Modes What is Sandro playing at?

[Robert Maynard]

So what you're telling me IS your purchase date is more important and you have no concerns that content has been walled off from me because my gameplay means less than nothing in comparison to your gameplay in a game feature that you have no desire to partake in?

I did not say that. Frontier made a decision to offer the ship to those who purchased at particular times on PC and XB1.

Now that we have established where we are starting from. I would like to circle back to my last point I made when I asked if I am allowed to be just as unreasonable as you are; can we bring back planet scan stacking missions, massacre stacking missions, suicidwinders, etc. These were all included in the game frontier sold me and promised I was receiving upon purchase. Some of these were from free updates that FDev changed. I demand they reconsider and fix them to how they were originally at MY purchase date. If not I demand a full refund even tho I have a full 1000 hours, which I realize is much less than those we have established are much more important than I am.

You'd have to ask Frontier if they wanted to re-introduce those "features" to the game.

 

[Curvemn17]

I did not say that. Frontier made a decision to offer the ship to those who purchased at particular times on PC and XB1.



You'd have to ask Frontier if they wanted to re-introduce those "features" to the game.

Well see you did tell me your gameplay is more important than mine. You are telling me to go run to dad with my problems; yet you wont back me up because you dont care since that's just how it was for you. If you were honest with yourself and admitted that in reality my gameplay means nothing to you then you would be able to admit that you dont care if I have access to VR or the Cobra.

Yet I go running to dad all the time about features when it comes to making PP in open and you have repeatedly "quoted" me down in my place. Hmmm, seems we have a double standard.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well see you did tell me your gameplay is more important than mine.

Where? Quote the relevant section, please.

 

[Curvemn17]

Where? Quote the relevant section, please.

By telling me to go ask frontier about the MKIV which has been done, exactly 23 pages worth and lo and behold not one comment. Yet any thread created about open/solo or the like and it is like a moth to the flame. I am not certain you have missed the chance to comment on any of them. Then reread your comments here and the insinuation is apparent.

You would rather not support us in our quest for a cobra. Therefore, I am left to surmise you feel your gameplay is more important than mine.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/314330-Will-PS4-get-the-Cobra-Mk-IV/page23

 

[Han_Zen]

We all know what Sandro is playing at. He is lead designer and has a long list of features that he wants in the game.
He knows there is not a single game play element in ED, where PvP has any effect or impact. This is something he wants to mend, without impacting the ETAs on his list of features.
He has therfore asked the community If it’s ok to use PP as a PvP vehicle.
It’s the cheapest fix available. PP has teams and is fully player driven. The framework is in place.

The reason for giving PvP a a platform, is probably to chanel some of the negative energy into more productive forms.

Sandro wants to make open a better place for both PvE and PvP, without messing with the development schedule.

I’m not a religious man and I aplaude Sandro for thinking practical, in stead of riding holy principals.

 

[withnail]

Have you all got your head around the fact that it won't affect you?

 

[Curvemn17]

Have you all got your head around the fact that it won't affect you?

Nope

 

[Dietger]

We all know what Sandro is playing at. He is lead designer and has a long list of features that he wants in the game.
He knows there is not a single game play element in ED, where PvP has any effect or impact. This is something he wants to mend, without impacting the ETAs on his list of features.
He has therfore asked the community If it’s ok to use PP as a PvP vehicle.
It’s the cheapest fix available. PP has teams and is fully player driven. The framework is in place.

The reason for giving PvP a a platform, is probably to chanel some of the negative energy into more productive forms.

Sandro wants to make open a better place for both PvE and PvP, without messing with the development schedule.

I’m not a religious man and I aplaude Sandro for thinking practical, in stead of riding holy principals.

Couldn't agree more.
PP into Open will brake nobodies neck, its a good thing and well overdue.

 

[Robert Maynard]

We all know what Sandro is playing at. He is lead designer and has a long list of features that he wants in the game.
He knows there is not a single game play element in ED, where PvP has any effect or impact. This is something he wants to mend, without impacting the ETAs on his list of features.
He has therfore asked the community If it’s ok to use PP as a PvP vehicle.
It’s the cheapest fix available. PP has teams and is fully player driven. The framework is in place.

The reason for giving PvP a a platform, is probably to chanel some of the negative energy into more productive forms.

Sandro wants to make open a better place for both PvE and PvP, without messing with the development schedule.

I’m not a religious man and I aplaude Sandro for thinking practical, in stead of riding holy principals.

You know, you could well be on to something here....

Sadly, the fact that in crafting the initial proposal he did not think to include a statement regarding the fact that the Open only change would not be considered for the BGS or other game features led to speculation / demands that it would be considered for those. The clarification came some time later - once the virtual slippery slope had been well greased.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Have you all got your head around the fact that it won't affect you?

That remains to be seen, if and when the potential change is made. As Sandro has indicated, it's far from a done deal.

Then, once implemented, it remains to be seen whether Open only PowerPlay adversely affects the BGS that everyone shares.

 

[withnail]

It won't affect you.

Mountains out of mole hills.

 

[Riverside]

Until those 'folks' misuse the modes and wreck Powerplay, thats why this choice has been given to us now.

Just catching up with the thread & most of what I would want to say has been said by others but this point has not been addressed.

I can understand the issue with Open PPers being frustrated with group/solo PPers. I don't think it's entirely reasonable but certainly there is a believably significant chunk of work performed cynically in groups/solo.

However I believe a significant sub-set (possibly the majority) of self-described PvP players have also cynically gone through the powers a month at a time to obtain the cool PP toys like Prismatic shields, and my understanding from the few who have been candid is that their work to obtain these is commonly done in solo.

So the 'misuse' of powerplay has not only come from the 'never play is open' lot.

We all know what Sandro is playing at. He is lead designer and has a long list of features that he wants in the game.
He knows there is not a single game play element in ED, where PvP has any effect or impact. This is something he wants to mend, without impacting the ETAs on his list of features.
He has therfore asked the community If it’s ok to use PP as a PvP vehicle.
It’s the cheapest fix available. PP has teams and is fully player driven. The framework is in place.

The reason for giving PvP a a platform, is probably to chanel some of the negative energy into more productive forms.

Sandro wants to make open a better place for both PvE and PvP, without messing with the development schedule.

I’m not a religious man and I aplaude Sandro for thinking practical, in stead of riding holy principals.

I agree with this assessment. This change is not so much about power play as it is about giving PvP some meaning. I think the benefits outweigh the cost, time will tell if it improves the game overall.

 

[Roybe]

Evening Gentlemen.

Whether, PvP in Open wrecks Elite, whether it is mode hopping, or module shoppers, if either PvEer Sissies are to blame, or PvP psychopaths, all up to your preferences.
What, however IS of importance, Sammarco&Frontier are questioning the trinity, first time in many years the single shared galaxy, pan modules interchangeable game modes are being under consideration.

Its a sensation.




Talk about that. What is Sammarco playing at? Please tell me.

Any changes to PP are going to be superficial at best, a change in the perception of players that is weak at best. You are correct, this is a hand grenade thrown in the forums, but to what end...this is my point in creating this thread. No way does this play out to the benefit of Frontier...they are going to anger their game player base with any decision they make.

I am questioning his, and really the design teams motives in this. What are they trying to do? There is not good outcome to this, regardless of the decision made. PVP people will be more unhappy if they turn their back on this after all this, part of the Solo/PVE crowd will walk away from this if they go ahead with it...and if they keep moving ahead with new content that gets mode locked.

So let me understand this, PowerPlay was available at the very launch of the game or was it a feature that was added at a later date after launch as part of an update? Please inform me here

Added at a later date, but so close to start of the game, most folks realize is was a feature from the early part of the design phase.

Hear him hear him!

On top of this, Frontier by now is in favor of Open, musing about to over a first considerable premium, exclusive mode content. No not just anything, but a well established part of Elite's gameplay.




Why would they do this? Why would they want this?

They have never been against Open...they just kept the gameplay available to all players regardless who they wanted to play with...as equal as could be as much as possible. What they were against, and it appears they still are, is for hegemonic control of space to come down to player groups.

My question exactly. Open only PP is going to be a failure for the PVP folks. There's no two ways around this. The only difference to having it Open locked is that it changes the perception of what can be done...not really what is going to be.

The meeting of other players for any reason in this game is pretty borked. If a PVP player feels vindicated because they can stop less than 1% of merit movement...then they have a weak sense of vindication.

What I can see in this, is that although PP PVP will fail, it does give FDev the thin edge of the wedge to create new content (not changing BGS access, etc.) that will ignore the Solo/PrivateMode/PVE crowd, and allow them to create a model for mode locked future content. How that will play out, and how that would change Open, for those that do not want to PVP...will be another discussion to have at that time.

 

[Curvemn17]

Any changes to PP are going to be superficial at best, a change in the perception of players that is weak at best. You are correct, this is a hand grenade thrown in the forums, but to what end...this is my point in creating this thread. No way does this play out to the benefit of Frontier...they are going to anger their game player base with any decision they make.

I am questioning his, and really the design teams motives in this. What are they trying to do? There is not good outcome to this, regardless of the decision made. PVP people will be more unhappy if they turn their back on this after all this, part of the Solo/PVE crowd will walk away from this if they go ahead with it...and if they keep moving ahead with new content that gets mode locked.



Added at a later date, but so close to start of the game, most folks realize is was a feature from the early part of the design phase.



They have never been against Open...they just kept the gameplay available to all players regardless who they wanted to play with...as equal as could be as much as possible. What they were against, and it appears they still are, is for hegemonic control of space to come down to player groups.

My question exactly. Open only PP is going to be a failure for the PVP folks. There's no two ways around this. The only difference to having it Open locked is that it changes the perception of what can be done...not really what is going to be.

The meeting of other players for any reason in this game is pretty borked. If a PVP player feels vindicated because they can stop less than 1% of merit movement...then they have a weak sense of vindication.

What I can see in this, is that although PP PVP will fail, it does give FDev the thin edge of the wedge to create new content (not changing BGS access, etc.) that will ignore the Solo/PrivateMode/PVE crowd, and allow them to create a model for mode locked future content. How that will play out, and how that would change Open, for those that do not want to PVP...will be another discussion to have at that time.

I think you fail to realize it’s not all about the PVP. What has everyone excited is the changes in conjunction with the open only. For example, the ability to UM past 100% now. The lessening of the BGS ethos impact. The potential for systems to change hands more frequently with proposed design changes. The chance to finally combat 5c once and for all. 5c is the reason so many ask for open only. The PvP aspect is exciting, but as you say it won’t have an ungodly impact on PP. the hope that bottlenecking forts being delivered could create more interesting gameplay VS who is better at making a spreadsheet. So why would that be a colossal failure?

 

[Roybe]

I think you fail to realize it’s not all about the PVP. What has everyone excited is the changes in conjunction with the open only. For example, the ability to UM past 100% now. The lessening of the BGS ethos impact. The potential for systems to change hands more frequently with proposed design changes. The chance to finally combat 5c once and for all. 5c is the reason so many ask for open only. The PvP aspect is exciting, but as you say it won’t have an ungodly impact on PP. the hope that bottlenecking forts being delivered could create more interesting gameplay VS who is better at making a spreadsheet. So why would that be a colossal failure?

How is Open only going to change this? Any 'bottlenecking' is going to be marginal. All this does is make people feel better..changes their perception, if you will, that they can fight the salmon running up stream.

The PP people think like this:

Spoiler

When the numbers against them are like this:

Spoiler

No matter how many players are stopped and killed in PP, their number is minor relative to the PVP player...or the PP player that wants to stop 5c. It just changes the game in minor ways. And fails to repair the real problems with the game. How do you make a PVE token collection game relevant to people who do not get to collect PVE tokens? And not remove gameplay for the people that always were able to collect those PVE tokens?

 

[Curvemn17]

How is Open only going to change this? Any 'bottlenecking' is going to be marginal. All this does is make people feel better..changes their perception, if you will, that they can fight the salmon running up stream.

The PP people think like this:



When the numbers against them are like this:



No matter how many players are stopped and killed in PP, their number is minor relative to the PVP player...or the PP player that wants to stop 5c.

Well let’s see::
Recently had a faction war and we had them bottlenecks at their station which kept CZ bonds from being turned in. So if the changes happen and all powers have to return to their home station to hand in forts it makes bottlenecking very effective. Use to be it really only took one cmdr to fort a few systems or more each week.

It effectively cuts down th impact bots have had on PP.

Less conflict with PMF in your systems so you can focus your efforts on other powers. A dynamic expansion system so systems change hands. If your system is being UM then you can send ships after the UM so they don’t turmoil you.

The list goes on. You really should stop viewing this as a PVP conversation and more as a PP conversation since that’s what it is. Your analogy begs the question on how involved you have been in PowerPlay?

 

[bigity]

You know, you could well be on to something here....

Sadly, the fact that in crafting the initial proposal he did not think to include a statement regarding the fact that the Open only change would not be considered for the BGS or other game features led to speculation / demands that it would be considered for those. The clarification came some time later - once the virtual slippery slope had been well greased.

Every post he makes does not have to conform to lowest common denominator of the 'sky is falling' forum mods/posters who are triggered by the word 'Open' or 'PvP'.

 

[Mouse]

Have you all got your head around the fact that it won't affect you?

When it goes from all 3 modes can influence BGS and powers to 3 modes influencing BGS but 1 mode influencing powers... it does affect us.

 

[Dietger]

Every post he makes does not have to conform to lowest common denominator of the 'sky is falling' forum mods/posters who are triggered by the word 'Open' or 'PvP'.

Can't Rep you more.

We'll see with what an argumentation our beloved PvEer come up with, since it seems their beloved trinity is gonna fall and on top of that, unnecessary, unwanted, PvP gets a new home, crashing into PP. Since some here not even interested in the matter, I am wondering as to why all the hassle was made in the first place?

Since we are talking here about What is Sandro playing at? As of being the "topic" I encourage everyone here, to muse about WHY. You don't like the consequences? Shy away of its indication? Don't want to be left alone in your Private Groups? Feel lonely in Solo? Being at a loss?

The cure is Open.

Sammarco seems ready to take an immense risk, willing to abandon the underlying fundamental ethos, pan-modular-modes(Robert Maynard). Want to comment on that Maynard? Remember the dead fish slapped around PvP heads was, as to why PvP is not fundamental nor needed or even wanted? Not even in context? Now, Sammarco betrothed PP an unloved step child in Elite and uncle PvP in Open - a marriage of three. If that's not a surprise. No, not Open-PvE makes an appearance - even worth, more "gankers" and "griefers" are being herded into Open.

PvE in Elite in its all importance seems to be fine. PP might be starting a metamorphosis soon. Into what exactly? We don't know jet. What ever may accrue, PvP in Open will be a part of it, a big one mind you.

 

[withnail]

When it goes from all 3 modes can influence BGS and powers to 3 modes influencing BGS but 1 mode influencing powers... it does affect us.

You will need to explain that as, on the face of it, that statement is incorrect.

When you answer, tell us what power you are pledged to and how many merits you have earned in the last month.