We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE
- Thread starter BEKTOP 3APEMOB
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I also don't understand it really, why some people are so against this idea. All it would do is increase the variety of player-flown ships you encounter (solo and as part of a wing), which would be a good thing. Do you lot really want to eventually see 99% of all players fly around in one of only a small selection of "endgame" ships: Vulture, FDL, Anaconda?
Also, if you are arguing so much that the Eagle were fine because it is cheap and therefore needs no further purpose than a stepping stone - you should demand massive nerfs to the Vulture. An FDL costs much more and is about on equal footing, and just the base model of an Anaconda costs like 5 A-rated Vultures, surely a Vulture should be absolutely incapable of defeating an Anaconda unless the latter is flown by a complete scrub? Because that would be the logical consequence if one were to follow your reasoning.
In what situation is an Eagle a good support fighter where a Vulture is not 100% better?
Every single situation where the Vulture is not 1000% as expensive.
Killing a foe is 1000% more value than dying cheaply.
Where did I say it was better?
If you have the money for the Vulture, you should not be using an Eagle.
The Eagle's entire purposes for existing, it's whole niche, is "cheap". It's not supposed to compete with the Vulture, or much of any other combat ship for that matter.
You say it is primarily a support fighter as an argument against improving its speed. That would imply you consider this a reason why the Eagle does not deserve that improvement, because it already has a useful combat role; while my point is, there is a ship which fulfills any combat niche one may assign the Eagle to, much better.
Yes, you are correct. That is the status quo. The very point of this thread is to change that status quo.
Five Eagles will down a Vulture that doesn't leave. A government can field at least ten Eagles for the price of one Vulture. That's the niche. Cheap. Expendable. It's the ship you give to those fresh out of flight school, so if they survive, you know they are the material for something better.
Even if we talk about CMDRs specifically, not every CMDR can afford a Vulture. Indeed, the overwhelming majority cannot.
If cost is not an issue, there is no reason to use an Eagle, except for a challenge, and there is nothing wrong with this situation. Some ships are better than others.
Correct. All ships are equal, it's just some ships are more equal than others.
Why would the eagle be better that a viper or vulture?
It wouldn't. Just look at the price point.
Even if I agreed with this madness it's a game breaker. Why would anybody want 20 vanilla ships?
Also this argument is based on pvp, the smallest group in the game.
Using a faster Eagle (let's say Cobra speed) is still a challenge. In fact speed is one of the things that doesn't make a ship automatically better without learning to utilize it well. A faster Eagle would still have paper-thin shields and weak weapons. But it would be able to capitalize on that small size and agility when not every other fighter in existance can simply outrun it.
That may not necessarily be true. A Government may not need to pay tax, which we know could be in the rate of 300% minimum.
The higher value of these ships might be extra taxes on top of them. In a past universe the Fer de Lance was a banned ship even.
This is the problem. It's an Eagle, it's not throwaway, it's a freaking Eagle. A Falcon or Kestrel, that would be throwaway. This is an interstellar starship, it's made for fighting, and it should at least be useful in some aspect.
What's next? Maybe the Cobra will be replaced with another ship that's better in every way? Oh, but you're not supposed to fly the Cobra! It's cheap and throwaway! Not supposed to compete! The SupahCobra 3000 is better in every way!
Is this going to be a game where all ships except the extremely expensive ones are just steps in the ladder to the ultimate fighter? This is not a good thing.
Ok, so you don't like how the results of your own poll have gone so you're now going to, on the strength of a personal anecdote about who you run into, claim that this is based on a PvP and PvE perspective. Ok, you're completely wrong (for a start there are many systems, for a second thing you don't necessarily play at the same time as others, and for a third many people use a different name here and in game), but let's just make the outrageous assumption that you're correct....
The game of Elite is, and always has been, PvE. This is a game with a dynamic universe where you can, for the first time, interact with other people playing. It isn't World of Tanks or Warthunder or one of those games. If your principle idea in playing is to hop into a ship on day 1 and take on all comers (even if you don't expect to defeat them) in an arena style contest then you're quite simply playing the wrong game.
The Eagle is worth 10k. The FDL is worth 50million. That's a difference of 5000 [in magnitude], and that's not even including the cost to upgrade and arm each ship, which only amplifies that magnitude. To properly outfit a FDL takes weeks (if not more) of playtime, grinding, bounty hunting, trading, whatever in order to do it. So if you're saying that the Eagle should be at all comparable to the FDL what you're basically saying is that all of that work, in essence the core game of Elite, the very soul of it, isn't really what this game should be about at all. I absolutely think you should be able to enjoy a space fighting game, but Elite isn't the one you're after.
The Eagle is fine as it is because it is cheap and needs no further purpose than a throwaway vehicle. It is already pretty quick and extremely agile. It can be bought almost immediately upon starting the game. 30 minutes of trading in a sidewinder, or one or two missions from the bulletin board, and you can get this thing. You can fly it out, fly it around, smash it to pieces, and easily cover the insurance costs.
This vehicle costs 10k. THAT'S it's niche. It doesn't need another niche to go with it.
I think the name of it is pretty immaterial; the Sidewinder is a desert dwelling venomous snake which is a fantastic survivor, and here it is the weakest ship. Why isn't it called "The Garter"? I demand a buff to the Sidewinder!
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and yet again, for the benefit of those yelling the 'CHEAP!' excuse, I post this:
Incidentally, just as an aside, I've noticed that those most rabidly opposed to the letters 'MMO' also seem to argue in favour of it's most common mechanic (linear progression/gear treadmill, call it what you will). Ironic huh?
Incidentally, just as an aside, I've noticed that those most rabidly opposed to the letters 'MMO' also seem to argue in favour of it's most common mechanic (linear progression/gear treadmill, call it what you will). Ironic huh?
The Cobra is the fastest ship in the game (I have a trader Cobra that does 462 empty and my combat Cobra is good for 450+). An Eagle that is this fast becomes utterly untouchable. Cobra and Clippers couldn't corner one (both too heavy and too slow), and another Eagle wouldn't have the firepower to make a kill likely before one was able to disengage.
Speed is the single most important attribute for a combat vessel. The change you propose would make Eagles the premier scout vessel, and the best pursuit craft in the game. A pair of missile or torpedo Eagles could knock out almost any fleeing ship that dared to let it's shields fail. No ship would have either the maneuverability, nor the straight line speed, to have a chance at escape or evasion.
I'd go so far as to say that the Eagle becomes an entirely different ship, and one that is not going to improve the game, if it's anything other than the slowest dedicated fighter.
I'm not opposed to the introduction of a fast interceptor craft, but it should be expensive and have disadvantages the Eagle does not.
Yes, the bulk of ship prices are taxes and other fees, but a Vulture is still a more advanced craft of nearly quintuple the hull mass. There is no doubt that, even on raw materials cost alone, the Vulture is much more expensive.
I do not like this idea at all.
It's worse than any of the other ideas being argued, and would result in excessive sameness between vessels.
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Yes, because being completely unable to identify the approximate characteristics and top end potential of a spacecraft by what it is, as well as having eagles owning anacondas, will add immersion to the game and give people even more incentive to go after those big ships won't it?
Why not give an eagle the ability to have a 400T cargo bay if you're going to start giving it large hardpoints?
In Elite: Dangerous, the Eagle has always been an entry level craft while the Falcon and Kestrel do not yet exist.
Hmmm...
I could imagine taking it back to the manufacturer to upgrade it to modern standards.
This rebuild wouldn't be cheap, but make it a viable ship again.
That way it wouldn't be a "throw away" anymore and make it a competitive ship again.
And noone would know if it's a stock one or already modified
I could imagine taking it back to the manufacturer to upgrade it to modern standards.
This rebuild wouldn't be cheap, but make it a viable ship again.
That way it wouldn't be a "throw away" anymore and make it a competitive ship again.
And noone would know if it's a stock one or already modified