What is murder?

[StiTch]

Cmdr B with medium/big ship jump in, and procced to dock. But fogot to stay under 100 m/s, so Cmdr A boost into him, and crash, causing game "think" that Cmdr B just rammed him do death, hence getting wanted status, so station opens fire. Odds for cmdr B is low to survive that, but if somehow managed to evade, now he got Wanted along "murder penalty" as well.

Do me a favour: in your head construct a scenario where you are driving to work, doing 60 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.

You hit a pedestrian that stepped into the road and kill them.

You tell the policeman "It's fine, I'm not to blame because they definitely stepped into the road with intent, and I only forgot I was speeding"

Now tell the class how that plays out IRL

...if you have an agenda against general crime/punishment please raise it elsewhere. OP wanted to explore some important points raised around something specifically, and you're just confusing it. And if you want to avoid CMDR B's fate, kill your speed - not your credit balance.

 

[Schlack]

Killing a wanted player isn't murder as you will be collecting a bounty.

Killing an unwanted player is murder.

Both players turning crimes off should not be murder.

Killing players in CZs would not be murder as both are lawless.

No such thing as murder in anarchy.

I presume this is how its intended to work.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Oh yeah.. and they didn't make PowerPlay an exception. How nice of them.

I'm not sure that's wrong though. The PF isn't aligned to any of the powers, so to the PF a murder is a murder is a murder.

 

[Elpapo]

Do me a favour: in your head construct a scenario where you are driving to work, doing 60 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.

You hit a pedestrian that stepped into the road and kill them.

You tell the policeman "It's fine, I'm not to blame because they definitely stepped into the road with intent, and I only forgot I was speeding"

Now tell the class how that plays out IRL

...if you have an agenda against general crime/punishment please raise it elsewhere. OP wanted to explore some important points raised around something specifically, and you're just confusing it. And if you want to avoid CMDR B's fate, kill your speed - not your credit balance.

Not knowing much about rules within game, eh?

Lol, I was talkin about how rules works within game itself, such IRL scenarios aint got anything with it at first place, so do me a favor: dont bother pls.

Besides all what I did mention about so far, it is all related within "How murder works" along consequences directly related to it. If this got you confused, then its your problem.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

YOu have the ability to disable report crimes against me. So consensual PvP i would assume is handled this way.

 

[b101uk]

Do me a favour: in your head construct a scenario where you are driving to work, doing 60 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.

You hit a pedestrian that stepped into the road and kill them.

You tell the policeman "It's fine, I'm not to blame because they definitely stepped into the road with intent, and I only forgot I was speeding"

Now tell the class how that plays out IRL

...if you have an agenda against general crime/punishment please raise it elsewhere. OP wanted to explore some important points raised around something specifically, and you're just confusing it. And if you want to avoid CMDR B's fate, kill your speed - not your credit balance.

why not try

"in your head construct a scenario where you are driving to work, doing 60.01 MPH in a 60 MPH zone." etc etc

because as far as ED is concerned, that extra 0.01m/s makes things your fault even though it is clearly still saying 100m/s, despite the fact that the station ATC tells you to give way for larger ships, and makes no effort in punishing pilots who enter a pattern out of place be they dumb NPC or players who deliberately ram other ships.

 

[StiTch]

If this got you confused, then its your problem.

I'm confused because my parrot has a better grasp of grammar than you do.

But yeah, if you're going to cry because the game doesn't bend itself to save your bacon when you mess up, then I will indeed - as you put it - not bother. I'd be quite happy to leave you crying in the corner, just stop doing it out loud where others can hear you. They're trying to have a discussion about relevant things.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Murder is - you know that info message that tells you you've gained a Bounty for Murder? It's that.

I don't really see this doing anything to curb miscreant murder-hobo behavior, as these... peopleoids only pick fights where the odds are overwhelmingly in their favor anyways.
And with the cap on player bounty claims, there's not as much incentive for people to hunt them down either.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Nah, it means that if you murder someone while you are in a 'vette, and jump in a SuiSidey to clear your bounty, you will be hit by a charge assumedly making up the difference in rebuy.

Basically, no more using a sidey to clear bounties on the cheap.

1. Buy disposable Suicidewinder
2. Get blown up
3. Do not rebuy Suicidewinder, forfeit it instead.
4. Get sent back to your starter system in Freewinder.
5. Summon better ship or fly Freewinder to location of better ship.
6. Resume troglodyte behavior.

 

[StiTch]

1. Buy disposable Suicidewinder
2. Get blown up
3. Do not rebuy Suicidewinder, forfeit it instead.
4. Get sent back to your starter system in Freewinder.
5. Summon better ship or fly Freewinder to location of better ship.
6. Resume troglodyte behavior.

Ship Rebuy Penalty – When a player commits the crime of murder (PvP only), an additional cost is added if they swap to a less expensive ship before paying legal costs during the rebuy flow

That said, I'm actually of the opinion that this isn't a smart move. How many times have we seen FD develop an idea over time with our input (karma in this case) then in a release make a completely different snap decision that doesn't seem to be tested, based on logic, or do the job it was intended to?

I don't believe this was thought through or properly tested, don't believe it will resolve the issue, and don't believe it's the right answer by a long shot.

So basically I'm with you anyway. They need to think this crap through properly.

 

[CMDR_Elver]

Yeah frontier have their logic all back to front again with C&P! Like with capping bounty claims. Credit where credits due having some sort of system involving rebuys and the Pilots Fed and bounties is a step in the right direction.

Illegitimate ship destructions regarding the PF (murder) should relate to attacking (first to fire) a clean ship/cmdr, i.e. without a bounty on their head and with report crimes on.

In CZ or if both cmdrs are signed to power should be fair game (or legitimate).

If attacked and you defend yourself this should be legitimate.

Attacking a CMDR with a PF bounty in an anarchy should be legitimate.

Attacking a player without a bounty in an anarchy should illegitimate with regards to the PF. Local law enforcement does not exist in these systems.

Paying out for a rebuy should be on the ship you were destroyed in. But the amount of rebuy should depend on a PF rep and claim rate.

Bounties claimed should equal that of the ship that was destroyed. This amount should be wiped of the total PF bounty pot. Anything left still means there is a bounty on your head. This does not go with time. I don't think the new changes will last for long before they're found out. Hopefully it can be properly sorted out for season 3.

 

[Elpapo]

I'm confused because my parrot has a better grasp of grammar than you do.

But yeah, if you're going to cry because the game doesn't bend itself to save your bacon when you mess up, then I will indeed - as you put it - not bother. I'd be quite happy to leave you crying in the corner, just stop doing it out loud where others can hear you. They're trying to have a discussion about relevant things.

Oh my, now you are being a meanie, dont ya? Too bad, English was never my native, and I dont give a **** what other thinks about my grammar btw.

Such salt, lol. As if I would feel such negative emotion because someone killed me. Lol, I am not you.

Just for you to know, I was never at side of "victims" of ealier mentioned problem, but rather the opposite.

Yep, this means I know how "bend" game rules into my advantage, and belive me, many like you saw thier rebuys because of that.

I never failed to mess up anyway by docking, as currently nobody is able to take me out by using that exploit, as notorius killer such as myself, Im fully aware of any possible method to kill. And if someone would take me out, only thing I would feel at that point, is admire that they where able to kill me via any means.

Still, I can take any advantage of newly solutions of C&P against anyone, if wanted do so, much to my heart content, as its clear as day for me, all flaws that comes with it.

I guess its time to end up this pointless discussion, as pleb like you its not worth of my time. [haha]

 

[Tataboj]

So this means, that I can grief big3 ships with my sidewinder and get no penalty?

I'd love to see you grief an Anaconda with a Sidewinder.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I'd love to see you grief an Anaconda with a Sidewinder.

If the 'Conda is doing more than 100 close to a station and the Sidey rams it?

 

[Jack Schitt]

Murder is - you know that info message that tells you you've gained a Bounty for Murder? It's that.

Bingo. All else is semantics. If you see that message and the victim was a CMDR, expect those extra mechanics to kick in.

 

[XanderVekk]

So, will the new PF bounty/rebuy leave you with a negative cash balance?

Otherwise, what's to stop someone from just sinking all of their cash into ridiculously expensive modules, then doing the suicidewinder thing?

 

[Andovar]

Oh yeah.. and they didn't make PowerPlay an exception. How nice of them.

Well, we don't exactly know that for sure yet, do we?
To me it would make the most sense if you're currently flagged as either wanted or hostile, then you're free game.
Otherwise it's considered 'PvP murder', and they get the pilots federation bounty. (assuming you have report crimes turned on)

 

[Elpapo]

I'd love to see you grief an Anaconda with a Sidewinder.

If the 'Conda is doing more than 100 close to a station and the Sidey rams it?

This is how. ^

In normal fight, assuming if my victim would not run away, after 2-3 hrs I would be able to do that. This is where long range weps say hello. Thing is, no sane cmdr will stay around that long for a fight, unless it was arranged.

 

[Tataboj]

If the 'Conda is doing more than 100 close to a station and the Sidey rams it?

That's just the stupidity of the 'Conda.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Ship Rebuy Penalty – When a player commits the crime of murder (PvP only), an additional cost is added if they swap to a less expensive ship before paying legal costs during the rebuy flow

That said, I'm actually of the opinion that this isn't a smart move. How many times have we seen FD develop an idea over time with our input (karma in this case) then in a release make a completely different snap decision that doesn't seem to be tested, based on logic, or do the job it was intended to?

I don't believe this was thought through or properly tested, don't believe it will resolve the issue, and don't believe it's the right answer by a long shot.

So basically I'm with you anyway. They need to think this crap through properly.

Dear gods, we're agreeing again.. lol Fortunately there is a scheduled Open beta for this, so I will investigate. Since this involves not paying the rebuy, those extra costs may well "fall off" when not paid, and a little jaunt back to Starter System Land is a small price in comparison to the rebuy of a Cutter, Corvette or Anaconda used to murder other players. Of course, to test this, I'll have to descend the evolutionary ladder and and actually kill a fellow tester, but I'm sure I can find a volunteer victim in test land.