Weapon damage falloff

This is mostly just a quick PSA, to give people a heads up about something that maybe some of you know already, though most of you likely don't, as it's something i only just realised after playing this game for the last year...

That basically all the game's weapons have damage falloff (which i kind of expected, with some types of the games weapons, even then much of their falloff only really makes sense of weapons fired in a planet's atmosphere, not really with weapons fired in space :) )...

In particular you might expect lasers to possibly be immune to damage falloff or at the very least be affected the least, but they're actually basically the worst affected by it.

Now again while as said, i only just noticed the damage falloff stat on a particular weapon in the game, then found the following linked chart, though i of course noticed that my weapons were less effective at long range, but i put this down to my weapon's accuracy and convergence at those distances, the big thing i didn't realise was that my shots were doing physically less damage at longer ranges! :) .

Indeed basically all of this game's lasers have pretty shocking damage dropoff...

For example, while pulse lasers have a maximum range of 3 kilometres, they start dropping off at 500 metres! (with beam lasers etc being almost as bad).
While in comparison, multicannons have a maximum range of 4 kilometres and don't start to drop off until 2 kilometres out.

Anyway, here's a link to the full list:- http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Falloff .

Edit - I'd some more thoughts since i posted this :) ...

Of course when bullets are fired on Earth (and as they would react if fired on any atmospheric planet), they have a maximum distance, effective range and ultimate accuracy because they lose momentum as they travel, experience air resistance and the pull of gravity, having less kinetic energy as they slow down and will ultimate be pulled all the way to the ground, if they don't hit something else first...

While their accuracy is effected by how good the person who fired them's eye sight, optics, hand eye coordination is and how steady their hands are, while the accuracy of a bullet fired by a machine will be determined by its' sensitivity, smoothness, tracking accuracy and optics...

Bullets fired in space should realistically only have a maximum accuracy and tracking distance and no real maximum range or distance at which they do less damage because there's nothing to slow them down.
(Actually come to think of it, i believe bullets as we know them couldn't even be fired in space, because there's no oxygen in which their powder can ignite, though rocket launchers would have no trouble firing and we clearly regularly use rockets in space as a species...

Supposedly some of the first astronauts and cosmonauts went to space armed with small rocket launchers because of fears the other side would attack them in zero G, well at least so the urban legend says - that was actually a plot point in one of the Clive Cussler's, Dirk Pitt books :) .

But assuming you could get around that and actually fire them, bullets fired in space should go on forever, unless they hit something solid or come under the influence an objects' gravity :) .)

In this game the limit to a projectile weapon's range should only be the limit of any tracking systems being used, as in gimballed or turreted weapons and the ultimate distance at which your ship can track and target another ship, but if you can see a ship at this game's maximum draw distance and can manually target a shot to hit it, the projectile should still hit them with maximum force.

With lasers since they take energy to fire, it makes sense from them to have a maximum distance, but not for them to hit anything within that distance with any less force.

But of course all this being said, Frontier can make the weapons in this game behave however they like because this is ultimately a work of fiction and their own creation, in which they make all the laws of physics :) .
 
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This is why Long Range mods on laser weapons are the best. They make the weapon keep full damage throughout the range profile.
 
Yea even the focused mod doesn't give that great an increase to the drop off range. It is a bit odd when mc damage drop off on long-range mod is almost as good as the max actual range of modded lasers.

I thought bullets could be fired underwater and so air wasn't a problem (tho more of a hindrance to accuracy, along with gravity... so bullets in space all good) ;)
 
Yea even the focused mod doesn't give that great an increase to the drop off range. It is a bit odd when mc damage drop off on long-range mod is almost as good as the max actual range of modded lasers.

I thought bullets could be fired underwater and so air wasn't a problem (tho more of a hindrance to accuracy, along with gravity... so bullets in space all good) ;)

On bullets being fired under water, firstly i think it depends on the design of the gun being used and the bullets themselves...
I've heard of many guns not working if they become too wet or submerged in water, though i THINK i've heard of some capable of working under water, though perhaps they need to be especially designed to potentially be able to, rather than it being a "C r a p shoot" whether they do or not :) ....

At least most of the time if people are intending to shoot under water, they use spear guns, which will definitely work under it, because they rely completely on springs or similar devices to fire.
(While traditional guns often use springs to fire, if they don't use gas canisters instead, they're only being used to strike the bullet with a hammer, the thing which propels them forward is completely the ignition of their incased gun powder.).

But let's say it is possible for a bullet's charge to ignite under water - there's still a fair amount of oxygen in water (of course fish filter oxygen out of water to breath, though if they're in stagnant water or a tank they've filtered all the oxygen out of, they'll start to suffocate :_ ), certainly more than there is in the vacuum of space...

Though if i'm right in thinking bullets need a specific amount of oxygen in the air to fire, it'd be interesting to know how much and will traditional guns and bullets fire at higher and higher points in the atmosphere (or if they'd fire in 100% oxygen, for that matter :) ).

Perhaps if you created special bullets with oxygen cases, they'd fire completely outside the atmosphere, though they might just blow up the gun that fired them instead :) .
 
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I suspect there are more gameplay mechanics reasons. Dispersing cargo and mats would be very difficult and annoying to pick up after an explosion as they would disperse in all directions forever- sometimes reality needs a tweak!
 
I suspect there are more gameplay mechanics reasons. Dispersing cargo and mats would be very difficult and annoying to pick up after an explosion as they would disperse in all directions forever- sometimes reality needs a tweak!

Cargo containers COULD have stabilising thrusters to keep them flying from off, but as for loose material, indeed it really should be flying off, with us having to get out in front of it to catch it :) .
 
Exactly. And while we’re at it. We shouldn’t be able to see the lasers. And plasma accelerators are probably always going to be impossible. And boosting velocity should be limitless... We just have to trust that early play testing introduced drop-off to prevent an intolerable gameplay imbalance. In reality, most people would stop fighting after taking one bullet, but that’d make every FPS rather frustrating!
 
Exactly. And while we’re at it. We shouldn’t be able to see the lasers.

Depends on the lasers. IRL we have lasers that you can clearly see that can burn holes into stuff and lasers that are invisible that can explode drones out of the sky.
 
Depends on the lasers. IRL we have lasers that you can clearly see that can burn holes into stuff and lasers that are invisible that can explode drones out of the sky.

Ah but: the lasers we can see are visible because of Rayleigh scattering. Which you don’t get in space.
 
This is mostly just a quick PSA, to give people a heads up about something that maybe some of you know already, though most of you likely don't, as it's something i only just realised after playing this game for the last year...

That basically all the game's weapons have damage falloff (which i kind of expected, with some types of the games weapons, even then much of their falloff only really makes sense of weapons fired in a planet's atmosphere, not really with weapons fired in space :) )...

In particular you might expect lasers to possibly be immune to damage falloff or at the very least be affected the least, but they're actually basically the worst affected by it.

Now again while as said, i only just noticed the damage falloff stat on a particular weapon in the game, then found the following linked chart, though i of course noticed that my weapons were less effective at long range, but i put this down to my weapon's accuracy and convergence at those distances, the big thing i didn't realise was that my shots were doing physically less damage at longer ranges! :) .

Indeed basically all of this game's lasers have pretty shocking damage dropoff...

For example, while pulse lasers have a maximum range of 3 kilometres, they start dropping off at 500 metres! (with beam lasers etc being almost as bad).
While in comparison, multicannons have a maximum range of 4 kilometres and don't start to drop off until 2 kilometres out.

Anyway, here's a link to the full list:- http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Falloff .

Edit - I'd some more thoughts since i posted this :) ...

Of course when bullets are fired on Earth (and as they would react if fired on any atmospheric planet), they have a maximum distance, effective range and ultimate accuracy because they lose momentum as they travel, experience air resistance and the pull of gravity, having less kinetic energy as they slow down and will ultimate be pulled all the way to the ground, if they don't hit something else first...

While their accuracy is effected by how good the person who fired them's eye sight, optics, hand eye coordination is and how steady their hands are, while the accuracy of a bullet fired by a machine will be determined by its' sensitivity, smoothness, tracking accuracy and optics...

Bullets fired in space should realistically only have a maximum accuracy and tracking distance and no real maximum range or distance at which they do less damage because there's nothing to slow them down.
(Actually come to think of it, i believe bullets as we know them couldn't even be fired in space, because there's no oxygen in which their powder can ignite, though rocket launchers would have no trouble firing and we clearly regularly use rockets in space as a species...

Supposedly some of the first astronauts and cosmonauts went to space armed with small rocket launchers because of fears the other side would attack them in zero G, well at least so the urban legend says - that was actually a plot point in one of the Clive Cussler's, Dirk Pitt books :) .

But assuming you could get around that and actually fire them, bullets fired in space should go on forever, unless they hit something solid or come under the influence an objects' gravity :) .)

In this game the limit to a projectile weapon's range should only be the limit of any tracking systems being used, as in gimballed or turreted weapons and the ultimate distance at which your ship can track and target another ship, but if you can see a ship at this game's maximum draw distance and can manually target a shot to hit it, the projectile should still hit them with maximum force.

With lasers since they take energy to fire, it makes sense from them to have a maximum distance, but not for them to hit anything within that distance with any less force.

But of course all this being said, Frontier can make the weapons in this game behave however they like because this is ultimately a work of fiction and their own creation, in which they make all the laws of physics :) .



Most modern guns will fire in space just fine. Modern bullets have their own Oxidizer.
 
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On bullets being fired under water, firstly i think it depends on the design of the gun being used and the bullets themselves...
I've heard of many guns not working if they become too wet or submerged in water, though i THINK i've heard of some capable of working under water, though perhaps they need to be especially designed to potentially be able to, rather than it being a "C r a p shoot" whether they do or not :) ....

At least most of the time if people are intending to shoot under water, they use spear guns, which will definitely work under it, because they rely completely on springs or similar devices to fire.
(While traditional guns often use springs to fire, if they don't use gas canisters instead, they're only being used to strike the bullet with a hammer, the thing which propels them forward is completely the ignition of their incased gun powder.).

But let's say it is possible for a bullet's charge to ignite under water - there's still a fair amount of oxygen in water (of course fish filter oxygen out of water to breath, though if they're in stagnant water or a tank they've filtered all the oxygen out of, they'll start to suffocate :_ ), certainly more than there is in the vacuum of space...

Though if i'm right in thinking bullets need a specific amount of oxygen in the air to fire, it'd be interesting to know how much and will traditional guns and bullets fire at higher and higher points in the atmosphere (or if they'd fire in 100% oxygen, for that matter :) ).

Perhaps if you created special bullets with oxygen cases, they'd fire completely outside the atmosphere, though they might just blow up the gun that fired them instead :) .

You need to check out Mythbusters trying the under water shooting stuff, very good and rather surprising.[yesnod]
 
Most modern guns will fire in space just fine. Modern bullets have their own Oxidizer.

This.

OP needs Chem 100.

2 KNO3 + S + 3C -> K2S + N2 + 3 CO2
(4 KNO3 + C7H4O + 2S -> 2 K2S + 4 CO2 + 3 CO + 2 H20 + 2 N2)

*bang*.................................................pew!
 
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Yea even the focused mod doesn't give that great an increase to the drop off range. It is a bit odd when mc damage drop off on long-range mod is almost as good as the max actual range of modded lasers.

I thought bullets could be fired underwater and so air wasn't a problem (tho more of a hindrance to accuracy, along with gravity... so bullets in space all good) ;)

Focused versus long range. True, long range = no drop off until 6 km, but missing the target happens more and more when the distance grows, and getting 100% of zero is still zero damage. If you're using your lasers for more than shields alone (and most builds use their lasers for hull too) then the AP rate is really important (against medium and large ships at least), that's where focused comes into play. Imho focused is the only engineering that combines 2 powerful advantages: AP + improved damage drop off. And don't tell me to use corrosive mc's to get the hull hardness down, bc that's already a standard if you have small and medium ships against big ones.
 
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