What is it with these thread about PVP.

[Max Torps]

I'm going to be controversial and probably upset people. Please let me first say that I'm very sorry if I upset you.

These threads bore me. Why? They are subjective buckets of utter whine from all sides of whatever the argument is. In fact, they act as a magnet for arguments and in their own right should be closed down as being argumentative. I'm sure someone will classify this post similarly however the point that keeps being missed over and over again is that if the mechanic exists the activity must be allowed.

That's it. No further argument required. If you don't like the mechanic then you need to request that it is changed.

This message has been brought to you by a soldier of happiness currently piloting an Eagle.

 

[Captain Howdy]

I chuckle when I read these threads. I guess it is good these players have options to avoid pvp. I would rather have it this way than see the crusades and petitions. One thing though is that the vast majority of gamers and games are pvp. Themeparks are dead and dying and are actually being cancelled unless the developers are already past the point of no return and must push one out. None are being planned either for the future. AI is getting menacing too and beginning to behave much more advanced and human-like. The cries of that have already been heard here along with the changes to interdiction. I believe some have called out the npcs for griefing since they sometimes can't get away from all interdictions.

Many advanced and veteran pvpers are some of the best people you will ever meet in or out of a game. The freshness of never knowing what to expect and the uncertainty of other humans and their motivations and desires are what keeps games entertaining and fresh for many of us for years and the pvp that does occur has reasons and motivations behind it and not just for the killing. There are anti social retards on both sides of the fence and actually the most toxic I have seen are the pve variety and being a veteran pvper I tend to generally show respect and caution. We have learned this the hard way playing in a risk vs. reward vs. death environment and making decisions in that environment actually builds savvy and character.

I tip my hat, and hope we can make a deal out there in the black, or somebody just might not come back.

 

[JiminyJickers]

For me, I almost always only play PvE because I'm not a skillful player - busy working adults don't have the luxury of spending time on the finer points of a game. I play games only to have some simple fun, not stressed up to achieve something great. Thus, I almost never play multiplayer game. I mean, what fun is there when every few seconds, you get head-shot & respawn?! Honestly, most solo campaigns I played are on the easy setting because I just want to know the story without having to learn the details of crafting, alchemy, traps, bombs etc. etc. I wanna enjoy myself just by clicking the same few buttons and see how the story develops. For example, I'll play through BF4 campaign on easy setting and never touch the multiplayer side of things. Without the campaign, I wouldn't even have bought BF4.

However, there is 1 type of game that I don't mind PvP - Racing games. Why? For one, I'm reasonably good, despite using only a gamepad. For another, there's no death - you just finish the race either in a pack or come last. Thus, to me, PvP is better for (1) someone who's really good and self-confident, (2) someone who's not so good but is thrilled by the challange, (3) someone who's a noob but is insterested and motivated enough to learn more and (4) someone with loads of time to spare.

Thus, PvE and solo play has its place in this game. I for one, will play that ... simply as an Explorer without having to go into combat much. Only when I'm skilled and have the time to spare, will I go into the PvP part of this game.

I completely agree, I am exactly the same.

I don't mind the idea of PVP, it sounds fun, but I don't have the time or patience to become skilled enough to compete with most players. I will give it a try in this game but for me the solo offline mode is where I'll spend most of my time.

 

[Bryan]

I'm not liking what I see. The whole idea of a Space Simulator is to live in that World at that time. When I play these games I basically place myself in that ship and really live in that moment. If there is War there is War. If somebody Ganks you then that's just part of the game. I believe there is plenty of room in space to do what we all want to do. And there are Roles for every kind of player out there. PVP,PVE,RP,MP and Single Player.
There is nothing to really argue about even though Humans are always arguing about something. LOL , But then again who say's where all Human. That's the problem with Humans , They think there the only figures in existence. Anyway back to the game. I think if we all Role-play more we could have a really awesome time playing Elite.

 

[Draggin]

One thing though is that the vast majority of gamers and games are pvp.

SALUTE! folks,

Sir, would you care please to back up that statement with some published stats? It has been my experience in my 30 years of gaming that MOST people avoid PVP as much as they can. Name the game, and if there is an option to avoid PVP they do. Remember Ultima Online? THE first MMO? Started off with one world, full PVP. Then a couple years down the line they introduced a split world, Trammel and Felluca. Trammel non pvp, Felluca the original world, full pvp. Guess what. Almost the entire population went to Trammel of every server. Felluca was completly dead... hahahhaha and mostly safe to travel through! WOW servers... the PVP servers are the LOW population ones. On and on and on...

So, from my experience, and I AM a pvper, MOST folks do NOT want pvp... they want a game to play without someone interrupting.

Just my 2 cents.

SALUTE! and cya in the stars!

CMDR Draggin

 

[Muldeh]

So, from my experience, and I AM a pvper, MOST folks do NOT want pvp... they want a game to play without someone interrupting their style with surprise sex.

League of legends, Dota, Starcraft, Call of Duty, all got big from their single player campaigns right?

Nope! The pvp.

 

[Draggin]

League of legends, Dota, Starcraft, Call of Duty, all got big from their single player campaigns right?

Nope! The pvp.

SALUTE! Sir!

I know what SC and COD are, but I have never heard of DOTA nor LoL. And I must apologize, I should have put in a qualifying statement with my judgement which is this:

Given a choice within a game, MOST players will choose pve over pvp in MY observation. IF someone chooses a pure pvp game, then SURE they want to and will play pvp.. As far as SC goes? Sorry sir, but you have NO CLUE as to how many folks play the pve side... for instance, my whole family plays coop pve, as we have done with SC 1 and 2. Sure they make a big deal of the pvp stuff.. but that is only for promotion. They know that most of their audience is pve. (PURE SPECULATION as is the original quoted response.) The very same goes for Diablo2... Family play is pure coop... individuals go for pvp once in a while, otherwise it is single player or lan coop... 30 years here as an adult... really..

SALUTE! and cya in the stars!

CMDR Draggin

 

[Herewego]

I've never been a PvP fan. I find it creates too many personal issues and arguments. But for me it boils down to how one person's game affects others. I choose to play PvE, but I really enjoy playing WITH others in a cooperative manner. So I do like multiplayer online games, but I prefer to play alongside colleagues to achieve a common in-game goal. Again, my choice, and why I joined Mobius' group.

In a completely sandbox game environment (such as in Darkfall) MY game style had little or no adverse effect on those who chose to play fully open PvP. Yet those who chose to play that fully open PvP would treat me as a legitimate target, which I was, and fight against me, kill me, take my posessions etc. So THEIR favoured gaming option had a massive impact on MY gaming experience. Kind of a one-sided situation and why I swiftly left Darkfall. I don't mind PvP if it's consensual and has some degree of decency about it, but it often doesn't. So in Darkfall, for example, you'd get a newbie character going about his business, mining for ore to make a few gold when he sold it, only to find some higher level character nearby would kill him and take all his hard earned ore the moment he'd finished his work. The game was brutal.

I also played Age of Conan, and in that game you would see player avatars hanging around near a fight between a PC and an NPC. If the fight was close you'd often see the PC win the fight against the NPC, but not in great shape after the battle. Then the PC was easy pickings for the PvP character who had been hanging around waiting to take out that 'injured victor'. I found such action a very low thing to do, but it notched up another PvP kill for the moron who was exploiting the situation. We often hear the PvP fans saying this type of behaviour is by a minority, but I can tell you it became VERY common in AoC. That's just one example of the stunts that some people got up to.

Bring that into open ED and you can maybe understand my suspicion and dislike of full PvP here too. If I built up a huge credit balance and bought and equipped an amazingly powerful ship, there's no way I would attack a poorly equipped player. I just couldn't do it. If someone attacked me, then sure they would be a legitimate target, but I still may not kill them if I vastly outpowered them. I couldn't play the role of a pirate, for instance, and rob other players of their hard earned credits (through trading or missions for example), it's just not part of the way I am. I'd feel guilty.

Believe me, I do understand that some, probably most, ED PvP fans have their ethics and won't attack certain other players, either through completely outmatching them or for various roleplaying reasons, and I respect that. It's the small minority that PvP games seem to attract that have no such ethics that draws me away from open play, and hence why I choose to play in a PvE group.

It's all personal choice and should be respected for what it is...it's all about how we enjoy our gaming experience. What annoys me is when the hardcore PvPers make derogatory comments about those that don't like PvP, as if we are cowards who daren't face them. I've seen more than one post by PvP fans referring to PvE players as 'cuddle bunnies' and other such insulting comments. There's no need for that at all. And it's that kind of comment that proves my point about the type of person I find highly undesirable in my gaming experience.

You nailed it perfectly commander

 

[Herewego]

and yet again

PVP open (open play old name)

PVE open

Single play (for those that don't even want human interaction)

you want to make lot a lot of sales do this developers

Problem solved

 

[Seonid]

There is no problem to solve, the game mechanics all exist. Want a pure PVE life? Join something like the Mobius group. Want to PVP when you want, knowing everyone else is expecting the same? Join the TEST group.
Want to play and accept whatever happens? Join Open. I really don't understand this urge to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[TiberiuS]

I've never been a PvP fan. I find it creates too many personal issues and arguments. But for me it boils down to how one person's game affects others. I choose to play PvE, but I really enjoy playing WITH others in a cooperative manner. So I do like multiplayer online games, but I prefer to play alongside colleagues to achieve a common in-game goal. Again, my choice, and why I joined Mobius' group.
...

THIS
Same for me. I like COOP games a lot more than PVP games. Playing with friends or other people and having a social experience is a lot more fun to me than shooting someone (virtually) to pieces.
Most FPS are PVP, which is no real problem. I played CS for years, also competitively, but I always put fun over the competitive aspect (can't deny when you win the one comes with the other...). But it's the social aspects that make completely repetitive games like CS playable for such a long time, at least for me.

I remember one ESL clanwar, when we all started to do and talk utter nonsense while defending bombspots. Hitting "Use Button" (sounded like *moeb* and others could hear that) on the PCs ingame, acting like we were playing CS in CS, yelling "you cheater" in the TS. Until the two guys defending the other bombspot rushed in. Of couse they were confused and one of them asked "What's going on HERE?!". Next thing was someone saying "Hey, who's defending the other bombspot now?" followed by "Bomb has been planted"-message. We laughed so hard for a few seconds, went to the other spot and somehow still managed to win the war.
THIS is what remains in memory. It's the social interactions that sometimes lead to weird storys. I don't even remember what the name of the other clan was, because it doesn't matter... shooting someone is not a social interaction.

League of legends, Dota, Starcraft, Call of Duty, all got big from their single player campaigns right?

Nope! The pvp.

I have to disagree, too. I can talk for CoD and SC. They would never have gotten very famous without their stunning SP campaigns. The SC SP is still one of the best storys and campains game-wise and I know a lot of people (me included) who only played SC because of singleplayer. Same goes for CoD.
Same thing for Diablo 2, which was mainly a COOP game for me with a stunning story.

Counter-Question: What makes games like Left 4 Dead or Borderlands so famous?... it's because they are actually meant for coop play.
Other example which may suit you more: TeamFortress2! It has no SP, but what makes it famous is the Team aspcet. Teamplay is key, which keeps it interesting over a long time.

I don't say "take PvP out of the game" because it really belongs there. It just needs to be limited somehow. Best thing to do this is gameplay wise. Through authority NPCs rushing in to help (when the bounty is very high even the military could take notice and send squad) in the faction controlled systems, through fees and bounty, which of course need to be balanced. Also a designated "pirate" just isn't allowed to land on factional stations when there's a bounty on his head and thus he can't buy fuel and equipment there. In a "social" game, ED is one of them (social, factional, economic simulation), there have to be downsides when you are an outlaw. I trust Frontier in this; they'll find a way to do it. Because farming noobs in the starting systems (which are faction controlled) should not happen.

As many tried to explain before. It really is a big issue that when a PvP player attacks a PvE player, he puts the PvE player where he doesn't want to be and spoils his fun for the game by doing so (depends on the PvE player of course how much, but it essentially is like that). Additionally the PvE player will lose the fight in 95% of cases, because the PvP player picked a victim which is no match for him and his equipment.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

League of legends, Dota, Starcraft, Call of Duty, all got big from their single player campaigns right?

Nope! The pvp.

There have been valid points on both sides of the fence. I personally am glad of PvP in this game, even though it is not something I am especially interested in *in this game*. I feel right now the game caters to me perfectly, as well as to everyone really as there are options.

The only time I get my knickers in a twist is when people start demanding that the game modes as they stand are all wrong and the game will fail unless solo and All are locked down. Aside from that tho, its all gravy.

That being said, the point of my reply..... was to the post quoted.

Star craft and COD both used to have brilliant solo campaigns...... Now I cant comment on starcraft as I have not played since the launch starcraft 2 game many years ago, but for me personally COD has absolutely regressed over the last number of iterations becasue I always loved the solo / co-op parts of the game and viewed MP as the bonus extra bit at the end. (I also feel battlefield badcompany was the highlight of the BF games for me - despite having all of them - because of the great story based experience.

Regardless of whether they are largely multiplayer now, (for better or for worse) you have the single player game to thank for all of them as without the solo game you would not have had any of them (dota was a mod from warcraft 3 which was primarily a single player game)

dota also IME shows all that is bad about "serious" online competitive gaming, and I personally hate it. I dared to have a dabble on it once, clearly i had no idea what I was doing, but the community was toxic and the responses I got put me off for life, and from what I have read and heard on podcasts, this was not a 1 off, with many even friendly players admitting that it is not a good community for the newcommer. Sadly long (long) gone are the years where I can put hundreds of hrs into a single game to get good at it.

now co-op games I love, and as soon as DB et al said that whilst they would not block PvP but they were looking for a larely co-op experience it was music to my ears. and frm what I have seen so far, for the most part now we are out of more than 5 systems the game is delivering as promised (when it works but that is for another thread )

 

[Crook]

I would prefer to play with people but generally not fight so much. Mining, trading and cooperating.

I think it needs a core of a few thousand systems where fighting is discouraged, or limited.

But I definitely want lots of human interaction. I haven't seen a lot in open play. Sometimes I've been nose to nose with a ship and we've rotated and stuff to look at each others ships in space. I'd want a more cooperative dynamic.

 

[Herewego]

it is still a nice single play game this will do for now

 

[natte hond]

I'm not reading this hole tread , but heres what my impressions are.

David Braben said "all players are member of the pilots alliance and the AI is not."

this is a very important message in my opinion.
it almost the same as saying the game is not intended for pvp.

if so the 32 players in one instance max makes perfect sense.
and pvp is only legal in war zones where the other player chose the other side.

 

[Muldeh]

Hmm odd..

I didn't consider cod or sc2s single player campaigns because.. I was introduced to the games through their multiplayer modes. In fact I never played modern warfares single player campaign until like a year after getting it, when I had lost my internet connection for a while. Sc2 the whole campaign really is just a way of introducing new players to all the new units slowly, so when I started I did the campaign, played against a couple of bots, then straight into multiplayer. Once you've played enough with real players going back to the bots it's just sooo trivial to beat them you have to give yourself handicaps even against the highest difficulty bots, and it really isn't very enjoyable. :S

But thats just my opinion.

 

[TiberiuS]

if so the 32 players in one instance max makes perfect sense.
and pvp is only legal in war zones where the other player chose the other side.

That's a good point. (Il-)legality should imo have heavy impact on your social and economic expierence in game. So the only way to legally fight another player is in warzones where you can choose the side af one faction and fight against another. Everything else is piracy/murder and can be balanced through disadvantages in social (authorities shooting at you, bounties/fees, loyality rating) and economic (no landing permission to factional stations) expierence.

 

[Unfluffydave]

League of legends, Dota, Starcraft, Call of Duty, all got big from their single player campaigns right?

Nope! The pvp.

LOL, DOTA and SC were all designed from the ground up to be PVP games so it is no surprise that they are popular with pvp'ers. Actually COD did get famous from its single player campaigns in the WW2 games, it is only recent additions that have shifted focus.

 

[Cosmos]

I chuckle when I read these threads. I guess it is good these players have options to avoid pvp. I would rather have it this way than see the crusades and petitions. One thing though is that the vast majority of gamers and games are pvp. Themeparks are dead and dying and are actually being cancelled unless the developers are already past the point of no return and must push one out. None are being planned either for the future. AI is getting menacing too and beginning to behave much more advanced and human-like. The cries of that have already been heard here along with the changes to interdiction. I believe some have called out the npcs for griefing since they sometimes can't get away from all interdictions.

Many advanced and veteran pvpers are some of the best people you will ever meet in or out of a game. The freshness of never knowing what to expect and the uncertainty of other humans and their motivations and desires are what keeps games entertaining and fresh for many of us for years and the pvp that does occur has reasons and motivations behind it and not just for the killing. There are anti social retards on both sides of the fence and actually the most toxic I have seen are the pve variety and being a veteran pvper I tend to generally show respect and caution. We have learned this the hard way playing in a risk vs. reward vs. death environment and making decisions in that environment actually builds savvy and character.

I tip my hat, and hope we can make a deal out there in the black, or somebody just might not come back.

Good points. Its generally been my view too and I think you make a good point about toxic players being on both sides of the fence.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Personally i would be happy to play in Open if i could be sure that PvPers would only choose to PvP in situations where it was warranted (ie: in conflict zones or dangerous/anarchy systems). But i know there will be some ats who will hang around the stars of high security systems waiting for weaker ships to jump in and blast them, then say silly things like "LOL, I p0wned u".

Ill be taking this game slowly, its taken me a month to get to the point of getting a Cobra. The last thing i want is someone who can spend 24x7 playing, in a pimped out Anaconda, killing me for the lulz.

I have the feeling Open play will after release become synonymous with PvP and toxicity. So i'm very happy we have the option of private groups and solo play. +1 for the Mobius PvE group.