What it might take to colonise between the Bubble and Colonia

[Kira Goto]

The systems are Thargoid 'Controlled' as per the Galaxy map, I understand that they are not 'Control' systems as per the Invasion rules.
They have not always been there, though of course they do pre-date the recent Titan conflicts, which have been something of a distraction from dealing with the existing menace in the Pleiades and Witch Head.

In all honesty, I'm just really curious about whether the colonization system will recognise those systems as already being 'colonised' and so not allow a player to take them on.

Oh, I see which ones you mean. The ones with the crashed motherships (presumably) of the first war which are marked as "Thargoid" in allegiance. I guess that's something you could as well do while heading toward the Pleiades, though it would still be a few weeks before you'd reach the closest one.

If people are allowed I suspect the spires and Titan wrecks are also going to be prime targets for colonizing (one could roleplay installing research facilities near them). My curiosity would more be what happens if the Thargoids were to return to them...

 

[yianniv]

First, this is my opinion, not facts.

Add to the conversation, but let's not argue about things. This is meant to focus people into achieving a goal: a line of stations between the Bubble and Colonia.

So my first thought is: We'd have to get organised. This means communicating as a group. You might say that won't happen, too many will be trying to achieve things for themselves and not for a group trying to achieve a goal, but there have been many such groups already. The successful ones got organised.

This means: People would have to put the needs of the goal above their wants and desires. I know already I will want a system myself, and I am sure I will get there, but if I were part of a group whose goal was a line of stations between the Bubble and Colonia, I'd have to accept and agree to put the needs of the goal above my wants. Not in a strict sense, but if you want to help achieve this goal, you can't have a conflict of interest. For example, there would have to be a number of systems colonised, and if you're gathering materials to colonise your own system, you can't easily gather materials to contribute to colonising the next system in the line.

People would have to be willing to help those helping in the goal. There should be a benefit to helping, whether that's getting a commander back on their feet if they crash and respawn or if after helping others or the goal, decide they want a system. It should be ok to help them in return for them helping achieve the goal. Community spirit is important, and helping others needs to be a part of it.

Everyone helping gets a system in the line between the bubble and Colonia. If you're helping, and others are also helping, we'd need people to claim systems. If you haven't yet claimed a system, maybe there's an organised queue or something, when it's your turn (or something), you claim the next system, and this group trying to colonise a line to Colonia, then all help you get your system colonised and built. Then when it's done, you carry on helping someone else claim and colonise the next system. Ideally, every person in the group helping, has at least one system claimed in the line. This is part of all of us helping each other.

It should be ok if people want to or need to drop out of helping. I think this speaks for itself. It's basically don't judge others and don't think badly about them if they decide that's all they want to do. Thank them for their help, they are still a part of the Elite community and awesome in their own way.

And lastly I think, arguments should be avoided or quickly resolved. In-fighting won't help and would be counter-productive.

These are just my thoughts on what it would take to colonise a line to Colonia. I am sure everyone has ideas to achieve this.

What this endeavour really needs is medicine to progress in such a degree that human life expectancy is substantially prolonged, at several decades at least. It's the only way a player will live to see their efforts of joining bubble and Colonia bear fruits, with the 10ly initial limit.

 

[ozrix84]

No, we do know more. We know that they expect it to be achievable by a lone commander within 4 weeks, because that's when the fail-state occurs.
At worst that's going to be 4-weeks for the 'average' commander in terms of playtime and equipment, so not min-max hauling in a Cutter 8-hours a day, more like hauling in a sub-optimal Python a few hours per week.
(80 hours might be the sort of times we're looking at when the 1st commander completes it using a Sidewinder, which someone surely will.)

The 'huge undertaking' seems more related to the building up the system after that, which isn't time-gated and so has much more potential to be time-consuming and 'grindy'.

So the 4 week fail state is our shiny beacon of clarity? Fair enough, but let’s address that for a moment. Sure, a lone commander might be able to scrape by in those 4 weeks with suboptimal gear and casual playtime, but we’re still operating on assumptions about what ‘achievable’ actually means. After all, Frontier's idea of 'average' effort has a habit of creeping into grindfest territory.

And let’s not forget the glorious outlier you mention - the Sidewinder colonizer. While I’m sure the meme commander hauling materials in a glorified space tin can will earn their place in the history books, I doubt most players will find the reality of hauling in a Python for 4 weeks any less soul-crushing. ‘Huge undertaking’ or not, I’d wager the grind will be felt long before we get to the supposedly time-optional ‘building up the system’ phase.

So yes, we may know a little more than nothing - but let’s not mistake vague timelines and developer expectations for a free pass on what still looks like one of the biggest logistical slogs the game has ever cooked up.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

So the 4 week fail state is our shiny beacon of clarity? Fair enough, but let’s address that for a moment. Sure, a lone commander might be able to scrape by in those 4 weeks with suboptimal gear and casual playtime, but we’re still operating on assumptions about what ‘achievable’ actually means. After all, Frontier's idea of 'average' effort has a habit of creeping into grindfest territory.

So yes, we may know a little more than nothing - but let’s not mistake vague timelines and developer expectations for a free pass on what still looks like one of the biggest logistical slogs the game has ever cooked up.

I thought it was "anyone's guess", rather than definitely the most punishing slog to ever exist in video games? Seems someone's got out the wrong side of bed today.

4 weeks isn't a "vague timeline", it's a highly specific one. I think an average (I didn't say "casual") Commander will be able to do more than "scrape by" in that amount of time. The time-limit is intended to be readily achievable, and the stated goal of the 4-week limit is only there to cut out people that claim a system and then don't bother with it again, not to trip-up people actively playing the game.

If you don't like trade/hauling then Colonisation isn't going to be the gameplay-loop for you. If you feel any part of the game is a 'grind' or a 'slog' then do something else, you aren't being forced to participate.

 

[Tifu]

Sorry, must have missed it - did FD ever say a lone commander can wrap up the setup of a colony all by himself in 4 weeks of casual play time?

 

[Mr Lindsay]

Sorry, must have missed it - did FD ever say a lone commander can wrap up the setup of a colony all by himself in 4 weeks of casual play time?

No. I used the word 'average' and this was mis-quoted back as 'casual'.

Given that the 4-week time limit is intended to stop system blocking rather than being a challenge in itself (at least while we are still close to the bubble), along with their repeated stating of players taking multiple systems and wanting lots of players to engage with it, I think it's a fair assumption they are gearing for that to be within reach of an 'average' player inside that cut-off time.

What we think of as 'average' and FDev think of as 'average' may vary!

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Let’s talk about that multiplier for a second. The idea that we can simply multiply the active players by five assumes that every single one of them will colonize multiple systems before inevitably burning out. Where does this number come from? Nowhere - it’s pure speculation. And let’s be honest, how many players are actively involved in Powerplay, a more comparable system? The numbers are far below 20 000.

It's not every commander colonizes 5 systems, it's most commanders colonize 1 system maybe, but a few colonize dozens, hundreds? etc. That somehow averages out to 100k+ systems colonized (over time).

Median trade CG participant as mentioned earlier, is about a T9 per day ~700 tonnes.
So four weeks would be ~20,000 tonnes (about a carrier load interestingly) make of that what you will...

That's also often what it takes to get top 10% in CGs, the "multiply a number by a number" statistics work!

That is how I would estimate it too - the hauling effort should be top 10-25% in a hauling CG, over a few weeks if it's casual.

I think the first station in colonization might be a bit oversold by FDev, what if it's little more than an outpost with no refuel/repair and most other facilities so colonizing a system without doing the extra work to build a proper station there is just putting your name on it with extra hauling steps (like first discovery, DSS scan, first footfall or having your carrier in the system).

If this is true and just colonizing a system with the initial station doesn't drastically change the shape of the bubble and alter the course of human civilization for the people in 3300s then the number of initially colonized systems might not really matter.

What would matter is how many systems get built up and used or visited by players because they got colonized and no other reason. Quality over quantity.