What is up with AI and the outrageous maneuvering?

[Solidus_2845]

I feel like throttle is killing me. Right now I left my bumpers for throttle. Should this be different?
Right stick is roll and pitch. Left stick is yaw and vertical thrust. Paddles are lateral thrust. Throttle up is right bumper, throttle down is left bumper. Continuous setting.

 

[Captain Willard]

WOW My bad.
Your'e flying a console.
Good luck with that.

 

[Morbad]

I feel like throttle is killing me. Right now I left my bumpers for throttle. Should this be different?
Right stick is roll and pitch. Left stick is yaw and vertical thrust. Paddles are lateral thrust. Throttle up is right bumper, throttle down is left bumper. Continuous setting.

I know there are quite a few people that do quite well with a pad, better than I'd have though possible if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Maybe Cknarf or someone else can provide some insight to how they have their throttle controls mapped.

WOW My bad.
Your'e flying a console.
Good luck with that.

Yeah, I didn't even see that this was the Xbox forum at first, I was just clicking titles in the most recent activity list.

Anyway, there are plenty of great players on consoles, so the platform isn't an insurmountable hurdle.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Sarah J did that once before. The salt pile was immense.

I'd be happy if they toned down by how much they are bullet sponges in CZ while making the AI at the high end more compentent.

 

[Ipecac]

What I've been working on improving is the timing of my FAoff, boost and turn.

Jousting I'll boost right before I pass them, hit FA off, cut throttle and turn as soon as I pass. I seem to get the best turning radius this way. As soon as I start turning I throw all my pipes to engines, hit the throttle and boost again as soon as I can.

The other bit is the vertical thrust. I will push up or down as I'm coming around that helps me get the angle on them and makes their turn come short.

I am now flying a Fer-de-lance and I really like it.

 

[Solidus_2845]

I posted a video of my first run in a Dangerous Incursion training. I'm definitely more than capable of these rather basic maneuvers. Judging by the last few posts, though, it seems trying to go any farther on a console gamepad is going to be a hurdle by itself. I saw those last few videos you all were posting and immediately saw it was PC, full dual stick setup stuff. The throttle control immediately popped out on the HUD and I thought "Well, ."

 

[Dutchman141]

Or get a Corvette, problem solved.

I'll get my coat.......

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Console players are perfectly capable of advanced maneuvering, our aim with lasers might just be a little twitchy lol. There’s a few PC guys out there with gamepads, so don’t let that get you down.

It’s always weird trying to remember my stick controls offhand, because I rarely think about it. It’s just muscle memory anymore lol.

I know for sure that I have pitch/roll on the same (left?)stick, airplane style. It just feels natural to me. The other (right?) stick is yaw/vertical thrust.

My throttle controls are completely default, still on the bumpers.

I know its common for some PvP guys to switch throttle to the triggers, but I can think of a few guys who are much better pilots than I am that use the default as well.

As mentioned before, laterals are stick clicks, which are bound to the paddles. Not necessary, but it makes it more comfortable.

I’ve heard some people say their sticks are set up ‘FPS style’, says it helps them aim. They’re good pilots, but I’m not brave enough to change to something so radically different from what is now second nature lol.

There are some weirder controller mappings out there, but I won’t cover those, because I don’t use them.

Next time I sign on, I might get a video for you against an NPC target.

Oh, and if you ever wanna ask some of the Xbox PvP guys direct about those unorthodox controls, a good number of them can be found in my discord server. Link below if you wanted it. They could explain much easier than I could.

 

[tolm]

I’m very surprised to hear that NPCs DON’T use FA-Off on this thread ...

I routinely come up against Dangerous+ NPCs who can dump an Anaconda round faster than I can flip in an FDL or Mamba. Based on ship stats, that simply shouldn’t be possible, right? But they just flip it round it’s centre of gravity to face me. Every. Single. Time.

Now, with adventurous throttle use, up/down thrusters and/or (in extreme cases) use of FA-Off ... I don’t have an issue killing these folks (and I have plenty of shields to keep me alive) but they certainly seem to be stretching the bounds of what is possible.

Now, I’m on PS4. Are the ships simply more agile than it’s possible to exploit on a console controller?

I agree that lower level AI is trivial. I took out a Master Anaconda in my mining Krait II which just has a couple of pulse lasers for defence! But higher levels certainly seem challenging: yet to successfully compete a Wing Assassination or Wetwork mission - even in a significantly engineered ship - as I simply can’t absorb the firepower from a wing of 6 or 7 ships long enough to take the targets down.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Yeah, I’d advise against soloing wing assassinations in a vanilla ship, and even some engineered ones.

The support ships really are the problem in that situation. Large ships are great for this, or mediums with plasma or frag loadouts. Get in, dump the load and get out lol.

 

[Troopi]

Boost+strafe in circles while approaching the target can help to dodge its firepower, specially rails and plasmas. Do it fullspeed, wait and maneuver under the enemy. He will likely boost to do another joust, and you must pitch+thrust up while pressing boost to keep at its tail. He will strafe away and turn to you, but his fire solution time will be too short. The trick is reducing his time on target and increase yours. With some NPC's, you just can't avoid jousting.
Another option is to engineer a fast ship with bi-weave shields, and snipe with long target guns, while keeping beyond the 4km range.

 

[Solidus_2845]

CKNarf, my controls are exactly like yours, then. (I do think you have L and R sticks mixed, unless you're left handed?) Right hand is usually on the main control surfaces, left on throttle/collective for real aircraft, so it's natural for right thumb to be on pitch/roll control surfaces. I have gotten a LOT of good practice in doing those Challenge simulations. I'll keep working at it, and accept that it will be a battle for every high rank ship.

Troopi, I have found that I have been nowhere near aggressive enough in my boost practices. My Vulture in it's early engineer state can perma boost at 3 pips, which I've not been utilizing at all. It's a game changer for thrusters.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Reverse the sticks for preference, regardless, we have pitch/roll on one stick, so still pretty close.

In smaller ships, Using boost and positioning is more important than anything. You want to do everything you can to avoid being in front of an enemy.

After a head on pass, you want to get your nose back on them before they get theirs on you. Always try to close that gap, even if this means initiating a turn just as you are about to pass.

Given too much space, they’ll be facing you again in no time. You don’t want to be face to face with an Anaconda for any period of time. If you can get out of their line of fire before they get missile lock, you’re doing great.

Now even if you can’t stay directly behind them the whole time, being slightly above, below, or off to the side of them is better than nothing.

If you can spam boost, that’s great. Close that gap. You shouldn’t be far outside of 1-1.5km for an extended period in a Vulture if you can help it.

 

[Troopi]

Troopi, I have found that I have been nowhere near aggressive enough in my boost practices. My Vulture in it's early engineer state can perma boost at 3 pips, which I've not been utilizing at all. It's a game changer for thrusters.

People tend to forget that thrusting in one direction and pressing boost makes a huge difference in the direction change. Boost is not only for the main engines, it will be redirected to thrusters if they are used. You can even trick with proper timing, starting with a lateral thrust, boosting, and while the boost is in effect pressing another direction. (this can help against ramming)

 

[Solidus_2845]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the thread and responses. I pretty much had a huge breakthrough tonight because of something someone here said.
"Just keep throttle full and perma boost," he said. I've been over thinking the maneuvering. Just keep the boosts going, alternate with quick stick taps letting that boost keep me going forward and diverting it to thrusters. I found my other problem was just hanging on the vertical thrust, not letting me have forward momentum to stick to enemies.

I ground out my G3 power plant and distributor today, superconductors on those. I farmed a hazres all night with 3 pips engine, 3 pips weapons, just doing exactly what I saw in the video's (especially with condas!). The game is officially on, now.

I am running 2 3C beams that now have G3 Sturdy and thermal conduit. It's like it was built for this ship. Those lasers and perma boost keep me right at 100%ish heat; So no damage to me, but the heat increases beam damage. The armor piercing from sturdy mod lets me cut into power plants and bring down condas and pythons that still have 20-30% hull. I am thoroughly digging this now. I'm so glad I didn't give up on "The Jeep!"

She was named after my jeep. It's a love/hate relationship for sure, but I never quite give up on her!

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

That’s great to hear, man. We knew you had it in you.

Feel free to drop your GT if you ever wanna wing up and go bludgeon stuff with Vultures.

 

[Troopi]

Glad you found your way, Commander. Hope you don't point those big-fat-hot-katanas at my hull. O7

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

People said NPCs were too easy. FD made NPCs harder.

And forgot to balance it for vanilla players.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

“Well, if you haven’t engineered by now, that’s your problem. Seriously, what have you been doing for the past few years? Taking screenshots of an Asp in solo?”

“...I’ve been playing six hours.”

“Oh. Sucks to suck lmaoooooooooooooo.”

 

[KarmaCop]

That is what I do, if you find me I'm usually in a shieldless DBS. Heavily engineered of course, but I use evasion well enough that I don't need shields against NPCs.
I constantly boost out of weapons fire, and I use chaff (assigned to X+LB so I don't use a fire group or fire more than one chaff at a time).
If you can record a video (Big shiny X button > > capture options > 'record what happened' and they'll appear on xboxdvr as mentioned above) we can take a look.

I'm a new DBS pilot (not brave or competent enough to go shieldless though!); could you post a recent vid showing some of the aforementioned techniques / fights as I'm suffering the same issues as the OP - & unlike the OP, I haven't had my 'Eureka' moment yet - I've always believed a picture paints a thousand words & a vid paints a million!

If anyone else has some good examples showing fixed weapons (rail guns would be nice since this is my current choice) on a DBS or similar with the extant NPCs to get an idea of what should be attainable with practise, that'd be great too.