Upping Vulture is a bad idea - I already have a very hard time finding any big ship that would duel against my vulture.
Anyway, let's keep talking about Eagles
We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE
- Thread starter BEKTOP 3APEMOB
- Start date
Anyway, let's keep talking about Eagles
The fluff about it being "old" means nothing. Read the description on the FdL, the Cobra... most of the ships really. Nobody is asking for more striking power on the Eagle, only speed. Lightly armed, fragile ships needs to be fast. There is no reason for the sidey and the eagle to be slow, aside from some misguided level based thinking. There is no need for the eagle to be a slow, throw-away ship. Ideally, it's a ship somebody can focus on, and become an ace with. It won't have the striking power of the bigger ones, but it can harass, and dart in and out of the fight.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
The Vulture is the current "new cheese". We saw it when the Eagle was introduced, then with the Viper, and later with the Python. Quite a few ships have been introduced seriously OP, and then adjusted for sensible performance later. I suspect the Vulture will lose some of it's godly agility and durability.
And low cost, being a stepping stone, is no real niche. Especially not in a universe where money is so plentiful.
The very concept of a ''pecking order'' in combat is IMO a serious simplification that I think has the possibility to ruin this entire part of the game. Especially when it comes to certain ships just being straight-off better. That an Eagle can't destroy a Ferdelance, even with a competent Eagle pilot, that is understandable, but the Eagle should have a place in combat where it can play a useful role and outperform ships, even other combat ships, that are geared towards other niches. I think increasing the speed of the Eagle would help.
The Vulture has several times the firepower of the Eagle, and extremely powerful armor/shields, together with a for its size large engine to thrust the heavy ship forwards. I would counter your question with: Why should the Eagle be almost as slow as the Vulture?
And as you say, the 3 small hardpoints will render it pretty useless in many combat situations already. A speed increase would, at least, give it some purpose.
You'd be surprised how effective 3 class 1 beams are at dropping shields. The 2 C1 beams on my Viper were highly effective. Also the whole stepping stone thing really doesn't ruin the combat side of the game, things seem pretty decent as they stand to me.
"If we continue to run away from reality then I must add that current Eagle is better at attacking Coriolis stations than FdL too."
Surely you've seen the videos of Eagles taking out Capital ships? They're good against the Imperial ones because 2 C1 beams can take out the rails and heat sinks easily, whilst avoiding the rest of the remaining ordinance. Never blown up Feds ships but watching Eagle aces dip in and out of parts of the structure whilst doing strafing runs inches away from the Capital ship's hull is quite the sight to see. Vipers can also do it, albeit with less maneourability. Whilst Vultures can tank more damage they're also easier to hit. So horses for courses really. It wont really effect me whether they change the Eagle speed or not to be honest, but I really don't see the point.
Eh no I'd not be surprised, I carry 2 Medium Beams on my Cobra right now. For dealing with Eagles, Vipers, other Cobras, they're great at dropping shields, and decent at damaging the hull, too. For Pythons and Anacondas, you need a lot more sustained fire, but it can be done pretty quick, as long as you keep them in your sights and put pips in WEP.
For player ships? Even other Cobras are pretty hard to deal with, Vultures, Pythons? Impossible! Have you ever gone up against another player in a ''PvP'' build heavy ship? They can literally take your constant 4-pip WEP fire for 8 minutes or more without loosing shields. Small weapons are a lot weaker than mediums, and also suffer penalties against large ships. Maybe, I guess this is more a problem of the current system and how modules play against eachother than any of the other ships, but it is clear right now, that Eagles, even in numbers, have pretty much no chance against heavy ships, or any ship more survivable than a Cobra, really. The change proposed in the OP would at least give them the possibility to flee!
I searched youtube for a video of Eagles taking out a capital ship, and I retract my previous statement. Even Eagles are pretty much safe from direct hits by Capital ship main batteries. Completely useless, just get a more survivable ship and facehug the heat relays. You'll be more safe from any eventual players, too. If we made capital ships actually lethal, made the main batteries a lot more accurate but slower tracking, and made the Eagle a ship that actually was fast compared to other, heavier, fighter craft, then I think it could be useful as an anti-capital fighter.
Went up against a player Python back before 1.1 update who was definitely built for PVP. Whilst there were three of us I managed to take down most of the shield pretty easily one my own whilst the others ducked out of range with 2 C1 beams in my Viper. We would've dropped the shields except he had plenty of SCBs (pre nerf) and eventually I got greedy and blew up. Cracking fight though and post shield cell nerf definitely doable to drop the shields (unless shield boosters really have such a high effect.) I'll have to test it at some point with my mate's Vulture.
I love my eagle the way it is. It's basically a single person fighter. A little fragile, but even though they are small, 3 hardpoints can do damage.
I run with Chaff, 2 beams and a cannon (the large caliber). All modules except weapons are A-C quality, but even with that I have to switch which capacitors are being recharged and keep a careful eye on being able to burn away when I need to, as well as be able to launch chaff. It's really easy to put too much into weapons and essentially be a gun behind a cardboard shield.
With my eagle I can 1V1 almost any asp, viper, or anaconda (a bit of work). Low Intensity Conflicts are frankly too much for an Eagle, but I can still get 1-2 kills before having to leave. As for the others, RES, interdiction (them or me), it can be a little frustrating because the small hardpoints take forever to do any damage to the hull. The beams I use can strip the shields off just about anything. Many times they end up looping until they are far enough away to FSD because they realize I've been targeting their heat sinks or power plant and will die....so the ship can do some damage, just not fast enough in many cases.
The reason I like the Eagle is that ANY mistake against a larger ship and a semi-conscious player will almost certainly result in death. The shields can be burned off in about two seconds flat with an Anaconda beam and even armor buffs only help a little. The only things I don't go near are Dropships.
------------
Here's the thing. If you're flying straight at a ship with 4 forward hardpoints, turrets, and a tanky hull, you WILL die.
Use your chaff, loop around, and ALWAYS target a critical system such as power distributor, power plant, life support....You're not going to win a battle of brawn against a larger ship. You have to be smarter because they will assume they can one shot your shields and then two-shot your hull. And they would be right.
Never fly straight at the enemy. You are more manoeuvreable than almost anything out there.
By the way, one of the things I like killing the most with my Eagle is another Eagle. It's just so easy.
This week I've been averaging 300K per hour at RES, not spectacular but still respectable for such a small ship. Small traders can't do that much generally imho. I've only been killed once at a RES, which cost me around 50K to replace with insurance. So the ship is super cheap for the payoff.
After I examined voters list, I noticed an interesting thing. I had pvp battles and duels with a lot of people who voted "Yes", but I've never met anyone from "No" list in-game. I think there may be a pattern here: PvP players vs PvE players (and while speedy Eagle would make PvP game better, it wouldn't effect PvE commanders)
Another note - PvE oriented people don't see the point of this upgrade, because it won't effect them. They just don't see the reason we need that upgrade and vote no. Basically all "I don't care" votes went to "No" camp.
But please understand that this upd: meaningless (not meaningfully) looking upgrade would make PvP encounters way more interesting. It would liven up the game. So, if you don't really care - vote "Yes". You'll win in the end.
Another note - PvE oriented people don't see the point of this upgrade, because it won't effect them. They just don't see the reason we need that upgrade and vote no. Basically all "I don't care" votes went to "No" camp.
But please understand that this upd: meaningless (not meaningfully) looking upgrade would make PvP encounters way more interesting. It would liven up the game. So, if you don't really care - vote "Yes". You'll win in the end.
Last edited:
Maybe that phenomenon happens because PvP players are looking for the cheapest ship possible to control their exposure, so a better Eagle, the 2nd most inexpensive ship being up-graded would appeal to them more. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. I don;t know, but the Eagle does it's thing for it's price. I don't see that it needs more.
.
P.S. The fact that you may focus on PvP would impart a bias towards meeting and remembering other PvP players.
Last edited:
Doesn't have to be the case. There was a discussion here some time ago: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=121063
Doctor PvE, I presume?
Well, i've done a lot of PvE myself and I really don't see the point of going higher than Viper for it, unless you are going to mass-murder NPCs somwhere. So speeding up the Eagle for PvE wouldn't change anything for me.
But for PvP it would make it a viable ship with it's own role of a suicidal harasser of human commanders of big ships and give it a leg against a Viper and Cobra players.
I've already mentioned the stupid tactics of breaking away from small ship turn around and wait for it to come toward you - then you kill it or deal some immense damage to it and repeat the procedure until you're done. Unfortunately this is exactly how most player would fight eagle right now - there is no need to maneuver, just act as a stationary canon. And it's making PvP fights boring.
I just tried to point out that there is always a bias with these kinds of observations. Not just you, everyone. For the record, I have been known to drag an Eagle into PvP situations. I did it so I could get a thrill without breaking my meager credit balance. That's the root of my response. Insulting or trying to drive the PvE vs. PvP wedge deeper isn't going to make your suggestion a good idea. A good idea has a power of it's own that doesn't require advertising campaigns.
I don't see where i've insulted you. Is it my suggestion that you're pure PvE commander. I just can't see it as an insult. PvE is a part of the game - you take what you like best. There is no wedge driving - just facts.
Anyway I've found a much more radical description of Eagle role in the thread mentioned by Poseidal:
ere is a quote from OP there:
I want much slighter change to Eagle speed and acceleration - and we'll see how it goes from there.
Last edited:
But it's not a fact that I am a PvE Commander. You got that wrong. When players mention that stuff it is often to dismiss, or belittle an opinion. Sometimes text can leave the reader with the wrong impression. Having a new or old description doesn't change my views. You'll have to read that thread through to see where it ended.
We have misunderstanding. What I stated as fact is this: PvE is part of the game, PvP is another part of the same game. If upping Eagle speed isn't changing/breaking PvE part, but making better PvP part, then why not do it? Still feel insulted and belittled? I don't care then.
It's great there are people in the world savvy in spotting bad design and ready to tell us what we need. Seriously man, work on your propaganda, that kind of presentation is way too blunt for anyone who enjoys using their own brain. Borderline insulting. Try speaking for yourself.
Eagle has many purposes already. A tool for learning FAoff, a duel ship for a set-up match with another commander, a challenging ship for fighting groups of NPC's or bulky targets. A small throwaway fighter for performing dangerous missions deep behind enemy lines. It looks great, sounds great and is an absolute joy to fly. What you want is to watch some Python turn around and leave, because he has better things to do rather than chase an insane fly zigzagging around him. Note that the python is "running away" not because he can die, but due to lack of interest as he won't die regardless. He has 5x times better weapons, shields and can jump away at will, being heavy.
Personally, I don't mind any buff to the Eagle, as you can see from my vote, because to me, it will always be just that - a light fighter. If people want it - why not? Just casting my doubt over your assumption that +50 m/s will make it the FdL killer. That, and the vote is not sufficiently overwhelming.
Peace.
To me the question we should ask instead: Why NOT? It wouldn't be overpowered. It wouldn't mean the eagle would be too strong for its cost. It would only mean that the small fighter would actually behave as a small fighter instead of a ship that's surprisingly slow for its size and intended role.
The funny thing to me is that those who are against the idea will probably never use the eagle anyway.
The funny thing to me is that those who are against the idea will probably never use the eagle anyway.
Last edited:
This could be said about any ship currently in game. I don't see how it's related specifically to Eagle
There is no cat in you is there? Never tried to catch an annoying fly? It can be pretty fun or pretty annoying for me in my FdL to catch a speedy Eagle. For now I just need to turn towards it and press a button - that's it and it's as boring as it's sounds. There is no game in it.