Well i guess i was wrong. The FAS is kinda junky now. And Hull tanking really is dead atm.

Before engineers i could manage Master-Elite Condas and expect to lose 10% Hull and anywhere from 10-20% on the modules that were hit the hardest and like 5-10 on everything else. Nothing a single AFM couldnt manage for at least an hour.

Now, before i even hit below 80% my modules are going haywire causing more damage to themselves and making it increasingly difficult to do anything period without micromanaging the peas and carrots out of everything to simply stay alive much less figfht. My powerplant malfunctioned three times during this whole ordeal which took about 6 minutes to finish. I ended up using jousting tactics since i had a PA and Beams so all of my pips went into engines and my tiny 3C Bi weave shields when id make a pass in such a way to avoid the Condas Huge PA. Now, the Master Conda was using a mix of all the Laser Turrets and i think two Multis. I would make a boosted pass which was only a couple seconds of fire and it would be enough to malfunction my powerplant and 2-3 other modules including thrusters. I finished this one single battle with 56% Hull.

This being said, Hull tanking is useless. Numbers look amazing, but its still useless.
Does the Hull integrity even benefit the modules in any way or is it a completely separate health pool?
Turret lasers which are the weakest variant was enough to reek havoc to my systems. Missiles would completely annihilate this ship if not leave it dead in the water.

With the increased Ai pilot ability Masters and up are now flying like the Elites did and the Elites fly the same just with superior equips. Condas were a challenge in the past to get behind on, but they are acting more like players these days and its turned into a jousting match or circle jerk affair. Its impossible for either party to get behind the other at this point.


Yes, i could drop down a peg and not solo Condas/Cutters/Vettes with an FAS... but the problem is still there, only to a lesser degree. Cant even imagine going into a Low CZ, it would last all of 15 minutes before having to leave considering everything is using Rails, PAs, and/or missiles. And this things cost is essentially equal with an A-Rated FDL.
 
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If you put 5A shields on there you end up in a worse position waiting an entire age for them to regen. I don;t see the FAS as a jouster, I see it as a module sniper that tries to stay in the blind spots of those large ships. I even tried to stow weapons, and avoid all damage during the regen period. Frustrating and you still lose Boosters, Chaff, ect.

HRP's definitely do increase your Hull/Health points. Any Resistances gained on them from Engineer upgrades only affects the Hull, not shields.

I would like to see Integrity increases across the board for all externals. Missiles are finally useful again, I don;t want that to be eliminated, but some durability increases for weapons in particular would do wonders for getting me back in my FAS.
 
Yep. FAS (all hull tanks) are currently in reverse meta territory. I was looking forward to getting new skins for my murderous FAS that worked so well for the longest time and then they came out just as the FAS was made near useless.
 
FAS is agile enough to stay in the blind spot of or fly circles around any big ships, never had problems with elite AI in any ship back when 2.1 was initially released, besides my single experience with a 'Multi-Plasma' which left me dead in 4 seconds.

In fact, besides that one time, I never even lost shields (5A +3 boosters) on it until I tried out Bi-weaves.

My advice would be don't use class 3 Bi-weaves, and go for a shield gen that properly fits the ship, and if you're going to use jousting tactics, switch off FA right before you pass and use the FAS's insane high/low speed turn rate (fastest in the game) to keep your guns trained on your target
 
But to kill an NPC FAS or FGS takes ages not to mention being a real threat (the ones in CZs)... They seem to have really good shields (that comeback pretty quickly) and hull at the same time (you cant have both) as well as modules that never malfunction or quit until it hits 0%.
 
I assume the resistances on engineered shield boosters only help the shield and not the hull.

- - - Updated - - -

But to kill an NPC FAS or FGS takes ages not to mention being a real threat (the ones in CZs)... They seem to have really good shields (that comeback pretty quickly) and hull at the same time (you cant have both) as well as modules that never malfunction or quit until it hits 0%.
I haven't found that the case. I have 2 PAs and 2MCs (non engineered) and subtarget on the big ships.

They seem to come down reasonably quickly. I'd really like to mod my guns and see if it gets better.

That said: getting ganged up on in a CZ is a problem.
 
FAS is agile enough to stay in the blind spot of or fly circles around any big ships, never had problems with elite AI in any ship back when 2.1 was initially released, besides my single experience with a 'Multi-Plasma' which left me dead in 4 seconds.

In fact, besides that one time, I never even lost shields (5A +3 boosters) on it until I tried out Bi-weaves.

My advice would be don't use class 3 Bi-weaves, and go for a shield gen that properly fits the ship, and if you're going to use jousting tactics, switch off FA right before you pass and use the FAS's insane high/low speed turn rate (fastest in the game) to keep your guns trained on your target

If you are gonna spec it like that wouldnt it make more sense to just buy an FDL which has more Firepower and more Utility slots? The whole reason hull tanking had appeal on the FAS is because you could use Energy based weapons almost non stop or utilize more pips in engines and still be able to shoot energy weapons?
 
But to kill an NPC FAS or FGS takes ages not to mention being a real threat (the ones in CZs)... They seem to have really good shields (that comeback pretty quickly) and hull at the same time (you cant have both) as well as modules that never malfunction or quit until it hits 0%.

This is the weird point. It feels like NPC's using different ships than us. My FAS can't do this.
When hit with missiles, my FAS loose instant all hardpoints and utilities to 0% from a burst of 2-3 missiles. NPC FAS' never loose the hardpoints before hull even when spammed with missiles to death

But i have also seen eagles with SCB's......weird, my eagle can't run a SCB in addition to good shields on this small PP :|
 
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If you are gonna spec it like that wouldnt it make more sense to just buy an FDL which has more Firepower and more Utility slots? The whole reason hull tanking had appeal on the FAS is because you could use Energy based weapons almost non stop or utilize more pips in engines and still be able to shoot energy weapons?
I though hull tanking was most fun for silent running; but I hear that was nerfed long ago.
 
I don't want to give the impression that the FAS is useless. I just find I can find what it does, in a seemingly more durable fashion in the Vulture right now. I noticed a change with 2.2, and basically attribute it to missiles. I have become irked by how often I have to dock up and repair compared to ships with s strong shield base. It's a matter of degree, not absolutism. An appropriate boost to the integrity of externals, so they can operate after more than one missile strike, would get me back in the ship pronto.

Right now I am having excellent success in a Vulture, so the FAS will wait for a better day, or my mood changes. It's not like I have ever really been close to destruction in it.

P.S. I have even used two PD's. With the close proximity I am in to my target, the PD's often let them through. Get farther away from a 'Conda, and it can find the room to turn on you, and send even more shield stripping your way. I can't even consider taking on a small wing in an FAS, the ship not directly targeted can ruin your shields in no time.
 
FAS is agile enough to stay in the blind spot of or fly circles around any big ships, never had problems with elite AI in any ship back when 2.1 was initially released, besides my single experience with a 'Multi-Plasma' which left me dead in 4 seconds.

In fact, besides that one time, I never even lost shields (5A +3 boosters) on it until I tried out Bi-weaves.

My advice would be don't use class 3 Bi-weaves, and go for a shield gen that properly fits the ship, and if you're going to use jousting tactics, switch off FA right before you pass and use the FAS's insane high/low speed turn rate (fastest in the game) to keep your guns trained on your target

Do you have the ability to record gameplay? If so would you please demonstrate your amazing computer like skillz.
 
I though hull tanking was most fun for silent running; but I hear that was nerfed long ago.


Silent Running has no effect on NPC's. I don;t specifically Hull Tank, or more to the point go shieldless. I use the Hybrid approach. A Bi-Weave shield, and Hull points together. Like the idea of Effective Health. The shields hold up to most ships, but from a iClipper on up your at risk of loosing your externals. My Hull sticks around, it's the weapons getting torched that sends you home, that's my issue.
 
Could you share your load out? I don't have any trouble surviving in CZs or killing Anacondas in my Viper.

Congratulations?
Not talking about Vipers...

But to humour you.

2 Medium Pulses, 1 Large Beam, and one Large PA all fixed.

Utility is 2 Heatsinks, ECM, and a KW.

Core, all A class except Life Support at D.
Optionals, all Hull Renforces except a C3 Biweave and C2 AFM iirc. Military plating.
 
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FAS is agile enough to stay in the blind spot of or fly circles around any big ships, never had problems with elite AI in any ship back when 2.1 was initially released, besides my single experience with a 'Multi-Plasma' which left me dead in 4 seconds.

In fact, besides that one time, I never even lost shields (5A +3 boosters) on it until I tried out Bi-weaves.

My advice would be don't use class 3 Bi-weaves, and go for a shield gen that properly fits the ship, and if you're going to use jousting tactics, switch off FA right before you pass and use the FAS's insane high/low speed turn rate (fastest in the game) to keep your guns trained on your target

All true. One vs one against NPCs it's still viable and that without any engineering, but it is hardly a "tank" anymore. You have to absolutely rely on hit avoidance for it to perform. Trouble is it's been hit from several sides at once. Emissive amo negates all stealth builds hard. Modules are far more vulnerable than they used to be and soon as you are being hit there's a real chance of catastrophic malfunctions leaving you a sitting duck and corrosive ammo will just flat out churn all that hull into butter. It is now practically a downgrade from the Vulture. I'd say a lot of its troubles might go away if there were a module protective armour upgrade via engineers to deflect some of the module damage to hull instead (and that only if there's a change to how emissive and corrosive currently function).
 
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Interesting thread - I currently mothballed mine, but I thought about engineering mine to an all armour tank with 4 PDs, all G5 heavy duty booster modded hull reinforcements, military armour, shielded/reinforced B internals and all sturdy mount MCs to see if armour tanking still is remotely viable under optimal conditions (I doubt it tbh).

Did anyone try that before? Would save me the hassle.
 
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