Proposal Discussion What if Gimballed could only be used on NPCs ?

[Slone]

Hi,

I'm not sure about this, so don't flame me right away. Also maybe this has already been proposed and discussed, in which case, my apologies and feel free to flush this thread.

Earlier I was thinking about how much fun I had taking down NPCs with gimballed weapons in PB1 and how I don't want to use them any longer in PB2. I now only use fixed weapons for the moment as I'm pretty sure I'm not good enough to touch anything with PB2 gimballed ones. I'm still having fun so far, it's just a bit less "frantic" and I lost the ability to aim at subsystems, which could be satisfying on an Anaconda.

Also, I understand the problem in terms of balancing PVP those weapons could bring in the case they go back anywhere near to their previous efficiency. I know we have the silent mode trick to escape gimballed weapons, but it's almost a desperate move as it kills your shields and you may suffer from heat damage if you have to keep it on too long. So it's a trade off that doesn't compensate the advantage of the auto-aim.

I was thinking maybe PVP should be possible only with fixed weapons. It could be that a cheap module would disrupt other players gimballed, basically turning them to fixed. NPC's wouldn't be affected by this and could still use their gimballed weapons on you as you could use yours on them.

This would make PVP back to more skills in aiming and flying, smart evasive maneuvers would be more rewarding. I also know that it's quite possible to escape gimballed weapons by means of pure flight skills, but there are occasions, like when you're being ambushed, where gimballed weapons does provide an extra edge as you can't really miss your 10 first shots at your victim (of course, not taking into account PB2 nerf, as it seems quite extreme).

I realize it would make some "tactics" like disabling your opponent's subsystems near impossible without them. These tactics could be crucial for pirates who wishes to open your cargo scoop.

For this point, perhaps gimballed in PvP (but maybe also in PvE) could be made in such a way that they are not as efficient as they are today with hull damage. In other words, maybe have gimballed weapons specialized in subsystems destruction and as a poor choice for pure killing.

These are just ideas. Maybe some of them will spark some others. Till we find the ideal compromise !

 

[NoirWolf]

Hi,

I'm not sure about this, so don't flame me right away. Also maybe this has already been proposed and discussed, in which case, my apologies and feel free to flush this thread.

Earlier I was thinking about how much fun I had taking down NPCs with gimballed weapons in PB1 and how I don't want to use them any longer in PB2. I now only use fixed weapons for the moment as I'm pretty sure I'm not good enough to touch anything with PB2 gimballed ones. I'm still having fun so far, it's just a bit less "frantic" and I lost the ability to aim at subsystems, which could be satisfying on an Anaconda.

Also, I understand the problem in terms of balancing PVP those weapons could bring in the case they go back anywhere near to their previous efficiency. I know we have the silent mode trick to escape gimballed weapons, but it's almost a desperate move as it kills your shields and you may suffer from heat damage if you have to keep it on too long. So it's a trade off that doesn't compensate the advantage of the auto-aim.

I was thinking maybe PVP should be possible only with fixed weapons. It could be that a cheap module would disrupt other players gimballed, basically turning them to fixed. NPC's wouldn't be affected by this and could still use their gimballed weapons on you as you could use yours on them.

This would make PVP back to more skills in aiming and flying, smart evasive maneuvers would be more rewarding. I also know that it's quite possible to escape gimballed weapons by means of pure flight skills, but there are occasions, like when you're being ambushed, where gimballed weapons does provide an extra edge as you can't really miss your 10 first shots at your victim (of course, not taking into account PB2 nerf, as it seems quite extreme).

I realize it would make some "tactics" like disabling your opponent's subsystems near impossible without them. These tactics could be crucial for pirates who wishes to open your cargo scoop.

For this point, perhaps gimballed in PvP (but maybe also in PvE) could be made in such a way that they are not as efficient as they are today with hull damage. In other words, maybe have gimballed weapons specialized in subsystems destruction and as a poor choice for pure killing.

These are just ideas. Maybe some of them will spark some others. Till we find the ideal compromise !

Your idea makes the game more hostile for noobs (many people won't have a stick and/or much experience with it). Not much else to say. The only thing that can be done is balance the damage vs the accuracy of the mounts.

 

[Slone]

Your idea makes the game more hostile for noobs (many people won't have a stick and/or much experience with it). Not much else to say. The only thing that can be done is balance the damage vs the accuracy of the mounts.

I don't know. Gimballed weapons in the hands of an experienced player is a lot more dreadful than in the hands of a noob. An experienced pilot will know how to prevent you from breaking the lock ; the noob will lose his target nonetheless. It won't matter if he's been able to damage the shield a bit more than if he had fixed weapons. Against fixed weapons, he can try evasive maneuvers and have a chance to escape most damages. While escaping gimballed weapons will be too much to ask.

 

[Blinde]

I would prefer that the rules for Players are the same as the rules for NPCs.

If you shoot out an NPCs FSD, then they shouldn't be able to escape into supercruise.
If you can use gimballed weapons on NPCs, you should be able to use them on players.

 

[Slone]

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I believe Gimballed are a lure for noobs, it makes things easier for them in PVE, but it makes things even more easier for experimented pilots in PVP.

 

[Slone]

I would prefer that the rules for Players are the same as the rules for NPCs.

If you shoot out an NPCs FSD, then they shouldn't be able to escape into supercruise.
If you can use gimballed weapons on NPCs, you should be able to use them on players.

Yes I tend to agree with that. That is the only thing that really bothers me with my initial proposition. But I don't think it should block the possibility. Fighting npc will always be very different than fighting real players, so we could have a couple of feature that doesn't behave exactly the same without breaking the immersion.

 

[NoirWolf]

Yes I tend to agree with that. That is the only thing that really bothers me with my initial proposition. But I don't think it should block the possibility. Fighting npc will always be very different than fighting real players, so we could have a couple of feature that doesn't behave exactly the same without breaking the immersion.

Depends on the AI, if it has more than a dozen attack patterns it is basically an average player and if gimballed weapons have lower dps than fixed by a order of magnitude or so then you really do not have a complaint to make (this would be seen in late standard beta not now ).

 

[Roland2]

I would prefer that the rules for Players are the same as the rules for NPCs.

If you shoot out an NPCs FSD, then they shouldn't be able to escape into supercruise.
If you can use gimballed weapons on NPCs, you should be able to use them on players.

This. Also, I don't like the nerfs they've done so far, so any more would be a negative in my book anyway.

They are just about useless now, certainly not worth the extra credits needed to buy them.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Nice try Slone, but don't bother : FD will just correct this non-sense in the next build. Right now, trading fuel is much more rewarding than shooting anyone in the Fed alert instance. If they don't correct this, they'll end up with more than 70% of their player base playing solo, it's not like they have a choice. Ils ont merdé avec cette modif, point barre.

 

[Hellhawk666]

An interesting proposal, but in the end I'd never be in favour of any system that distinguishes between PC and NPCs, with the single exception of being able to actually identify PCs immediately, as we can now (but I don't want to derail the thread by mentioning this).

On the whole I think it's a better approach to continue balancing the gimbaled and fixed weapons until an ideal mechanic is found for both.

Early in the alpha it was widely felt that our ships were far too fragile and had no chance whatsoever in combat. Many proposals, some quite complex and requiring a complete restructure of the game, were put forward to fix this but in the end a simple rebalance of the shield, weapon and damage mechanics by the devs sorted it all out. I'm sure the same will happen again with gimbaled weapons, supercruise, and everything else that comes up during the testing phases as being a bit out of whack.