What ED is lacking, and players mean by a lack of content. (YouTube video)
- Thread starter SentineI
- Start date
Let me guess, capital ships are two ranks up now and it is double the missions to get theese ranks now while missions pay only half and you get them only once a week?
Its all good points, but many seems to forget the scale of E.D. Its 400 billion star systems and something need to be randomized and procedural to make it work. But he is spot on when he lists cohesion, agency and persistence. If you can make these reward you. You have a great game. If there can be a "server" which deals with persistence, agency and cohesion for the individual commander in solo or open. This would add to game play and add to the existing content. But Frontier is working on the game and will add more and more of these 3 ingredients. I have faith and is a big fan of the game, and will continue to be. It just needs time. We know from the latest Dev update that some sort of persistence will come with mission avatars and the engineers. And agency will come with crafting, we already have some with synthesizing. Cohesion is coming together as commanders can interact with the game world and actually change ownership of systems in power play. And change influence of minor factions in systems. And even spread these out to other systems.
What I think commanders want and feel is lacking is NPC interaction and persistence. Adding something like NPC wingmen or some sort of interaction with NPC mission givers, and make them come alive in their own ship and fly with you. And see them develop and have a bond to you will greatly enhance game play and immersion. I think Frontier is working on this with avatars and crafting.
But remember this. We have a 400 billion star persistent galaxy and Frontier has just begun to fill it with content/variations. Even the craters and canyons on the planets ARE persistent. (Some seem to have forgotten this) So if Frontier can make a PLANET persistent, they can also make a "tiny" NPC persistent. Think about that before you are to critical.
But I agree that Frontier must balance the need/demand for adding new content with the need for adding cohesion, agency and persistence to the already existing content in the game. Going to make this line stand out. Because I think this is what is important for this game.
Adding some persistence to NPCs along with crafting and being able to build something simple in the start would fulfill these needs along with "polishing" and getting rid of bugs.
What I think commanders want and feel is lacking is NPC interaction and persistence. Adding something like NPC wingmen or some sort of interaction with NPC mission givers, and make them come alive in their own ship and fly with you. And see them develop and have a bond to you will greatly enhance game play and immersion. I think Frontier is working on this with avatars and crafting.
But remember this. We have a 400 billion star persistent galaxy and Frontier has just begun to fill it with content/variations. Even the craters and canyons on the planets ARE persistent. (Some seem to have forgotten this) So if Frontier can make a PLANET persistent, they can also make a "tiny" NPC persistent. Think about that before you are to critical.
But I agree that Frontier must balance the need/demand for adding new content with the need for adding cohesion, agency and persistence to the already existing content in the game. Going to make this line stand out. Because I think this is what is important for this game.
Adding some persistence to NPCs along with crafting and being able to build something simple in the start would fulfill these needs along with "polishing" and getting rid of bugs.
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400 billion stars is the galaxy, the bubble is rather big yes but that does not mean persitence is hard to archieve.
Kill a number of pirates in an systhem and the respawn dries out for some time, do it all around that systhem and pirate activity is down for a few weeks there (they go to safer places, logical?)
Make small pirate stations players can blow up and for some weeks there is less activity, all things doable without much problem there.
There are many things where players do influenze the game world that are not "handmade" and do allow for interaction with the game world.
Same with missions, kill an pirate leader and activity lowers in an area.
All example with npc pirate activity only
Kill a number of pirates in an systhem and the respawn dries out for some time, do it all around that systhem and pirate activity is down for a few weeks there (they go to safer places, logical?)
Make small pirate stations players can blow up and for some weeks there is less activity, all things doable without much problem there.
There are many things where players do influenze the game world that are not "handmade" and do allow for interaction with the game world.
Same with missions, kill an pirate leader and activity lowers in an area.
All example with npc pirate activity only
Nice Vid, the term living breathing universe is what FD should be aspiring to and the three areas you mention are a great way to go forward..
The big problem is FD set this game up cheaply so due to instancing much won't be able to be achieved.
One other area FD need to improve on is the amount of sameness in the galaxy. The interior of space stations in a classic example (well it is the same place just a different instance) they are all the same. Every time I mention this someone like to use the "well airport all look the same" argument but do they all look exactly the same?? No they don't. You can tell that you are at a different airport.
Again we have different types of start stations which are involve in different industries such as agricultural, refinery, mining etc why don't they look any different when you dock?? They have totally different purposes yet look exactly the same..
Same again for the ownership of the star base. Other than the greeting at the from everything is exactly the same.. All across the galaxy everyone uses the same design?? We don't even do that on Earth but in the galaxy we do??
This really is a small thing that is easily fixed as the space station is just another instance. What was mentioned in the vid some of which will be far harder (and lets be honest less profitable)..
The big problem is FD set this game up cheaply so due to instancing much won't be able to be achieved.
One other area FD need to improve on is the amount of sameness in the galaxy. The interior of space stations in a classic example (well it is the same place just a different instance) they are all the same. Every time I mention this someone like to use the "well airport all look the same" argument but do they all look exactly the same?? No they don't. You can tell that you are at a different airport.
Again we have different types of start stations which are involve in different industries such as agricultural, refinery, mining etc why don't they look any different when you dock?? They have totally different purposes yet look exactly the same..
Same again for the ownership of the star base. Other than the greeting at the from everything is exactly the same.. All across the galaxy everyone uses the same design?? We don't even do that on Earth but in the galaxy we do??
This really is a small thing that is easily fixed as the space station is just another instance. What was mentioned in the vid some of which will be far harder (and lets be honest less profitable)..
X-Terminator
Banned
+1 and...
I believe Combat Logging causes Server Issues due to not being able to update between Game Servers and player's system. I'm sure it crashes it too. Therefore it should never happen.
So why do players do it?
= Because they will lose credits!
Simple solution then is PvP will NOT lose credits after destruction.
It keeps the Winner happy and the loser happier than before.
But they should surely lose something? If so then you got Combat Logging all over again!
I believe Combat Logging causes Server Issues due to not being able to update between Game Servers and player's system. I'm sure it crashes it too. Therefore it should never happen.
So why do players do it?
= Because they will lose credits!
Simple solution then is PvP will NOT lose credits after destruction.
It keeps the Winner happy and the loser happier than before.
But they should surely lose something? If so then you got Combat Logging all over again!
It all has been so obvious for so long...the only suspension of belief is mine where I keep telling friends that the next update from Frontier is going to resolve these issues. These issues that has turned them away to other games and left me with $400 invested in a game all alone that started out as a gang of buddies most excitement we have had since the early WoW expansions.
Thanks to everyone for adding their agreements to this post and keeping things cordial, professional and hopefully enticing enough for Frontier leadership to pay attention to.
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Frontier has awesomely succeeded in making a HUGE game modeled after our HUGE galaxy. How much fun would it be if there were SERVERS with different experiences to be had instead of all just ONE LARGE SERVER yet instanced?
What I mean by that is this in a bullet point nutshell:
Again, this galaxy is so crazy large you can do these things and ALLOW them to change the model of THAT PARTICULAR SERVER without breaking the game for anyone not wanting to participate there.
Instead of playing in SOLO all the time, I can find a SERVER that holds a Galaxy of promise for me. An Immigrant feel of going there to MAKE something of myself where I wasn't able to before in another server. Not to mention how much fun it would be hear about a NEW SERVER starting and joining it IN THE BEGINNING! I would have a chance to ROLL another Elite Commander with a completely different focus and emphasis in this NEW galaxy, this galaxy that is unshaped by other player interactions and I can start out there on equal footing with others.
I really do get sad thinking how awesome of a game that would be for me...this sweet Elite gameplay, ship flying mechanics I am loving combined with a PERSISTENT, moldable Galaxy that I can help shape. sigh...if only.
Thanks to everyone for adding their agreements to this post and keeping things cordial, professional and hopefully enticing enough for Frontier leadership to pay attention to.
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Frontier has awesomely succeeded in making a HUGE game modeled after our HUGE galaxy. How much fun would it be if there were SERVERS with different experiences to be had instead of all just ONE LARGE SERVER yet instanced?
What I mean by that is this in a bullet point nutshell:
- Persistent changes based on players
- HOMES
- In WoW people always wanted a home. But Blizzard couldn't possibly fit homes in the map of Azeroth. It would have been MAYHEM!
- But in elite, there is SOOO much INFINITE space in each Star System that homes could not only exist, but be quite large based on the effort, time and work done upgrading it by the player.
- I get sad thinking how much cooler this game would be for me if all my progress went into building my home -> into a station -> into a settlement for others -> and finally into a city
- Factions exist in the solar system that players named
- Motivations to build up the solar system around your home for economy and tech to your preference
- economy mini-game against other players thriving factions/cities
- guild like experience where you group up in a system you deem "home" and everyone seeds their home->City building there
- FACTIONS, POWERS etc. gone or strengthened PERMANENTLY
- Being such a large galaxy it wouldn't affect the game for others, not ruining at least. Plus there are other servers you can play on where X hasn't happened.
- TECHNOLOGY
- Progress in technology based on players building and supporting science vessels, planetary investigation, Astrophysical studies of the unpopulated galaxy
- Imagine if explorers were not soloists but Commanders of science vessels on mission to Sagittarius A? Imagine the missions and content on the WAY THERE and the motivation to take the time to GET there that would change!
- Players arrive at Sag A and remain there depending on how long they help the vessel succeed with fuel, food and other life support needs
- This kind of science work they do for the "Nation"/"Faction" they are working for would bring necessary technological advancements. Bonuses, Ships, Modules, abilities that OTHER factions may or may not have yet!
- HOMES
Again, this galaxy is so crazy large you can do these things and ALLOW them to change the model of THAT PARTICULAR SERVER without breaking the game for anyone not wanting to participate there.
Instead of playing in SOLO all the time, I can find a SERVER that holds a Galaxy of promise for me. An Immigrant feel of going there to MAKE something of myself where I wasn't able to before in another server. Not to mention how much fun it would be hear about a NEW SERVER starting and joining it IN THE BEGINNING! I would have a chance to ROLL another Elite Commander with a completely different focus and emphasis in this NEW galaxy, this galaxy that is unshaped by other player interactions and I can start out there on equal footing with others.
I really do get sad thinking how awesome of a game that would be for me...this sweet Elite gameplay, ship flying mechanics I am loving combined with a PERSISTENT, moldable Galaxy that I can help shape. sigh...if only.
The video was great. It explained politely and precisely many of the reasons why I don't play the game anymore.
I've logged hundreds of hours when I first got it. These forums are still on my bookmarks bar, and I keep checking them once a week to see if there are any reasons for me to come back or buy the expansion. I reaaaaaaaaaally wanted to like this game, I still do. Puzzling design decisions though. In the end I might just have to accept that it'll never be for me. FD seem to keep adding functionalities without content
I've logged hundreds of hours when I first got it. These forums are still on my bookmarks bar, and I keep checking them once a week to see if there are any reasons for me to come back or buy the expansion. I reaaaaaaaaaally wanted to like this game, I still do. Puzzling design decisions though. In the end I might just have to accept that it'll never be for me. FD seem to keep adding functionalities without content
This video fluently describes all my issues with Elite Dangerous. Also why a good many of my friends that started playing ED with me, have moved on to other games and express little to no interest in the "season pass" expansion. A simple looting mechanic, the chance for super rare drops or gear/equipment finds would breath so much life into many of the shallow mundane activities plaguing this game. Take a page out of eve online's book: Killing a pirate as part of a mission will not only yield... (1.) mission rewards but also (2.) the bounty on said named pirate/enemy, (3.) possible cargo/gear loot and if you have the skills and equipment... (4.) salvaging the wreck. These materials then can be equipped, sold or used in crafting.
I also completely agree with your statements in regards to the NPC adhering to the same game mechanics/rules as the player. However given the foundation that ED's NPC and missions work on.... I don't see that change ever happening without a major overhaul to the game and we know that's never going to happen. I can only hope that the Devs take VS Terminus constructive criticisms into account and try building anew rather then hoping the duct tape will hold for years to come. Deeper boys, not wider!
I also completely agree with your statements in regards to the NPC adhering to the same game mechanics/rules as the player. However given the foundation that ED's NPC and missions work on.... I don't see that change ever happening without a major overhaul to the game and we know that's never going to happen. I can only hope that the Devs take VS Terminus constructive criticisms into account and try building anew rather then hoping the duct tape will hold for years to come. Deeper boys, not wider!
I would suggest that reducing pirates in one system should increase them in other near-by systems. That would ensure players never run out of pirates to shoot at, but still allows them to have some effect on the galaxy.
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That's not technically true. Different stations have differently coloured lighting inside... (At least that used to be true, and assume it still is. I've barely docked at space stations since Horizons, prefering to land at surface ports.)
There IS also more than one type of space-station interior (remember the brightly-lit one with palm trees?), but they aren't very common.
Certainly more should be done.
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Lucky that Season 2 will include a Looting & Crafting update then
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The video was great. It explained politely and precisely many of the reasons why I don't play the game anymore.
I've logged hundreds of hours when I first got it. These forums are still on my bookmarks bar, and I keep checking them once a week to see if there are any reasons for me to come back or buy the expansion. I reaaaaaaaaaally wanted to like this game, I still do. Puzzling design decisions though. In the end I might just have to accept that it'll never be for me. FD seem to keep adding functionalities without content
Could you move over just a little ?
We clearly are in the same boat, and it's getting a bit crowded in here.
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I think these are all fine ideas, but I think in reality the best case scenario for a, c and d is that it doubles the depth to "a mile wide and two inches deep". You'd get a few hours of extra juice, but the repetition would very soon start to bite again.
(b) is by far the most exciting. The ships already have a bunch of depth, so doubling down on that with more unique loadouts would add a lot more than investing in a mission system that's always going to have to be relatively shallow in a universe this size.
Not that I think they shouldn't also do the mission changes, it's just that I doubt they would add as much depth as a lot of people calling for them seem to be imagining.
+over 9000
Absolutely true what he says and I admire the calmness and collectedness of the explaining person. All of this feels kind of obvious and naturals to me and maybe a lot of the people arguing here, and that makes it so hard to talk about it. Its like trying to explain to someone the color red.
However it just isn't obvious. Not to someone who plays for 20 minutes on a sunday and is just happy experiencing basic functions. For people like me (us) who burn through content quickly, we definitely need the agency. We also dock a thousand times a day, and while the view manages to remain exciting for quite some time, it loses its "magic" at some point, just as every other feature, as long their is no cohesion.
Also backed by basic game design principals.
Also, makes it painfully obvious how ED isn't even remotely what was promised. As this agency, this persistence, is the big thing they've been promising from the beginning.
Absolutely true what he says and I admire the calmness and collectedness of the explaining person. All of this feels kind of obvious and naturals to me and maybe a lot of the people arguing here, and that makes it so hard to talk about it. Its like trying to explain to someone the color red.
However it just isn't obvious. Not to someone who plays for 20 minutes on a sunday and is just happy experiencing basic functions. For people like me (us) who burn through content quickly, we definitely need the agency. We also dock a thousand times a day, and while the view manages to remain exciting for quite some time, it loses its "magic" at some point, just as every other feature, as long their is no cohesion.
Also backed by basic game design principals.
Also, makes it painfully obvious how ED isn't even remotely what was promised. As this agency, this persistence, is the big thing they've been promising from the beginning.
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Those were only HALF of my proposed fix. You really need to read my original post, but in essence I felt ED needed two kinds of things adding, and when combined they would help your journey in ED feel like an interesting & meaningful story that was unique to you. Rather than (as it currently is) just repeating the same actions over & over, without changing anything much except your bank balance.
Maybe Frontier should take some lessons from Bethesda, they are champ at adding little pointless things to there games that amuse even at the thrid time you replay it.
Given how "simple" Skyrim is compared to ED that says a lot.
Because i would never restart ED a second time starting from scratch, there is little fun in that.
With Skyrim over and over.
Given how "simple" Skyrim is compared to ED that says a lot.
Because i would never restart ED a second time starting from scratch, there is little fun in that.
With Skyrim over and over.