What EVE is and what ED could one day be ( community-wise )

[JeffRyan]

The point I was trying to make was that in the documentary linked in the OP people said that "Incarna failed". I do not want to see ED fail in the same way. I am quite happy to see avatars that add to the gaming experience, beyond mere "eye candy". Incarna did not add to the gameplay according to the Eve Community being shown in the documentary.
I want to see planetary landings, ship boardings, walking around space stations implemented in ED. I do not want much of what Eve appears to offer, hence my taking part here as a premium Beta Backer
Sorry if my earlier post confused peope.

Incarna's first block the Captain's Quarters was basically a technology test, a lot more was to come. But it was because of the hijacking of it via Monoclegate, which was a different issue. And I was there when it happened.

 

[Blinde]

Incarna's first block the Captain's Quarters was basically a technology test, a lot more was to come. But it was because of the hijacking of it via Monoclegate, which was a different issue. And I was there when it happened.

It also literally killed some people's video cards through overheating; was the third attempt at writing their own avatar system (instead of licensing UT or similar, which they later did for Dust 514) and still didn't let you have more than one character on screen, nor could you leave your one room captains quarters. If it was a technology test, then making it compulsory was a bad decision.

Why did they release it then? A lot of people felt like they'd not made a fuss about CCP spending 18 months working on Incarna because they'd been promised something cool.

Personally, I was looking forward to being able to have avatars outside ships. The Incarna thing they showed was pretty terrible. It looked pretty, as long as the character stood still, but it was a long way from the pubs and establishments people thought they'd be getting.

So all the people who'd been saying "it'll be great, just trust CCP were feeling a bit ripped off, and the people who just wanted spaceships were also feeling a bit ripped off, and I could see that either CCP were going to have to spend a lot more time on it, or they were going to give up. Either way, it was badly delivered, and CCP were indeed out manoeuvred by the people who wanted more spaceships and were ready to agitate to get them.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Okay, let's get something straight, the reason the above was dropped was because a rather vocal meta game / PvP element of the player base that rallied to destroy its implementation. The whole thing was about making the "player" more than just being a ship. Basically allowing the players deeper RP and a stronger connection to their actual characters.

Of course, the multi-toon / meta gaming / strict PvP brigade hated this and set out to destroy it (which they did). And it didn't help that some of the devs were also in some of the mega nullsec corps either. The devs that we're pushing for this where trying to rekindle the early days story and RP of the game, their attempt to do so was destroyed, from within and out.

Now, would you like to see the same thing happen here when it comes to planetary landing? Walking around ships/station ect ect would that also be a big no thank you? If so, explain that to this community please.

Thankyou PacalB,

I can't give you more rep at the moment, but the events you describe above and not the metagaming revisionist history being peddled on these boards were the real turning point in Eve's history and ultimately will be CCP's undoing IMHO, unless they radically change business model.

I urge people who have not seen them to go look for the Fanfest keynote speeches from Torfi Frans Olafsson (say hi if you're here and reading ), which show that ambulation was not just walking around your crew quarters, but had much, much more. The big "PvP" alliances saw this as a threat to their narrow definition of a sandpit and had it killed off, much as some threads here are already starting to try to do, which is short-sighted and I predict within 6-12 months of a competitor (E-D) being released will turn EVE into a MMO wasteland.

Afterall, what are the PvP brigade going to do when nobody is stocking the logistics chain for them and they are paying a monthly sub for an empty experience?

Migrating to E-D is a possibility, but only if certain core mechanics get changed to make it worthwhile i.e. carebears to do your bidding, subs so you can hold leverage over FDEV and travel/trade/resource chokepoints to monopolise (best of luck overcoming the netcode/travel stuff ).

The expansion of E-D into other types of gameplay apart from a RTS/"Quake in Space" game is what will keep E-D fresh and open it up to a larger audience.

 

[NoirWolf]

Revisionist history? I was one of the Amarr protest leaders and the only agenda people cared about was spaceships first, Barbie dolls second. But you and Pacal seem to have an agenda as well which is amusing considering it classes as forum meta but besides the point.

The Monoclegate killed the notion that CCP was an allmighty god in their game that knew everything and considering how ****** off people wishing EVE would die currently are I say it is a good thing.

Oh and ambulation is still a thing, back burner yes but still there the only thing that got truly axed was in atmosphere flight in 2010 I think as it was just too much work considering the payout.

Etc.

 

[timbow]

i don't think ED can even come close to eve:
- backbone in ED are gamers from the past that played original elite and they have different definition of fun than kids nowadays;
- ED is too complex as it requires mastering flying and actually requires to fly your ship that can be frustrating at the beginning and while it is pretty simple overall we already see many threads that ED is too complicated so young non simmers will just go to other games where you can chase the mouse or buy bigger ships;
- in ED NPC will be majority;
- players will and can play privated, ungrouped, single player, ignored, ironmaned, meaning while universe is one we will have multiple dimensions of it that will never overlap;
- instancing, even if the guild wants to take something over then a group (max_per_instance/2) of really good players can take out hundreds of enemies easily - imagine 300 spartans - as they will always battle same amount of enemies every time.
edit-yeah, also try to do things in 150 000 known systems and 400 billion total, it's insanely large and explorers will not encounter anyone for months or maybe even years of real life time

also FD are showing very right attitude, unlike other game development, and they are really creating the game for themselves and that's not mainstream at all and this makes ED even more the game i want to play

^
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THIS!

Also, why do we have to be the Eve community or learn from them? ED is its own game, many of us have not even played Eve and how no desire to become Eve 2.0. I want the ED community to develop its own personality, I want Elite Dangerous to be the game I played back in 1984 with knobs on, i.e. the space trading, pirating, pew pew if I wish, with an open universe where the number of rules and laws are limited to the faction systems.

If you want Eve and the Eve community go there, change it. Let ED develop on its own.

 

[NoirWolf]

Something about history and repeating it comes to mind...but sure lets ignore it and pray this game won't have its version of m0o or the Dev and community repeating those same early missteps.

People say go back to EVE if I want that sort of community... The same thing happens in EVE when someone mentions another game as being in some way better.

 

[Rog]

Since this thread is really all about EVE, perhaps it should be parked in the other games sub forum thingy?

Btw, I know there are more people coming on board, but is it me or have there been a *very* noticeable and disproportionate uptick in 'E: D should be more like EVE' postings in recent weeks?

Probably just a coincidence.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's all just part of a wider game Rog. There'll be much more of this sort of thing to come.

Expect a huge flood of it come Beta

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Since this thread is really all about EVE, perhaps it should be parked in the other games sub forum thingy?

Btw, I know there are more people coming on board, but is it me or have there been a *very* noticeable and disproportionate uptick in 'E: D should be more like EVE' postings in recent weeks?

Probably just a coincidence.

Next you will say it sounds and feels like organized effort.

Naaaah....these things doesn't happen anymore.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It's all just part of a wider game Rog. There'll be much more of this sort of thing to come.

Expect a huge flood of it come Beta

Why the sad face. Aside from the noise, I think FD is well prepared for incoming waves

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

It's all just part of a wider game Rog. There'll be much more of this sort of thing to come.

Expect a huge flood of it come Beta

In the absence of being able to get even one layer into DBOBE's dreams to perform inception, the blunt instrument of online posting will have to do for some

 

[Herik]

Well it seems that generally ED's community and devs don't want the players to have much overall relevance. They want you to always be the little guy no matter how much effort a group of players put in.

It's what they want and overall I feel that it will be ED's biggest weakness overall when compared to EVE and Star Citizen.

Ahh...;but that's one of ED's attractions as far as I'm concerned...

 

[Cosmos]

Before any comments regarding how this isn't EVE and whatnot watch this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB1M9ZVuWtM ( long but worth it, it is professionally done)
And tell me that's not a game community to make any game proud and one I hope Elite will grow in time (it already has a good seed ready).

Disclaimer: I know this is not an MMO and guilds will not be in initially but it is still a social game so here's to hoping in a decade our ships will be discovering wormholes with extragalactic destinations and faction galleon type cap ships crewed partially by players and with mixed NPC and PC escort fleets getting ready to dive into the unknown.

Really interesting documentary. Thanks for linking.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well it seems that generally ED's community and devs don't want the players to have much overall relevance. They want you to always be the little guy no matter how much effort a group of players put in.

It's what they want and overall I feel that it will be ED's biggest weakness overall when compared to EVE and Star Citizen.

I don't know, for me it's biggest strength, because I have done old MMO style player encouters to death and looking forward doing something new.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Revisionist history? I was one of the Amarr protest leaders and the only agenda people cared about was spaceships first, Barbie dolls second. But you and Pacal seem to have an agenda as well which is amusing considering it classes as forum meta but besides the point.

You are correct I do have an agenda, the difference being and as far as I can tell, it's aligned to FDEV's and DBOBE's

 

[Herik]

Yes: you missed the part where this was about talking about the Elite community and how it will evolve post release and how I hope it takes the good bits from the EVE community ( solidarity as a gaming community, tenacity, sheer stubbornness, etc ).

"Solidarity, tenacity, sheer stubborness"; got that already...

 

[hunvagy]

You are correct I do have an agenda, the difference being and as far as I can tell, it's aligned to FDEV's and DBOBE's

Wait, so FDEV and DBOBE also want to assassinate the Hogfather? (Sorry, had to )

 

[PacalB]

Revisionist history? I was one of the Amarr protest leaders and the only agenda people cared about was spaceships first, Barbie dolls second. But you and Pacal seem to have an agenda as well which is amusing considering it classes as forum meta but besides the point.

The Monoclegate killed the notion that CCP was an allmighty god in their game that knew everything and considering how ****** off people wishing EVE would die currently are I say it is a good thing.

Oh and ambulation is still a thing, back burner yes but still there the only thing that got truly axed was in atmosphere flight in 2010 I think as it was just too much work considering the payout.

Spoiler

Etc.

I'm not going to play EVE tennis with you NoirWolf, all I'll say is, personally I'd rather not have this place turn into a EVE 2.0, and anyone who knows the long term history of EVE will more than likely feel the same (Why? because EVE was an MMORPG in the distant past). That is unless they are into meta gaming, toons and dumping on the storyline of the game as well as any form of RP towards it. ED as an EVE 2.0? Or what happened to EVE 1.0? No thank you.

Oh and as for your chart links, alts (toons) and first time players and old alts resubbing for a month don't make for a healthy rising player base. And ... 30-35K of pilots since 2009 to 2013 looks like a pretty static player base to me, the charts are not fooling anyone.

EVE is a Massively Multiplayer Online Game (MMORPG)

MMO? Sure ... yep, yes it is. RPG? No way, that died years ago when the metagaming toon brigade took over (something many many hope never happens here).

Lastly, this forum has rules that we "all" have to follow, when you registered here;

You agree to not:

• Use sexually explicit or harmful language including the use of misspelled or punctuated words to insinuate, represent any of the above - also known as "masked swearing". This includes words that are blocked by the automatic filter, swearing is not allowed in posts.

So how about you cut out constantly doing that in your post replies to us all please.

 

[JeffRyan]

You are correct I do have an agenda, the difference being and as far as I can tell, it's aligned to FDEV's and DBOBE's

Likewise, my agenda is to keep the EVE Online alliance domination gameplay out of the game and out of the forums where it's more likely to playout.

Since this thread is really all about EVE, perhaps it should be parked in the other games sub forum thingy?

Btw, I know there are more people coming on board, but is it me or have there been a *very* noticeable and disproportionate uptick in 'E: D should be more like EVE' postings in recent weeks?

Probably just a coincidence.

Yep. The metagame for EVE Player domination of ED has begun. PacalB has been warning of this for a year. I only joined him once it became clear he was right.

Besides. I do love a bit of internet drama. However, I don't want THAT sort of gameplay to dominate here. Be warier of the 'friendly' threads. They're the dangerous ones.

 

[PacalB]

Since this thread is really all about EVE, perhaps it should be parked in the other games sub forum thingy?

Btw, I know there are more people coming on board, but is it me or have there been a *very* noticeable and disproportionate uptick in 'E: D should be more like EVE' postings in recent weeks?

Probably just a coincidence.

Nope.