What is all about this "gold farm" fetish I see a lot of players have.

[TheNut]

Gold Farming opens the door to out of game trading of in game resources using real world money.

Nothing stops someone from doing that today by dropping gold bars from their ship and having players collect, sell, and return until the transaction is complete. Simply transferring credits would offer a quality of life for players who don't have the time to invest in this game. As often said, some gamers have more time than money, some have more money than time. Catering to both sides is a strong business strategy.

As for the act of wanting credit transfers vs those that don't, the simple answer is human psychology. Our species has a long and rather violent history of people with difference of opinions. It's best not to try and understand or explain why, just simply accept it and move on. "Smile and nod" as I tell people.

The real question is what does FDev want to prioritize? They have a limited budget and team size. Based on their history, they've flip flopped on ideas, never really executing on them to their full potential. A player driven economy doesn't seem to be on their radar and so there's not much reason to invest development to support player credit/premium currency and commodity transfers until they build a proper economy to support that model. Personally I think it would be a wise business strategy for FDev as it will build a stronger player base with increased player retention as players will now have a real, tangible impact in the galaxy. More active players, more engagement, more steady revenue. But that's just my 2½ pence.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Nothing stops someone from doing that today by dropping gold bars from their ship and having players collect, sell, and return until the transaction is complete. Simply transferring credits would offer a quality of life for players who don't have the time to invest in this game. As often said, some gamers have more time than money, some have more money than time. Catering to both sides is a strong business strategy.

Way too much effort for them at current. Yes it doesn't stop it but the more time it takes the less they can make money so it makes their bot-farm operations less effective.
In MMOs with transfers they simply go to the protected trading zone no combat allowed, press 2 buttons and transfer the amount.

Which is why currently you will never see any spam messages in ingame chat.
If they were doing gold farming in Elite it'd be easier to sell accounts as a whole with a fake e-mail account and force people to transfer the stuff themselves, easier to do that on cheaters forums. Whilst I haven't looked I'd be very surprised if this wasn't happening.



One other arguement against I have to add to my original post here is that it will build players up too quickly. I already have a massive massive issue with how the early game is set-up in terms of 400k+ missions and getting from sidewinder to Asp/Python/Anaconda in mere days. Of the 30 odd ships in game over half are cheaper than 10mil. In a basic mission running cobra you can get a ridiculous amount of cash fairly quick and miss out on all those ships and experiences.
It's why we have posts with "Died in my Anaconda, back in sidewinder" and stuff like that.
imho the progression especially early and late game is a bit messed up. It feels decent mid-game, I feel a few more ships are needed between the Asp and the big 3 but aside from that it feels ok to me. Adding gold for cash will just break that even more.

 

[SpaceGoblin]

ED is FDev licence and only this company can monetize it, no other reasons are needed to fight goldfarmers.

There you go. Answered your own question

 

[Sylveria]

One other arguement against I have to add to my original post here is that it will build players up too quickly. I already have a massive massive issue with how the early game is set-up in terms of 400k+ missions and getting from sidewinder to Asp/Python/Anaconda in mere days. Of the 30 odd ships in game over half are cheaper than 10mil. In a basic mission running cobra you can get a ridiculous amount of cash fairly quick and miss out on all those ships and experiences.
It's why we have posts with "Died in my Anaconda, back in sidewinder" and stuff like that.
imho the progression especially early and late game is a bit messed up. It feels decent mid-game, I feel a few more ships are needed between the Asp and the big 3 but aside from that it feels ok to me. Adding gold for cash will just break that even more.

Well, the good news is that they don't last very long once they've Condacided and are back in the Sidewinder. And further attempts at such will eventually teach them how to utilize their ships properly. LOL

On the game "progression" issues side of things, my biggest problem is that people somehow think you have to own one of the "big 3" to begin with. Hell I don't care if they're earning oodles of credits and burning up rebuys- it's the "I've know gotten my Cutter/Conda/Corvette and the game is boring​ to me now!" etc.

 

[Falcon_D]

Ok if this will happen it could really be annoying but again this messeage you will have to get from some goldfarmer CMDR - so it will be very easy for FDev to perma ban this goldfarmer.

And by not allowing it in the first place FDev just saved themselves the hassel of policing this.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Nothing stops someone from doing that today by dropping gold bars from their ship and having players collect, sell, and return until the transaction is complete.

Simply transferring credits would offer a quality of life for players who don't have the time to invest in this game. As often said, some gamers have more time than money, some have more money than time. Catering to both sides is a strong business strategy.

Personally I think it would be a wise business strategy for FDev as it will build a stronger player base with increased player retention as players will now have a real, tangible impact in the galaxy. More active players, more engagement, more steady revenue. But that's just my 2½ pence.

Have you tried this? it takes forever! A hacked account would take months to clean out.

People who do not have the time to do a thing should wonder if they should be doing that thing. Nothing is stopping them by all means 'have a go', but they shouldnt expect to be on equal footing to those who do have the time/skill to do a thing. If someone wishes to learn how to play a musical instrument, learn a second language, advance in their career, advance in a sport or hobby, they invest the time and they move forward. The idea in gaming that someone who is unwilling or unable to advance because of (issue) should be allowed to equal their (online) peers through paying HARD CASH, boggles the mind. For the sake of players who cannot or will not play the game, ballance and fairness are to be thrown out in favour of cynical profit and entitled satisfaction.


how do you define real tangible impact in ED? Is sitting on Billions of credits and a collection of large ships going to guarantee that... what ever that is?

If Fdev want better player retention they should improve core game mechanics..

I see a galaxy that would be filled with professional gold farmers working (not playing) only to profit. Players being defrauded and harassed by gold sellers in game and out, People having their accounts hacked and looted, players quiting the game altogether because of the toxic enviroment, Fdev in the middle as the games reputation flounders.

 

[Suvi Anwar]

Ok if this will happen it could really be annoying but again this messeage you will have to get from some goldfarmer CMDR - so it will be very easy for FDev to perma ban this goldfarmer.

Not it is not easy. There are thousands of workers spamming advertising, and they make so much money that they don't care if an account only lasts 2 or 3 days before its terminated.

True story: I had my Diablo 3 collectors account banned by Blizzard because I was using a third party app to block chat packets, more specifically, the 3000 spam messages every .3987990 seconds across every channel. $125 down the tube. The damage these aholes cause doesn't stop at ruining game economies (if they have one), or annoying the hell out of everyone.

CS staff for any of these games has an impossible battle with these groups, especially if the game is free to play or costs very little to get into <$10. They make thousands of accounts and then rotate through them a few minutes at a time using dedicated farms of PCs. Managing a CS staff where this is a problem is something I will never ever do again, it's a nightmare of epic proportions.

So, NO to trading CR.

 

[Sylveria]

Not it is not easy. There are thousands of workers spamming advertising, and they make so much money that they don't care if an account only lasts 2 or 3 days before its terminated.

True story: I had my Diablo 3 collectors account banned by Blizzard because I was using a third party app to block chat packets, more specifically, the 3000 spam messages every .3987990 seconds across every channel. $125 down the tube. The damage these aholes cause doesn't stop at ruining game economies (if they have one), or annoying the hell out of everyone.

CS staff for any of these games has an impossible battle with these groups, especially if the game is free to play or costs very little to get into <$10. They make thousands of accounts and then rotate through them a few minutes at a time using dedicated farms of PCs. Managing a CS staff where this is a problem is something I will never ever do again, it's a nightmare of epic proportions.

So, NO to trading CR.

Not to mention a huge amount of these gold farmers use stolen credit card numbers, bank accounts, etc. in order to continue financing the ability to create more accounts, etc.

The entire issue becomes a "whack-a-mole" game, and wastes a huge amount of time and money for a business. Best to just leave it completely out of this game. No player-driven markets, no credit exchanges, etc.

 

[XYZ]

There you go. Answered your own question

Was it really my question ? I play a game and gold farmers are devs problem not mine. I asked about players.

 

[Suvi Anwar]

Was it really my question ? I play a game and gold farmers are devs problem not mine. I asked about players.

They become your problem when the devs are overwhelmed trying to combat them, development of the game slows because they are spending inordinate amounts of time and energy (as well as $) trying to limit the problem. And I say "limit" because as long as there is a player economy or transferable currency, the farmers will be a huge problem, both in game and out.

Every time one of these farmers makes an account with a stolen CC, the Devs lose a huge chuck of $ when the CC company does a charge back because the CC was stolen, they have to pay staff to deal with it. The Devs LOSE money on 3 fronts with these farmers.

 

[SpaceGoblin]

Was it really my question ? I play a game and gold farmers are devs problem not mine. I asked about players.

You're just being disengenuous now.

If an aspect of the game is to be monetised, only FDev should benefit from those funds.

Other posters have given plenty of excellent information about how it will ruin a game - in terms of effects on the players, the developer/publisher, and the game itself as resources are dragged away from development to police such a thing instead.

Done.

 

[Kaocraft]

We all know what is "gold farming" in multipayer games. Here in ED every time someone suggest player to player credit transfer great number of CMDR's starts their usual song - "oh no we cant allow credit transfer to happen, gold farmers will be everywhere and it will ruin my game experience !".
Well how exactly gold farm will ruin your game ?

It will have place in solo/private group coz it is bussines not playng for fun as such no one will have credit farm in open where everyone can interact.

You can fly only one ship at the time and cant buy anything else than ships so why do you care how many ships I did have bought for goldfarm credits, and more important how it is that MY ships stacked at some station ruin YOUR game experience... ?

Do I miss something or this "gold farm" thing is just a fetish ?

Anyone ? [noob]

You're trying to downplay or outright dismiss the negative aspects of player to player credit transfer. (e.g. "How does it ruin YOUR game if I have all the ships without working for them?" Etc.) OK fine. But how does it improve the game for ME? Why should I WANT it? If your best argument is "it probably won't annoy you as much as you think it will," then my instinct is going to be "hey let's not do that".

 

[Rafe Zetter]

We all know what is "gold farming" in multipayer games. Here in ED every time someone suggest player to player credit transfer great number of CMDR's starts their usual song - "oh no we cant allow credit transfer to happen, gold farmers will be everywhere and it will ruin my game experience !".
Well how exactly gold farm will ruin your game ?

It will have place in solo/private group coz it is bussines not playng for fun as such no one will have credit farm in open where everyone can interact.

You can fly only one ship at the time and cant buy anything else than ships so why do you care how many ships I did have bought for goldfarm credits, and more important how it is that MY ships stacked at some station ruin YOUR game experience... ?

Do I miss something or this "gold farm" thing is just a fetish ?

Anyone ? [noob]

you are forgetting several important and crucial factors:

wow - naive or what?


- goldfarming allows players to buy currency, which allows them to bypass a massive chunk of the game, thus going from zero to UBER in the time it takes to click "buy now".

- this in turn allows you to buy as many ships as you like, equipped how you like (in some cases, but engineering does limit that in ED) and have a seemingly endless supply of them. Even if FDev implemented a "no rebuy for greifers policy" (my idea) you wouldn't care, because you've got 50 more ships just like it.

- prolly the most important one is - credit transfer will allow goldfarming, and goldfarming would absolutely cripple any form of interactive economy, because there will be players who are so rich they REALLY DON'T CARE if an item has been priced at 1000% markup, and that would soon become the "established price" for that item, and then others and then more, and soon players who try to play legit will have zero chance to compete. I have seen this personally many times - in games that have human goldfarmers or longterm veterans.

- credit transfer also allows crafting mats bots, with throwaway accounts (especically so now you can buy the game for just £5 on sale) - which is the OTHER end of the scale, the economy becomes so awash with items that there is absolutely zero point in a player collecting it themselves, even the rare stuff (also seen that personnally with the stat buff fish in WoW, or the vanilla fishing pole)

- credit transfer will be another way to negate any meaningful bounty system

- credit tranfer would allow goldfarmers to reproduce exponentially (like the virus they are) with each one sucking from the teats of the last to get uber ships in zero time thus increasing thier earning potential.


XYZ - move along, clearly this isn't the game for you, if you bought the game - thanks for the money

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Was it really my question ? I play a game and gold farmers are devs problem not mine. I asked about players.

It's clear you do not have anywhere near enough personal experience or knowledge to understand just how goldfarming & botting affects your gaming - but I can assure you, from someone who's been playing games online since they first appeared in dozens of different formats that they do.

You just don't think it does, because you are either one of them, want to become one of them, or want to benefit from them with an iWIN credit card transaction; that much is plainly evident. (you've also publicly marked yourself out to FDev as well.... [haha])

Any game you've ever played that has a player driven economy or marketplace to sell items has goldfarmers and bots - almost 100% of the time - and the prices of those items are either artificially inflated or taken to rock bottom by goldfarmers and bots.

Neverwinter MMO - it has items on it's auction house that cost MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of ingame currency - I worked out one day how much the most expensive item was, both against RL currency it would have taken to buy it (it has a rather convoluted system whereby you can buy 1 type (zen) and then auction it for another at a 50:1 ratio) and the ingame grind time.

real life value was in the TENS OF THOUSANDS of pounds - GBP.

real time grind it would have taken to earn that same amount, earning a max capped amount of 33,000 per day was 878 DAYS - or TWO YEARS, four months.... of playing roughly 4 hours per day.

ONE ITEM, when you can buy ALL of your gear items from the auction house and there's over a dozen of them required - it's extremely common to see gems (socketable) selling for millions.

I would personally guess you could throw £100,000 into the game and still not have the best gear the game has to offer.

It's also the reason why almost all the players I know have farming alts - one player I know has 51 - yes FIFTY ONE farming / crafting alts. I've got ten myself before I realised what a monumental waste of time it was trying to compete.

THAT is how bad goldfarming and bots can get.

XYZ - you have no clue what you are asking for.

 

[two quiet suns]

When you can buy and sell ma at 100,000k from Darnielles and just give them to your mates with 5a collectors its trivial to xfer millions of credits. I bought my two buddies Pythons as they don't play much and I'm a multi-billionaire.
I tend to fly around with a hold of MA just to give to newbies and anyone brave enough to stop.

 

[Brrokk]

Who are the "lot of players" in the thread title? I think this is the first mention of gold farming I've seen in this forum.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

This is what you get when you have a player base with a large number of players over 40.

The community develops a Grandpa Complex and can't stop yelling at people to get off their lawn.

Sounds like what you do, but the other way round.

 

[Tarman]

Who are the "lot of players" in the thread title? I think this is the first mention of gold farming I've seen in this forum.

It's easier to lead off with your "allowing professional game cheating to flourish it ain't that bad" topic when you have a bunch of pretend people against it. Though there's enough real people against it for valid enough reasons that the fake people against it were probably un-necessary.

 

[Tuzmaal]

This is what you get when you have a player base with a large number of players over 40.

The community develops a Grandpa Complex and can't stop yelling at people to get off their lawn.

 

[XYZ]

Who are the "lot of players" in the thread title? I think this is the first mention of gold farming I've seen in this forum.

Check history of this forum, look for threads about player to player credit transfer or MMO mechanic in ED there are hordes of the "lot of players".