What combat balances are proposed?

I'd like to see
  1. Boosters deleted entirely, replaced with engineering voucher tickets.
  2. only one HRP can be used at a time, and only if no shield.
  3. Base shield buffed to balance.
  4. Hull and HRP buffed to balance.
  5. Hull, HRP, and shield mods reconfigured to be more horizontal in stats.
  6. One MRP limit, with buffed module integrities across the board, or nerfed penetration/seeker module damage.
  7. Emissive removed, replaced with thermal cascade, and thermal cascade increases accuity of target by what's effective to +15% heat, even during silent.
  8. Dumbfires to have minimum arming time, long enough for PD to do something.
  9. Plasma set to thermal damage only, and buffed 40%
  10. Cannons buffed 30%
  11. Make the burst laser exactly like the rail gun, merge all existing railguns to the burst, with slightly more damage, less dps, less efficiency, and get rid of the original not-very-compatible-with-engineering-mods-tripple-hit-burst laser.
  12. Reinvent the railgun to be a projectile weapon, has projectile velocity of 3km/s, inflicts explosive damage (like a real rail gun and not this fony theExpanse hole maker nonsense), and has a highly efficient ammo stock due to not requiring charge packed rounds, but costs a lot more cap to fire.
  13. Make all ships top speed 1000 m/s, where they differentiate only by acceleration, and their acceleration tapers off linearly beginning at their current top boost speed - to reduce the effectiveness of reverski, enhance kiting, chasing, the general enjoyment of going fast, and all without negatively affecting joust.
  14. Ships that have trash speed and firepower to have greatly enhanced shielding, hull, module protection, or all of the above.
  15. All ships medium, or larger, chosen to have enhanced offensive and defensive capability, to have slightly reduced maneuverability and/or turn rates.
  16. Light fighters to have significantly lower boost cost and boost cool-down, possibly even an extra pair of small weapons, and not just for the asp scout.
Actually who am I kidding. I could write a book about all that inhibits this game's shine, but there's already been far more than a book's worth of explanation and discussion archived in history without there ever being any indication the current mess is anything other than worshiped as sacred.
Frankly, it sounds like you've just designed an entirely different game.

TRY to be reasonable in your proposed changes. We're expecting TWEAKS, not massive overhauls of the ENTIRE combat system.
 
Here's a few things I'd like to see.

1. Rails really do need to be rebalanced somehow. Right now they're basically superior to laser weapons in every way. Better range, better DPE, better module damage, better DPS. Their only real downside is their heat generation, but that can be managed pretty dang easily via thermal vent lasers. Maybe lower their Breach Chance a lot? They should be good at killing modules, yes, but not instantly when the shields go down. Make them have to pound a few holes in the hull first. On top of that, maybe change their damage type to pure kinetic, to make lasers better at taking down shields. Those two changes might make them more balanced than right now.

2. Remove Module Reinforcements, nobody likes having to use them; instead, change the E-Grade Hull Reinforcements to still give their current bonuses AND the current D-grade module reinforcement values as well. Nobody uses E-Grade HRPs and nobody LIKES using MRPs, so combine them and cut the annoyance in half.

3. Dramatically increase Torpedo damage. They have very limited ammo, but they should still be doing around the same ballpark of damage from other types of weapons. A class 1 multicannon does a total of 2420 damage; change Torpedoes so they do 1500 damage instead of the current 120, and they'd be really truly scary, and not just for the Reverb Cascade effect. And they'd be in the same ballpark as other weapons.

4. Add some new Engineering effects for AFMUs and Repair Limpet Controllers, to make them more interesting and fun to play with in a combat setting. For example:


AFMU

Distributed Repairs: -33% repair speed, AFMU can repair multiple modules simultaneously.

Auto-Servos: AFMU constantly repairs a tiny amount of any damaged modules at no cost.

Weapons-Focused: AFMU repairs retracted weapons automatically and extremely rapidly(+400%). Repair times on all other modules increased by 50%.


Repair Limpet Controller

Active Repairs: The Damage Threshold for repairs to be cancelled is increased by 400%. -10% repair capacity. (you have to be hit four times instead of one for the repair to cancel)

Spot Welding: +50% Repair Speed. Active Limpets generate significant heat while active.

Vacuum Welding: +10% Repair Speed. Active Limpets absorb some heat while active.

5. Slightly buff the Rapid Fire effect for burst and pulse lasers, potentially by giving it a slight increase to minimum range. Right now it's strictly inferior to Short Range in terms of damage, and to an Efficient Beam Laser in terms of DPE AND Damage.

I could list quite a few more, but this would be a neat start.
 
You totally can. Small ships are supremely maneuverable, while large ships...aren't.

I've killed every type of large ship in my sidewinder. It's not terribly efficient, but that's what you get for trying to drive in a nail with a balloon.
Speaking of, buff Captial ships
 
I'd like to see
  1. Boosters deleted entirely, replaced with engineering voucher tickets.
  2. only one HRP can be used at a time, and only if no shield.
  3. Base shield buffed to balance.
  4. Hull and HRP buffed to balance.
  5. Hull, HRP, and shield mods reconfigured to be more horizontal in stats.
  6. One MRP limit, with buffed module integrities across the board, or nerfed penetration/seeker module damage.
  7. Emissive removed, replaced with thermal cascade, and thermal cascade increases accuity of target by what's effective to +15% heat, even during silent.
  8. Dumbfires to have minimum arming time, long enough for PD to do something.
  9. Plasma set to thermal damage only, and buffed 40%
  10. Cannons buffed 30%
  11. Make the burst laser exactly like the rail gun, merge all existing railguns to the burst, with slightly more damage, less dps, less efficiency, and get rid of the original not-very-compatible-with-engineering-mods-tripple-hit-burst laser.
  12. Reinvent the railgun to be a projectile weapon, has projectile velocity of 3km/s, inflicts explosive damage (like a real rail gun and not this fony theExpanse hole maker nonsense), and has a highly efficient ammo stock due to not requiring charge packed rounds, but costs a lot more cap to fire.
  13. Make all ships top speed 1000 m/s, where they differentiate only by acceleration, and their acceleration tapers off linearly beginning at their current top boost speed - to reduce the effectiveness of reverski, enhance kiting, chasing, the general enjoyment of going fast, and all without negatively affecting joust.
  14. Ships that have trash speed and firepower to have greatly enhanced shielding, hull, module protection, or all of the above.
  15. All ships medium, or larger, chosen to have enhanced offensive and defensive capability, to have slightly reduced maneuverability and/or turn rates.
  16. Light fighters to have significantly lower boost cost and boost cool-down, possibly even an extra pair of small weapons, and not just for the asp scout.
Actually who am I kidding. I could write a book about all that inhibits this game's shine, but there's already been far more than a book's worth of explanation and discussion archived in history without there ever being any indication the current mess is anything other than worshiped as sacred.

If only we could get an open Beta with such to test and try out
 
You totally can. Small ships are supremely maneuverable, while large ships...aren't.

I've killed every type of large ship in my sidewinder. It's not terribly efficient, but that's what you get for trying to drive in a nail with a balloon.
In PvE, yes. I've done this.

In PvP, it's pretty much accepted that a small ship is just fodder, unless it's a Vulture. At least, that's the understanding I get. (Still a PvP noob)
 
You technically can beat Medium ship with Small one (in PVP, because in PVE with engineering everything is possible), but firepower difference is enormous, say, between Eagle and Krait II. Other pilots either has to make so terrible mistakes during combat or have very wrong loadout for the job.
 
You technically can beat Medium ship with Small one (in PVP, because in PVE with engineering everything is possible), but firepower difference is enormous, say, between Eagle and Krait II. Other pilots either has to make so terrible mistakes during combat or have very wrong loadout for the job.
Small ships actually do have their own share of advantages. Many of the most proportionately powerful weapons go in small slots. At the same time, most of the meta PVP weapons are fixed, which can make hitting smaller, more maneuverable ships very difficult.

The vulture is a fun ship, no doubt about it, but I'd hesitate to call it the best small ship; not when class 2 railguns can do more DPS with better DPE at better range than class 3 lasers. And, on top of it all, ignore armor hardness besides.

A properly built and engineered small ship can be an extremely irritating opponent. The only real problem they have is the fact that you will run out of ammo in about 5 minutes. I really wish you could call up your NPC at a neighboring station, and have them deliver you ammo reloads. It would make flying small ships a whole lot more convenient.
 
It's just going to be a credit rebalance. No more 300,000 bounties for dangerous npc's.
Cr 300,000? Luxury. I just finished off a "Weapons fire" USS; Dangerous Anaconda and a Deadly Viper III, 3 and two ranks above me. Total bounty Cr 2,800. They fought poorly too.
 
Frankly, it sounds like you've just designed an entirely different game.

TRY to be reasonable in your proposed changes. We're expecting TWEAKS, not massive overhauls of the ENTIRE combat system.
No, I've proposed a good start towards a game. What we have now, is more of a randomized unbalanced sandbox. No small tweak is going to get you far here. In fact, there isn't much you can tweak without further imbalancing something else. If Frontier ever feels they want to start seeing vast improvements to their ratings, sales, and retention, they're going to have to flip the table to some degree.
 
Small ships should be a threat to bigger ships at all times. The food chain is more or less upside down compared to real combat right now.

But at that point it is what it is. Combat would be much more dynamic with less tanking and bullet sponges. I think that most weapons lack hitting power.

But frankly just a bit more credits for combat and better black market prices would do a lot to liven things up. Or maybe provide escort services for people scared of being ganked?
RIght now small things have the advantage. Historically that often hasn't been the case, so who knows well over a millenium in the future?

The problem with small vs large is that the idea behind small combat ships seems to be that the large vessels won't be able to handle the numbers rather than one on one, but the game doesn't work itself towards playing like that - it's much, much easier to get a single powerful combat ship than a swarm of smaller ones, especially since for experienced playes price doesn't matter, unlike reality. The grind to engineer them all matters though.

But as for the Cutter example, a wing of combat-dedicated FDLs should be able to take on a tanky slug really, although if it's 1 v 1 the Cutter should be able to escape.

Escorts would be a nice idea all round I think, well, except that everyone could take them and it would just shove up the baseline and make no real net difference - a quite literal arms race.
 
Will these be limited to payouts and missions boards, or will we see some weapons looked at again?

Personally, I would like to see big ships capable of holding their own better when facing squads of FDL gankers. A single railgun on one of these ships can nullify your chance of regaining shield and the base shield itself doesn't stand a chance of holding up too long against a barrage of plasma from a pack of these ships. I'd like to see railguns with cascade effect changed to only reducing half of the scb's worth per cell. And that is the maximum I would allow, personally. The size of the hit box, especially in a Cutter, makes it near impossible to avoid being struck by these. And although I'm fully engineered, it really doesn't feel that safe out there when facing these kinds of foe.

What are your thoughts on this? I know that fighting 1v1 against a big ship, the railguns were supposed to benefit these players. But in my opinion, they are a bit OP against shield cell banks and need toning down.
The FDL is a ship designed for Bounty Hunters. Solo pilots who take down the biggest marks. In Elite the biggest baddest pirate lords fly Anacondas. They have done since the very start.

Thus the FDL is a ship DESIGNED to solo a big ship. That's it's entire job.

And you want to be able to fight off a group of them? If anything the FDL needs to be nerfed from the other direction, it need's to be weaker against the light fighters you SHOULD have escorting you. (that's not your fault, FD has done very little to make escorting a viable job).

I like to compare Elite to WW2 pacific combat. The big ships are equivilent to Navel ships, needed to take ground because of their transport and barrage capacity. FDL's are Torpedo Bombers, able to punch above their price and destroy navel ships. And fighters are fighters, necessary to defend against torpedo bombers.
 
In PvE, yes. I've done this.

In PvP, it's pretty much accepted that a small ship is just fodder, unless it's a Vulture. At least, that's the understanding I get. (Still a PvP noob)
Long time PVP Light fighter pilot here. The Vulture and the Imp Courier are generally considered the main worthwhile fighters. However the other fighters are laugable by comparison. I had a thread breaking it down a while back... I'm not sure if it still exists.

The TLDR: Eagle, Viper3, I Eagle, are only somewhat cheaper than a I Courier AFTER outfitting but are far worse. They could use a buff.
The Viper 4 and the DBS have the same relationship with the Vulture. Only a bit cheaper, miles worse. The DBS has hella jump range though, so I guess that would be a valid tradeoff... if jump range was ever needed on a combat ship.
 
The FDL is a ship designed for Bounty Hunters. Solo pilots who take down the biggest marks. In Elite the biggest baddest pirate lords fly Anacondas. They have done since the very start.

Thus the FDL is a ship DESIGNED to solo a big ship. That's it's entire job.

And you want to be able to fight off a group of them? If anything the FDL needs to be nerfed from the other direction, it need's to be weaker against the light fighters you SHOULD have escorting you. (that's not your fault, FD has done very little to make escorting a viable job).

I like to compare Elite to WW2 pacific combat. The big ships are equivilent to Navel ships, needed to take ground because of their transport and barrage capacity. FDL's are Torpedo Bombers, able to punch above their price and destroy navel ships. And fighters are fighters, necessary to defend against torpedo bombers.
Heard this before. Has nothing to do with my point on feedback rails being OP.
 
The minimum for me would be:

1 tweak would be to revert the FdL back to its old heat profile. I'd like its PP reverted too but thats harder to implement.

2 would be really lowering the Anacondas hardness down to almost tinfoil. At least then it would reflect the massive advantages it gets elsewhere.

3 would be making shields and boosters consume much more power (at least double). That way, weaponless traders can keep good shields but combat ships with power hungry guns need to choose more.
 
Heard this before. Has nothing to do with my point on feedback rails being OP.
They aren't? If anything it's SCBs where the issues lie. If they wern't so damn strong in the first place than the weapon that counters them wouldn't seem so strong.

The original design of the game had players losing and regaining their shields on a regular basis. That's why module damage exists, to add interesting game play challenges as a result of battle damage. This reliance on shields being the be all end all of most combat has really held the depth of combat back.
 
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