on the offensive.

This suggestion boils down to "I want to lose the war, or have it be permanent stalemate, not win the war"
Yes, logistics is difficult in war, especially across lightyears. War shouldn't be "easy"

I totally agree with you that war shouldn't be easy, but it should be fun. After all, we are in a computer game, and they are played for a certain amount of fun.
If war turns into a boring job, like tissue sampling, then there's not much to enjoy.

The vast majority of players involved in thargoid war like Invasions, especially planetary port AX CZs, because it's fun - no hyperspace jumps, searching, SC travel, no boring hyper/interdictions - once you're there you enjoy playing with other players. You leave the game, and when you come back you are immediately in action, without wasting time.
Fighting in thargoid controlled systems, in space AX CZs, is of course possible, but not nearly as much fun, because it involves wasting time due to logistics.
A few posts earlier, KiraGoto suggested a possible solution for starports in counterstrike systems to offer docking, and I suggested a solution with our FCs.

And as for winning or losing in the war - well, we all know anyway that we cannot lose or win until FDev enables us to do so. As long as there is no mechanism by which we can fight Titans or Matrix sites, we cannot win until then, no matter how hard we try. And the Thargoids can't win for years either, because they are slow.

So the suggestion is not to make the war easy, but to give the players more opportunities to have fun.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I totally agree with you that war shouldn't be easy, but it should be fun. After all, we are in a computer game, and they are played for a certain amount of fun.
If war turns into a boring job, like tissue sampling, then there's not much to enjoy.

The vast majority of players involved in thargoid war like Invasions, especially planetary port AX CZs, because it's fun - no hyperspace jumps, searching, SC travel, no boring hyper/interdictions - once you're there you enjoy playing with other players. You leave the game, and when you come back you are immediately in action, without wasting time.
Fighting in thargoid controlled systems, in space AX CZs, is of course possible, but not nearly as much fun, because it involves wasting time due to logistics.
A few posts earlier, KiraGoto suggested a possible solution for starports in counterstrike systems to offer docking, and I suggested a solution with our FCs.

And as for winning or losing in the war - well, we all know anyway that we cannot lose or win until FDev enables us to do so. As long as there is no mechanism by which we can fight Titans or Matrix sites, we cannot win until then, no matter how hard we try. And the Thargoids can't win for years either, because they are slow.

So the suggestion is not to make the war easy, but to give the players more opportunities to have fun.

Exactly. It is not about "losing the war intentionally". It is about a fun gameplay loop going awol because the BGS AX players play to beat the system. Which is fine and legit, but destroyed said fun gameplay loop for the others.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

And as for winning or losing in the war - well, we all know anyway that we cannot lose or win until FDev enables us to do so. As long as there is no mechanism by which we can fight Titans or Matrix sites, we cannot win until then, no matter how hard we try. And the Thargoids can't win for years either, because they are slow.

Indeed - the war is already a stalemate give or take a few light years, it's just a matter of exactly where the front lines end up.

That said, there were three invasions this week, next week will have two high-difficulty invasions which should at least last out the week between them and probably a few easier ones as well - and that's likely to take people away from Alert clearance and result in more invasions in the following weeks. The average difficulty level may be getting to the point where that ends up being a stable situation again.

(The important thing for invasion fans will be not to lose the overambitious Njorog and Omumba systems entirely - they won't create invasions if the Thargoids actually win there.)

 

[Kira Goto]

(The important thing for invasion fans will be not to lose the overambitious Njorog and Omumba systems entirely - they won't create invasions if the Thargoids actually win there.)

Rather unlikely, unless all the surface ports within are wiped in one week, meaning that only outposts remain(at least in Omumba, seeing as Njorog has a Coriolis too).

If it were to come to a recapture project like Montioch or HIP 30502 around Hadad with only outposts, I’d be concerned.

 

[MVBanks]

And we should not forget that some very popular CG could have a negative impact on the cleaning of Omumba and Njorog.

 

[XenoZera]

I totally agree with you that war shouldn't be easy, but it should be fun. After all, we are in a computer game, and they are played for a certain amount of fun.
If war turns into a boring job, like tissue sampling, then there's not much to enjoy.

The vast majority of players involved in thargoid war like Invasions, especially planetary port AX CZs, because it's fun - no hyperspace jumps, searching, SC travel, no boring hyper/interdictions - once you're there you enjoy playing with other players. You leave the game, and when you come back you are immediately in action, without wasting time.
Fighting in thargoid controlled systems, in space AX CZs, is of course possible, but not nearly as much fun, because it involves wasting time due to logistics.
A few posts earlier, KiraGoto suggested a possible solution for starports in counterstrike systems to offer docking, and I suggested a solution with our FCs.

And as for winning or losing in the war - well, we all know anyway that we cannot lose or win until FDev enables us to do so. As long as there is no mechanism by which we can fight Titans or Matrix sites, we cannot win until then, no matter how hard we try. And the Thargoids can't win for years either, because they are slow.

So the suggestion is not to make the war easy, but to give the players more opportunities to have fun.

Personally I do not see what is fun about a buggy instance where the interceptors can shoot at you from under the surface, people are padwarming preventing R/R/R, and being unable to boost without repeatedly toggling FA on/off to prevent your ship from locking up. Even starport CZ's tend to just completely bug-out for me, the only station CZ's that seem stable on a regular basis are outposts but those only have a single pad which is always being padwarmed and you cant kill the commander doing it so it's basically a counterstrike space CZ with some obstacles.

I do not understand the aversion to space CZ's. Get a friend or two and they're ezpz. They're more stable, with better framerates even when filled with CMDR's.

Fleet carriers will never be allowed to interact with the war like that, Fdev basically considers them non-canon. You cant even enter an alert system with your carrier and theres no direct conflicts like that happening in alerts.

We can lose well before Fdev says so, we cant win until fdev says so, so the "BGSers" people want to complain and whine about winning the war are actually complaining about winning the war. Why would we ever want to purposefully lose ground? Just so some shardconda's can gib cyclops and run away from basilisks?

There are plenty of avenues right now to have fun and engaging combat even without Invasions. We are also reaching a point where sampling is just causing a stalemate and we will have regular invasions again unless Fdev reduces the cost to retake systems (again)


tl;dr the game is still fun and we're reaching a stalemate, the complains are neither warranted nor helpful, their problems are solved by patience not whining

 

[MVBanks]

Personally I do not see what is fun about a buggy instance where the interceptors can shoot at you from under the surface, people are padwarming preventing R/R/R, and being unable to boost without repeatedly toggling FA on/off to prevent your ship from locking up. Even starport CZ's tend to just completely bug-out for me, the only station CZ's that seem stable on a regular basis are outposts but those only have a single pad which is always being padwarmed and you cant kill the commander doing it so it's basically a counterstrike space CZ with some obstacles.

I do not understand the aversion to space CZ's. Get a friend or two and they're ezpz. They're more stable, with better framerates even when filled with CMDR's.

Fleet carriers will never be allowed to interact with the war like that, Fdev basically considers them non-canon. You cant even enter an alert system with your carrier and theres no direct conflicts like that happening in alerts.

We can lose well before Fdev says so, we cant win until fdev says so, so the "BGSers" people want to complain and whine about winning the war are actually complaining about winning the war. Why would we ever want to purposefully lose ground? Just so some shardconda's can gib cyclops and run away from basilisks?

There are plenty of avenues right now to have fun and engaging combat even without Invasions. We are also reaching a point where sampling is just causing a stalemate and we will have regular invasions again unless Fdev reduces the cost to retake systems (again)


tl;dr the game is still fun and we're reaching a stalemate, the complains are neither warranted nor helpful, their problems are solved by patience not whining

It seems to me that there is a lot of exaggeration and some elitism in your text.

It's an exaggeration when you say that surface CZs are so buggy - they were really like that at the beginning of the war, but now they are at an acceptable level. And the elitism is that you don't "understand the aversion to space CZs" because they are "ezpz".
I believe this is true for you and your friends, but let's be aware that Thargoid war content is created for a wide range of players, including beginners as well as average ax pilots, who are probably the largest number in the war. After all, if you compare the numbers of players in Invasion systems (when there are any) with those in Counterstrike systems, you will immediately see that a large number of players do not share your opinion.

It's also an exaggeration when you say "some shardconda's can gib cyclops and run away from basilisks". I have not met such pilots, and if they do exist, they are only rare exceptions. On the contrary, I've seen many times that players look forward to seeing a Basilisk or Medusa appear in the opening phase of CZ (albeit rarely), as it presents a more interesting challenge than Cyclops.
The elitism is that you imply (perhaps unintentionally) that all average ax pilots are the ones who like to shoot Cyclops and run away when they see a Basilisk.

When you say that we can lose the war before Fdev says so - that is simply not true, because according to existing analyzes (Ian Doncaster) it would take at least ten years for the Thargoids to even threaten a system that is important to us, and that if we did nothing.

So, everything we write and propose in this thread is not whining, but just an invitation to make the thargoid war more interesting and attractive to everyone.

Just kidding - mentioning elitism in a game called Elite is kind of funny, because we're all Elitist, aren't we?

 

[XenoZera]

I was thrilled this week to see a surface port AX zone available for play. If has been awhile. However since the thargoid invasion has been made a part of the BGS in Elite Dangerous, those groups that focus on BGS activities min/maxed it to death. And they found that tissue samples alone can pretty much stop all invasions cold. This weeks new AX surface port will be done within 48 hours most likely, this is too fast. Most people who have a job and a family will not get much if any playtime in Elite Dangerous until the weekend, but it appears this AX surface port won't last that long.

I am suggesting that tissue samples count for no more than 25-33% of the amount required to repel an invasion. Another 25-33% should be AX combat, and 25-33% for Evacuation missions, and if 25% was used the fourth group would be commodities mission in war systems. If 33% were used commodities/evac missions could be in 'one bucket'.

I believe the above mix of activities will give the player base more options vs tissue sampling being the one and only meta to stop the thargoid war in its tracks. I personally am looking forward to more ax surface ports, if any can be found.

like i said, no need to make changes to anything. All you needed was some patience.
Multiple invasions with surface ports available into the weekend? Must be your lucky day cmdr