Horizons What have you done Frontier?

grimreaper · Jun 30, 2016

Big ships are as useless now! why do we play for a couple thousand hours to build the anaconda, corvette or cutter so we can have our asses handed to us by small ships? this is the most ridiculous game dynamic so far. Are you catering to the newer player by give the small ships an advantage? why would anyone at this point in the game build what used to be a superior ship to be target practice for smaller class ships. look guys don't use the "git gud" or "learn this" I have well over 2100 hours a billion credits, elite combat, elite trading , and 99% elite exploration, and an really at the stupidity. A large ship properly equipped should not be damaged and destroyed as easily as they are in 2.1. enough for the rant, I am now questioning my support for Frontier Development and wondering, have they actually forgotten the players who have been here since launch? are they so concerned with gaining new players they screw their senior players? the game has lost it's original focus and seems to be turning into a kids pew pew game and look mommy I killed an elite federal corvette. this probably won't get read anyways...

Starender · Jun 30, 2016

grimreaper said:
Big ships are as useless now! why do we play for a couple thousand hours to build the anaconda, corvette or cutter so we can have our asses handed to us by small ships? this is the most ridiculous game dynamic so far. Are you catering to the newer player by give the small ships an advantage? why would anyone at this point in the game build what used to be a superior ship to be target practice for smaller class ships. look guys don't use the "git gud" or "learn this" I have well over 2100 hours a billion credits, elite combat, elite trading , and 99% elite exploration, and an really at the stupidity. A large ship properly equipped should not be damaged and destroyed as easily as they are in 2.1. enough for the rant, I am now questioning my support for Frontier Development and wondering, have they actually forgotten the players who have been here since launch? are they so concerned with gaining new players they screw their senior players? the game has lost it's original focus and seems to be turning into a kids pew pew game and look mommy I killed an elite federal corvette. this probably won't get read anyways...

I understand what you are saying, well bigger ships doesn't necessarily means better, and also we have to remember the "strength in numbers" factor.
The smallest fighter plane can destroy a Bomber, a simple grenade can seriously damage a tank.

Offense will always be superior than defense, so it means that if you're in a huge ship fighting against multiple small ships, the clock is ticking, and time is not with you.
Once you know and accept all that you can think about the best choices to make to either win the fight or survive and run away.

I wish i could give you any more explications/advices, yes the AI is too strong for most CMDRs, some like it and want it to be even harder, i don't mind any difficulty regarding the AI but i feel sorry for casuals and people who don't want to focus exclusively on fighting.

I wish you all the strength and RNGLuck CMDR. (luck is now a huge factor is ED)

Hexcaliber · Jun 30, 2016

I am flying an anaconda and have not yet been destroyed doing so, not once, not pre 2.1, or post; larger ships have their place, as all do. If you want a game that offers an I win button ED is not it.

Further, combat rank in game means all, much, if not all was gained fighting near defenceless dumb as bricks ai. Given how many quote it as some badge of merit perhaps there is an argument for Fronter reseting all combat ranks and only having pvp combat count towards their progress; at least then it would mean something.

Shar · Jun 30, 2016

Your right i didn't read it.

m0nkeysensei · Jun 30, 2016

Hexcaliber said:
Further, combat rank in game means all, much, if not all was gained fighting near defenceless dumb as bricks ai. Given how many quote it as some badge of merit perhaps there is an argument for Fronter reseting all combat ranks and only having pvp combat count towards their progress; at least then it would mean something.

When was the last time you saw an actual human player, much less engaged in pvp. I have 7 days /played all in open and I have never been kiled by another player and can count in the tens the number of human players I saw in passing. People generally either stay around their faction base vicinity or populate the well known trade routes.

Have yet to engage in a war that was not just my faction vs an AI faction.

Starender · Jun 30, 2016

m0nkeysensei said:
Have yet to engage in a war that was not just my faction vs an AI faction.

They are no player faction anyway, only AI faction, so you will never engage a player faction.

Thebadmf · Jun 30, 2016

grimreaper said:
Big ships are as useless now! why do we play for a couple thousand hours to build the anaconda, corvette or cutter so we can have our asses handed to us by small ships? this is the most ridiculous game dynamic so far. Are you catering to the newer player by give the small ships an advantage? why would anyone at this point in the game build what used to be a superior ship to be target practice for smaller class ships. look guys don't use the "git gud" or "learn this" I have well over 2100 hours a billion credits, elite combat, elite trading , and 99% elite exploration, and an really at the stupidity. A large ship properly equipped should not be damaged and destroyed as easily as they are in 2.1. enough for the rant, I am now questioning my support for Frontier Development and wondering, have they actually forgotten the players who have been here since launch? are they so concerned with gaining new players they screw their senior players? the game has lost it's original focus and seems to be turning into a kids pew pew game and look mommy I killed an elite federal corvette. this probably won't get read anyways...

Try turrets? Try increasing distance to bring guns to bear? Ram them?

Learn to adapt. <No need>

Cmdr Ultra · Jun 30, 2016

But he's an Elite combat pilot how can this happen?

Oh because you earned your rank in the good old days, the solid years of dumb as a rock NPC's.
Yeah I was there too. Well actually I quit playing then because it was embarrassingly easy.

When I fly a Federal Corvette I'm invincible. Honestly what could you be doing to lose in a Corvette? It boggles the mind.

I've gone back to flying a Federal Gunship for a challenge.

Cmdr Esteban · Jun 30, 2016

grimreaper said:
...why do we play for a couple thousand hours to build the anaconda, corvette or cutter...

I don't know, why did you do that?

Large ships should be vulnerable to being outnumbered and outmanoeuvred by a wing of small ships if the large ship in question is unescorted, or not properly armed or properly handled. That seems realistic.

Cast your mind to the Battle of Britain, and think of a squadron of Spitfires/Hurricanes against unescorted Heinkel bombers - that happened on at least one occasion if I recall correctly. The RAF had a field day.

"Good show chaps. Home and tea!"

Flavourless · Jun 30, 2016

...think of a squadron of Spitfires/Hurricanes against unescorted Heinkel bombers...

ED vessels are more like ships than aircraft. See how you get on trying to sink a cruiser with a handful of frigates.

grimreaper · Jun 30, 2016

now that some have read this, I can explain my thoughts... federal gunship vs federal corvette nose to nose combat. hit the gunship with two 4a plasmas twice and staying on it with 3 beam lasers its shields barely drop, he hits me with just lasers and too quickly destroys my 7a shields even after firing 6a shield booster, had a friend watching in his fas, and he also was amazed how the gunship tore through my corvette even with all the supposed fire power hitting the gunship. and yes it was just my corvette vs the gunship. this to me indicates the larger ships have been nerfed, we literally fought nose to nose until I had to bug out at 40%, at that point the gunship had 68% and its shields magically came back up 100%. so a federal corvette worth well over a half a million and an anaconda worth a half a million are now garage queens. combat is for my fas, it appears stronger than the two large ships since 2.1. update, repeated same scenario with the fas, deadly gunship didn't last 60 seconds using 2d beams and 3c cannons both gimbaled. still amazed 4a plasma cannons don't damage as their listed

Eloy · Jun 30, 2016

A truck is much more expensive than a car, but it´s specialised.
It´s not an upgrade, it´s just different. Depends on what you want to do.
Thankfully the big ships aren´t the warmachines they used to be. It was unrealistic all the time.

Elderoy · Jun 30, 2016

This will be fixed with 2.2 as large ships must have their escort, like in any battle (winks to you, freespace 2)

Ralph Vargr · Jun 30, 2016

Flavourless said:
ED vessels are more like ships than aircraft. See how you get on trying to sink a cruiser with a handful of frigates.

Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles.

And nukes.

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Eloy said:
A truck is much more expensive than a car, but it´s specialised.
It´s not an upgrade, it´s just different. Depends on what you want to do.
Thankfully the big ships aren´t the warmachines they used to be. It was unrealistic all the time.

I remember PythonMania.

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When Wings dropped, the day of the single player craft got all-but-doomed.

Large craft were especially vulnerable.

So, I down-shifted. Nothing larger than an Asp, now.

With MoM unleashed, rebuy cost counts.

Ren Garris · Jun 30, 2016

OP, can you please post your ship specs?

Cmdr Dubstep Dragon · Jun 30, 2016

Starender said:
I understand what you are saying, well bigger ships doesn't necessarily means better, and also we have to remember the "strength in numbers" factor.
The smallest fighter plane can destroy a Bomber, a simple grenade can seriously damage a tank.

Offense will always be superior than defense, so it means that if you're in a huge ship fighting against multiple small ships, the clock is ticking, and time is not with you.
Once you know and accept all that you can think about the best choices to make to either win the fight or survive and run away.

I wish i could give you any more explications/advices, yes the AI is too strong for most CMDRs, some like it and want it to be even harder, i don't mind any difficulty regarding the AI but i feel sorry for casuals and people who don't want to focus exclusively on fighting.

I wish you all the strength and RNGLuck CMDR. (luck is now a huge factor is ED)

if i pay 200mill for a ship it should be able to kill a 50k eagle

Ren Garris · Jun 30, 2016

Cmdr Dubstep Dragon said:
if i pay 200mill for a ship it should be able to kill a 50k eagle

To a point, yes.

Just because you have the biggest, best ship doesn't mean you instantly win.

If you mode switched in Robigo and made hundreds of millions of credits and bought a ship you couldn't pilot due to a lack of experience, you will probably lose.

I'm not saying that's what anyone did, it's merely an example.

By your logic, I shouldn't be able to kill a Python in my Imp Eagle.

But I can.
And I do.

It's the pilot that matters, not the cost of the ship.
If you're a skilled pilot, you should be able to put up a fight no matter what you are in. You may not win, but you will get your pound of flesh.

Experience is the difference in knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent and capitalizing on them. Or knowing when to run.
Credits and experience are not always interchangeable.

Finbar · Jun 30, 2016

Flavourless said:
ED vessels are more like ships than aircraft. See how you get on trying to sink a cruiser with a handful of frigates.

On the other hand, with a couple of submarines...

Ren Garris · Jun 30, 2016

Finbar said:
On the other hand, with a couple of submarines...

Mmmmm subs.
I'm hungry.

Cmdr Dubstep Dragon · Jun 30, 2016

Ren Garris said:
To a point, yes.

Just because you have the biggest, best ship doesn't mean you instantly win.

If you mode switched in Robigo and made hundreds of millions of credits and bought a ship you couldn't pilot due to a lack of experience, you will probably lose.

I'm not saying that's what anyone did, it's merely an example.

By your logic, I shouldn't be able to kill a Python in my Imp Eagle.

But I can.
And I do.

It's the pilot that matters, not the cost of the ship.
If you're a skilled pilot, you should be able to put up a fight no matter what you are in. You may not win, but you will get your pound of flesh.

Experience is the difference in knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent and capitalizing on them. Or knowing when to run.
Credits and experience are not always interchangeable.

lol your logic is just as flawed as mine , imp eagle shouldent always win with a python

the fact of the mater is skill isnt an " all win " thats why the phrase "git gud" is meaningless

i say it should be pilot50/ship50, or maybe 75 and 25, idk im not a game dev