We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE

[Defacto]

In Elite: Dangerous, the Eagle has always been an entry level craft while the Falcon and Kestrel do not yet exist.

No?

It was great before we had all these victory machines, now it's pretty useless. With the speed increase suggested in the OP, it will still be pretty useless as a combat craft, but it would at least be capable of running from most situations.
May I ask, what is not ''entry level'' for you? Is every combat ship except the Vulture and ferdelance supposed to be a ladder step to the ''big boys''? This is a worrying development that reeks of traditional MMO thinking.

Look at the Cobra and the Asp: This is a great example of how you can make a more expensive ship more attractive, while still having a use for the Cobra.

Ok, so you don't like how the results of your own poll have gone so you're now going to, on the strength of a personal anecdote about who you run into, claim that this is based on a PvP and PvE perspective. Ok, you're completely wrong (for a start there are many systems, for a second thing you don't necessarily play at the same time as others, and for a third many people use a different name here and in game), but let's just make the outrageous assumption that you're correct....

The game of Elite is, and always has been, PvE. This is a game with a dynamic universe where you can, for the first time, interact with other people playing. It isn't World of Tanks or Warthunder or one of those games. If your principle idea in playing is to hop into a ship on day 1 and take on all comers (even if you don't expect to defeat them) in an arena style contest then you're quite simply playing the wrong game.

The Eagle is worth 10k. The FDL is worth 50million. That's a difference of 5000 [in magnitude], and that's not even including the cost to upgrade and arm each ship, which only amplifies that magnitude. To properly outfit a FDL takes weeks (if not more) of playtime, grinding, bounty hunting, trading, whatever in order to do it. So if you're saying that the Eagle should be at all comparable to the FDL what you're basically saying is that all of that work, in essence the core game of Elite, the very soul of it, isn't really what this game should be about at all. I absolutely think you should be able to enjoy a space fighting game, but Elite isn't the one you're after.



The Eagle is fine as it is because it is cheap and needs no further purpose than a throwaway vehicle. It is already pretty quick and extremely agile. It can be bought almost immediately upon starting the game. 30 minutes of trading in a sidewinder, or one or two missions from the bulletin board, and you can get this thing. You can fly it out, fly it around, smash it to pieces, and easily cover the insurance costs.

This vehicle costs 10k. THAT'S it's niche. It doesn't need another niche to go with it.



I think the name of it is pretty immaterial; the Sidewinder is a desert dwelling venomous snake which is a fantastic survivor, and here it is the weakest ship. Why isn't it called "The Garter"? I demand a buff to the Sidewinder!

As much as I think ED should follow the traditions of previous elite games, this simply isn't FE2 any more. Doing the Sol-Barnard's run for 20 hours shouldn't result in you being capable of fitting a gigantic behemoth with 10 shield generators, practically invulerable to weapons fire and ramming everything smaller than a Lynx. This worked in the previous games, but now, there needs to be other ways to reward players for their successes and earnings.
It is possible to balance large ships so that they remain attractive, while not making the smaller ships inferior in every aspect.

No one is saying ''Make the Eagle as good of a combat ship as the Vulture/Fdl!'', but I do think that the Eagle should be comparable to them. I think that the Eagle should have a place where it can be more useful than the other ships. Being cheap isn't a real niche. I think the ''throwaway ship'' excuse is a lie that doesn't ground itself in realistic thinking. I can't imagine any situation where you would find the low rebuy more useful than survivability/firepower, except possibly if you're flying around in beginner systems griefing players, and want to do it for as long as possible.

About the name: I wasn't talking about the name. The Eagle is an interstellar fighter craft that was developed for naval use. That is why it should be a useful fighter craft (though it is now getting obsolete). Ships like the Falcon and Kestrel would be the real throwaways, although I actually think that even those could find a real niche if they were implemented in ED, as extremely agile, but very weak and short-ranged light fighters.

 

[FuzzySpider]

No?

It was great before we had all these victory machines, now it's pretty useless. With the speed increase suggested in the OP, it will still be pretty useless as a combat craft, but it would at least be capable of running from most situations.
May I ask, what is not ''entry level'' for you? Is every combat ship except the Vulture and ferdelance supposed to be a ladder step to the ''big boys''? This is a worrying development that reeks of traditional MMO thinking.

Look at the Cobra and the Asp: This is a great example of how you can make a more expensive ship more attractive, while still having a use for the Cobra.

The viper is still a useful ship and has the speed that you seem to want for the eagle (I don't know why the people yelling for this buff haven't simply bought vipers) as well as two medium hardpoints. It can take on an regular asp or a cobra (both of which are endgame vessels) and a group of them can be utterly deadly.

Aside from that, which other combat ship are you talking about when you say "every"?

No one is saying ''Make the Eagle as good of a combat ship as the Vulture/Fdl!'', but I do think that the Eagle should be comparable to them.

That looks like a complete oxymoron to me. Aside from the fact you want to be able to compare a Ford Kia with a Bugatti Veyron, you seem to want only their combat abilities made comparable but not their cost. Talk about buffing the actual price you pay for the eagle up to about 2 or 3 million and I'll be on your side in this debate. Until then you seem to just be wanting to have your cake and eat it.

Being cheap isn't a real niche.

Yes it is. Ships aren't just balanced by ability but also by cost. The game needs something very cheap and cheerful a newcomer can pick up after a day or so, that can be easily upgraded to accomodate going on missions where there might be hazards. The eagle is a capable low end combat craft tailored for that very purpose.

 

[Defacto]

The viper is still a useful ship and has the speed that you seem to want for the eagle (I don't know why the people yelling for this buff haven't simply bought vipers) as well as two medium hardpoints. It can take on an regular asp or a cobra (both of which are endgame vessels) and a group of them can be utterly deadly.

Aside from that, which other combat ship are you talking about when you say "every"?

And the Viper is only slightly more expensive than the Eagle, so even when you bring in price into the equation, you still have to admit that the Eagle is pretty useless, unless you want to sacrifice cosniderable weapons power, speed, range and utility for the very slight manueverability advantage the Eagle has.

 

[Morbad]

No?

It was great before we had all these victory machines, now it's pretty useless.

I remember it not being all that useful, relative to the Viper or Cobra, as far back as Beta 1. I never had to worry about CMDRs in Eagles, but they damn well had to worry about me, even when I was a week into the game with my Viper, back in early September.

May I ask, what is not ''entry level'' for you? Is every combat ship except the Vulture and ferdelance supposed to be a ladder step to the ''big boys''

Anything that still has a niche on the PvP battlefield, which includes ships as low as the Viper and Cobra.

Look at the Cobra and the Asp: This is a great example of how you can make a more expensive ship more attractive, while still having a use for the Cobra.

I agree. However, I don't think this situation is remotely analogous to what a super fast Eagle would result in.

The Viper and Vulture are a good example of this currently. The Viper is not going to win a stand up fight with a Vulture, not even close, but it's got the same acceleration, a much smaller profile, and is 20m/s faster. It also carries a weapon's loadout that can be dangerous, even to larger ships.

I can take a Viper into a conflict zone with hostile players today, and put in a worthwhile contribution. I can fly circles around an FDL or Clipper, unless they try to open up a gap, in which case I can just point in the other direction and jump out before they can catch me. I can keep out of reach of Vultures and anything slower. I can shoot down or drive off most anyone still in a Cobra.

No one is saying ''Make the Eagle as good of a combat ship as the Vulture/Fdl!'', but I do think that the Eagle should be comparable to them.

I don't.

And the Viper is only slightly more expensive than the Eagle, so even when you bring in price into the equation, you still have to admit that the Eagle is pretty useless, unless you want to sacrifice cosniderable weapons power, speed, range and utility for the very slight manueverability advantage the Eagle has.

A fully equipped Viper is roughly double the price of a fully equipped Eagle.

The Eagle is the entry level combat ship in the same way the Hauler is the entry level trade ship...yes the Hauler is still a useful explorer and taxi, but as a trade ship it's not even a match for the Viper. The Eagle is on that same level as far as combat goes, in this game. It's just outclassed at it's job by the next step up and every successive step there after.

 

[Defacto]

I remember it not being all that useful, relative to the Viper or Cobra, as far back as Beta 1. I never had to worry about CMDRs in Eagles, but they damn well had to worry about me, even when I was a week into the game with my Viper, back in early September.



Anything that still has a niche on the PvP battlefield, which includes ships as low as the Viper and Cobra.



I agree. However, I don't think this situation is remotely analogous to what a super fast Eagle would result in.

The Viper and Vulture are a good example of this currently. The Viper is not going to win a stand up fight with a Vulture, not even close, but it's got the same acceleration, a much smaller profile, and is 20m/s faster. It also carries a weapon's loadout that can be dangerous, even to larger ships.

I can take a Viper into a conflict zone with hostile players today, and put in a worthwhile contribution. I can fly circles around an FDL or Clipper, unless they try to open up a gap, in which case I can just point in the other direction and jump out before they can catch me. I can keep out of reach of Vultures and anything slower. I can shoot down or drive off most anyone still in a Cobra.



I don't.

Why do you think that? Why should the Eagle not be relevant/comparable/useful?
You certainly can't claim that it is from a price standpoint, the Viper is barely more expensive, and, as you say, there's at least some use in having that ship.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Why do you think that? Why should the Eagle not be relevant/comparable/useful?
You certainly can't claim that it is from a price standpoint, the Viper is barely more expensive, and, as you say, there's at least some use in having that ship.

A viper is triple the price isn't it? It's something you do have to put some effort in to get if you've just started out. Also a class A viper can set you back a good few million. While you can manage to blow that much on an Eagle you'd leave it so uttely underpowered it would be useless. The Eagle isn't designed to run any big weapons or use particularly powerful shields.

 

[Gold Member]

After I examined voters list, I noticed an interesting thing. I had pvp battles and duels with a lot of people who voted "Yes", but I've never met anyone from "No" list in-game. I think there may be a pattern here: PvP players vs PvE players (and while speedy Eagle would make PvP game better, it wouldn't effect PvE commanders)

Another note - PvE oriented people don't see the point of this upgrade, because it won't effect them. They just don't see the reason we need that upgrade and vote no. Basically all "I don't care" votes went to "No" camp.

But please understand that this meaningfully looking upgrade would make PvP encounters way more interesting. It would liven up the game. So, if you don't really care - vote "Yes". You'll win in the end.

You post this immediately after my post. smh.

I use my Eagle in Open and voted no. When guys in much larger ships interdict me and then tend to run away because they are going to die, I think the ship is even a little OP. In the right hands and with the right loadout it is a highly capable ship, and may be too cheap.

Using this small single person fighter as a template, some minor upgrades (power plant, armor, changing two of the small hardpoints to medium) could give us the Eagle II, a specialized Wing fighter.

If you think it needs any buffs at all, given how cheap it is, you should stick to Solo.

 

[Defacto]

A viper is triple the price isn't it? It's something you do have to put some effort in to get if you've just started out. Also a class A viper can set you back a good few million. While you can manage to blow that much on an Eagle you'd leave it so uttely underpowered it would be useless. The Eagle isn't designed to run any big weapons or use particularly powerful shields.

It's always useless. I don't see your point. The Eagle as it is currently doesn't seem to be designed to have any useful combat role at all. It isn't even good at fleeing, and that combined with its crappy jumprange makes it useless as a courier, too.
You're also right in that it's pretty hard to get a useful A-fitted Eagle, and the price for that is even closer to the price of an A-fitted Viper than the purchase prices of the ships themselves. Yet another nail in the coffin for the Eagle.

You post this immediately after my post. smh.

I use my Eagle in Open and voted no. When guys in much larger ships interdict me and then tend to run away because they are going to die, I think the ship is even a little OP. In the right hands and with the right loadout it is a highly capable ship, and may be too cheap.

Using this small single person fighter as a template, some minor upgrades (power plant, armor, changing two of the small hardpoints to medium) could give us the Eagle II, a specialized Wing fighter.

If you think it needs any buffs at all, given how cheap it is, you should stick to Solo.

Could you make a video? I've seen lots of players that appear skilled at fighter combat struggle at even damaging the shields of player Pythons when they fly Vipers, so I would really like to see how you handle your ship to get an upper hand against these opponents when flying an Eagle.

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Yes, because being completely unable to identify the approximate characteristics and top end potential of a spacecraft by what it is, as well as having eagles owning anacondas, will add immersion to the game and give people even more incentive to go after those big ships won't it?

Why not give an eagle the ability to have a 400T cargo bay if you're going to start giving it large hardpoints?

*sigh* ok, missed the point again, I see.

being able to identify how dangerous something is by looking at it. I really shouldn't have to go into this, but here goes. a ford fiesta with a grenade launcher on the passenger seat. an old tank that appears fine on the outside, but hasn't been upgraded/maintained in years (e class modules) and now the guns don't work. which is more dangerous?

yes you can currently tell in game how dangerous something is. should you always be able to? that is debatable.

as for motivation to get big ships, you misunderstood my post in a different topic, and seemed not to read it at all, I'll post my response from there in here.

This has nothing to do with being more able to afford big ships quickly.

An eagle as powerful as the 'big ships' (vulture) would be MORE expensive than the vulture due to upgrade costs, but it would be POSSIBLE.

The standard eagle would still be a cheap, weaker stepping stone, but once the player acquired enough wealth, they could outfit it if it was their favourite craft to still be able to compete at the top levels.




I also made the suggestion that:

big ships (python, fdl, anaconda) could equip for killing big ships (with cannons, plasma, C3/C4 lasers, etc) or fighters (C2 or C1 lasers, multicannons), but not both at the same time.

small ships ( eagle-vulture) could equip for killing big ships (with cannons, dumbfires, torpedoes, plasma) or fighters (lasers, multicannons), but not both at the same time.

Multicannons would require a nerf against large ship's subsystems for this to work (which is needed anyway, IMHO), but it WOULD work.

Instead of being all powerful, you must make choices about WHERE you want to be effective. Like in the real world.

Finally, Morbad, if this were implemented, of course vessels would need to maintain a niche (fastest, most agile, heaviest weapons). but at the moment, there are no niches. there is simply the best you can afford. no choice. no subtlety. no meaningful decision.

 

[Morbad]

Why do you think that? Why should the Eagle not be relevant/comparable/useful?

Because we don't have any other entry level combat focused ships (and we don't need any because we have the Eagle). The Viper needs too many upgrades to not suck (and is too good when it gets them) for me to consider it entry level, while the Eagle pretty much sucks no matter what, but will put in a much better showing than the Sidewinder (not that the Sidewinder is a slouch, all things considered) for not a lot of money.

The Adder can fight alright, but has a few downsides that rule it out of this role. It's shields are not really any stronger than the Eagle and every time it takes a hit to hull the cockpit is breached.

After I examined voters list, I noticed an interesting thing. I had pvp battles and duels with a lot of people who voted "Yes", but I've never met anyone from "No" list in-game. I think there may be a pattern here: PvP players vs PvE players (and while speedy Eagle would make PvP game better, it wouldn't effect PvE commanders)

Pure coincidence.

I'm a PvP centric player and I do not believe an upgraded Eagle would make the game better.

Also, I still fly under my Backer # in game.

 

[Morbad]

*but at the moment, there are no niches. there is simply the best you can afford. no choice. no subtlety. no meaningful decision.

I vehemently disagree.

I've been fighting with the Vulture, Clipper, and FDL quite a bit recently, and they all have solid niches in combat, they can all do things none of the others can do. The Python and Anaconda still have niches in combat. Even the Viper and Cobra still have niches in combat. And by combat I mean PvP.

 

[Mephane]

Could you make a video? I've seen lots of players that appear skilled at fighter combat struggle at even damaging the shields of player Pythons when they fly Vipers, so I would really like to see how you handle your ship to get an upper hand against these opponents when flying an Eagle.

Let's not turn this into a PvE vs PvP player opinion thread. There have already been claims here that anyone who wants the Eagle to be faster were in it only for the PvP. I voted yes and I do 99% PvE, what little PvP I happen to encounter is only circumstancial.

I've been fighting with the Vulture, Clipper, and FDL quite a bit recently, and they all have solid niches in combat, they can all do things none of the others can do. The Python and Anaconda still have niches in combat. Even the Viper and Cobra still have niches in combat. And by combat I mean PvP.

Good. Now what we are asking for is a solid niche for the Eagle, too. A Viper is vastly cheaper than an FDL yet you don't have a problem with it still being a useful ship; it's not much more expensive to A-rate than an Eagle anyway, ~3 million vs ~2million. Compare that with an 80million FDL and that price difference becomes meaningless.

If you were consistent you would demand nerfs to the Viper and Cobra because they are also much, much cheaper than a Vulture and FDL, but they do have useful roles in combat.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Finally, Morbad, if this were implemented, of course vessels would need to maintain a niche (fastest, most agile, heaviest weapons). but at the moment, there are no niches. there is simply the best you can afford. no choice. no subtlety. no meaningful decision.

[My Bold]

What on earth...

Elite dangerous has (for example) the long range explorer such as the Asp, which can also be used to trade rare goods effectively. It has the superb and inexpensive all rounder in Cobra, which is also excellent for smuggling. It has the fast and sharp little Viper, which can ravage other ships and be used as attack dogs for other, larger vessels. It has some dedicated trading vessels like the Lakons. It's got the close quarters death machine in the Vulture, and the speedy and tough intercepter in the FDL. It's also got two well balanced tanks in the Anaconda and the Python, one emphasising power and shielding, the other being more nimble and quicker.

And even within each ship there is choice and subtlety. Do I take class D stuff to keep the weight down, class A stuff for performance, or class B stuff for endurance? Do I use shield boosters or shield cells? Chaff or put on some scanners?

The game is built on that sort of ship roleplay. That's half the point of it.

 

[hanks01]

Upgrading the Eagle's speed would effect PVE just as much as it would PVP if the AI decides to use it... which based on my last two encounters with a particular persistent Viper and Cobra tell me that they would. A well flown Eagle can already sit behind Python's, Anaconda's and FDLs with turrets being the only real danger they face. A well equipped Eagle already outpaces the Python and Anaconda so they rely on their turrets to do the damage. Match the speed to of the Eagle to an FDL and it's one chance of superiority (ie: boosting and turning) is gone.

On the hardpoint point of view, I finally upgraded my power plant to A last night on the FDL so I could fit a couple of shields boosters. Admittedly I've only got a C5 shield but once I can afford it I'll get an A5 and drop one of the boosters (for power reasons.) However, contrary to previous posts, I was engaging a Sidewinder whilst an Eagle was attacking my shields. Being AI they weren't exactly the most accurate but still managed to take 1 1/2 rings off me so they really are a danger. 3 Commander flow Eagles would present a major problem, especially on combat zones where there are a variety of ships to contend with and could catch me napping whilst I'm frying the bigger fish (something the FDL is designed to do.)

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

[My Bold]

What on earth...

Elite dangerous has (for example) the long range explorer such as the Asp, which can also be used to trade rare goods effectively. It has the superb and inexpensive all rounder in Cobra, which is also excellent for smuggling. It has the fast and sharp little Viper, which can ravage other ships and be used as attack dogs for other, larger vessels. It has some dedicated trading vessels like the Lakons. It's got the close quarters death machine in the Vulture, and the speedy and tough intercepter in the FDL. It's also got two well balanced tanks in the Anaconda and the Python, one emphasising power and shielding, the other being more nimble and quicker.

And even within each ship there is choice and subtlety. Do I take class D stuff to keep the weight down, class A stuff for performance, or class B stuff for endurance? Do I use shield boosters or shield cells? Chaff or put on some scanners?

The game is built on that sort of ship roleplay. That's half the point of it.

funny thing is we actually agree

yes, those ships work well, and all have their niche.

the eagle should have one too. the viper may perhaps need less of an upgrade, but I still think it could use a little boost (that it should pay for). not huge, just enough to make a one on one between a vulture and a viper more nail biting than currently.

I agree with you that the larger ships work well, I'm sure you are reading my post in the other thread as we speak

 

[Defacto]

Upgrading the Eagle's speed would effect PVE just as much as it would PVP if the AI decides to use it... which based on my last two encounters with a particular persistent Viper and Cobra tell me that they would. A well flown Eagle can already sit behind Python's, Anaconda's and FDLs with turrets being the only real danger they face. A well equipped Eagle already outpaces the Python and Anaconda so they rely on their turrets to do the damage. Match the speed to of the Eagle to an FDL and it's one chance of superiority (ie: boosting and turning) is gone.

On the hardpoint point of view, I finally upgraded my power plant to A last night on the FDL so I could fit a couple of shields boosters. Admittedly I've only got a C5 shield but once I can afford it I'll get an A5 and drop one of the boosters (for power reasons.) However, contrary to previous posts, I was engaging a Sidewinder whilst an Eagle was attacking my shields. Being AI they weren't exactly the most accurate but still managed to take 1 1/2 rings off me so they really are a danger. 3 Commander flow Eagles would present a major problem, especially on combat zones where there are a variety of ships to contend with and could catch me napping whilst I'm frying the bigger fish (something the FDL is designed to do.)

A well flown Vulture can't sit behind Anacondas and Ferdelances? A well-flown vulture can't deal out vastly more damage per second while also being extremely survivable compared to the Eagle?
An Eagle would never have a chance to win a fight against an Anaconda or Python. Even if you completely outmanuever the Python/Anaconda, and this Python/Anaconda has no comrades at all to help, they can still jump out at will, and this is not a victory for the Eagle, this is a loss, because Eagles can only fight, while Anacondas and Pythons can do all kinds of useful stuff.

3 Commander flown Eagles would present a major problem? Compared to 3 player flown Vipers, not really. Compared to 3 player flown Vultures, not at all. 3 player flown Eagles, against one ferdelance? If the Eagles are competent, then maybe they can make the ferdelance run out of their range. Nothing else.

 

[Morbad]

Good. Now what we are asking for is a solid niche for the Eagle, too.

It's the introduction to dedicated combat craft for thousands of CMDRs. It's relatively easy to fly (low skill floor, fairly high ceiling), unlike the Viper (high floor, very high ceiling...you need to have good grasp of vertical/lateral thrusters to get much out of a Viper). It lets novice CMDRs who don't yet have much money kill stuff 50% faster than they could with the Sidewinder, while forcing them to learn about outfitting and power management.

A Viper is vastly cheaper than an FDL yet you don't have a problem with it still being a useful ship; it's not much more expensive to A-rate than an Eagle anyway, ~3 million vs ~2million. Compare that with an 80million FDL and that price difference becomes meaningless.

A useful Eagle (the point where you are better off in an Eagle than a Sidewinde) is about 200-250k. A useful Viper is over a million.

If you were consistent you would demand nerfs to the Viper and Cobra because they are also much, much cheaper than a Vulture and FDL, but they do have useful roles in combat.

I don't think I'm being inconsistent. The Eagle has it's niche (mentioned above), and a large (though certainly not only) part of the Viper and Cobra niches comes from the reality that they are generally classified as lesser threats by those flying the more powerful ships. I cannot afford to ignore the Python in favor of the Viper, but the Viper can still present a threat, and if I need to run, that threat can be very acute as the Viper is fast enough to keep up and hits hard enough to make a difference. There are two ships that can keep pace with my Clipper: another Clipper...or a Cobra. My Vulture can disengage from anything, by Virtue of it's massive power to mass ratio...except a Viper which can manage the same acceleration.

I'm okay with the Viper and Cobra being cheaper because despite being useful against the larger vessels, they are clearly in a lower tier.

The Eagle is in the lowest tier, and while it can, in the right hands, drive off a Cobra or occasionally a Viper, it's almost never useful against the top ships.

Note that this is an observation, not an advocation of this sort of tiering. Personally, I'm not one to overly or arbitrarily stratify things, but I do think ships should offer plausible and tangible advantages over others, even if it means some ships are throughly outclassed at some point.

The viper may perhaps need less of an upgrade, but I still think it could use a little boost (that it should pay for). not huge, just enough to make a one on one between a vulture and a viper more nail biting than currently.

I'm even more against upgrading the Viper and it's my favorite ship.

Upgrading the Eagle's speed would effect PVE just as much as it would PVP if the AI decides to use it... which based on my last two encounters with a particular persistent Viper and Cobra tell me that they would.

AI Eagles are some of the most annoying ships in the game and are more of a distraction/chore than much larger vessels.

 

[Count Iblis]

I disagree. Sidewinder is the best ship for smuggling right now. Least suspicious. At least that is what Frontier wants it to become. And they definitely want to make all ships useful.
There shouldn't be a direct progression that buying bigger ship makes you better at everything. Bigger ships should have trouble fighting small interceptors - right now it's just a simple boost or two, turn around and fire a couple of times - that's it.

If you have money IRL- your cars and other equipment get better. Quality costs- and its the price of EARNING to achieve. The concept of ACHIEVING and a meritocracy may be hard for some to understand when they advocate communism- but think of it as- the person who EARNED the more powerful ship worked hard to get there and deserves it - rather than 'we all deserve to have better ships'.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

The Eagle is described as a phased out ship that is no longer manufactured, though still used by a lot of navies. It is working as intended.

 

[Morbad]

The Eagle is described as a phased out ship that is no longer manufactured, though still used by a lot of navies. It is working as intended.

It's like the T-72. Most powerful vehicle on the battlefield across large swaths of Africa, the Middle East, and parts of Asia...but totally outclassed by modern MBTs.