What kind of support is there for a pvp flag which is raised automatically by certain activities?

MottiKhan

MottiKhan
I don't like the idea of a PvP flag any more than I like the idea of an Open PvE mode.

IMO, there are enough ways of avoiding player on player combat already. We don't need flags, timers or any other change to what we have.

ED should remain its own game and not become a clone of others.
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Aashenfox said:
Just throwing it out there as it would satisfy me, as a BGSer and semi serious pvper...

So, if your pvp flag is down, you cannot be interdicted by players, and your ship cannot be damaged by player weapons, munitions or rams from other player ships.

When your pvp flag is up, the game is exactly as it is today.

Your PvP flag is raised automatically when (this is just an initial list, we can expand on this and refine it :)):

Being in a hostile control system while pledged (we can expand this to include systems being expanded into, prep systems, whatever, I don't pp much you guys can discuss the specific circumstances)
Being wanted for player murder anywhere
Being in a populated Anarchy system
Entering a Combat Zone
Entering a Compromised Nav Beacon
Entering a HAZRES
Transporting anything from an approved list of 'piratable materials', which includes most of the high value stuff, OR transporting a total goods over a certain value.

That last one's contentious, but you can't kill pirating...maybe keep the list specific, anything of equal or higher value than platinum, for example. Like I say, this is rough, we can refine.

It needs to be fair to PvEers, but also to PvPers, compromises and all that.

Any support?
Click to expand...

World of warcraft did something like this.

When you attack other players or their assets/NPC's you were automatically flagged.

In Elite, there are so many ways to impact people by trading, dropping exploration bombs all sorts of stuff that doesnt require direct contact with each other. Even though you're trying influence each other and become controlling faction.

Its a lot deeper than what it seems. The closest we got is the Wanted Status if you've been killing clean ships or system authority.

While the Idea is great. This would also require people to all be in open. no other modes allowed to exist at all.

I don't think this would ever happen.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Aashenfox said:
Just throwing it out there as it would satisfy me, as a BGSer and semi serious pvper...

So, if your pvp flag is down, you cannot be interdicted by players, and your ship cannot be damaged by player weapons, munitions or rams from other player ships.

When your pvp flag is up, the game is exactly as it is today.

Your PvP flag is raised automatically when (this is just an initial list, we can expand on this and refine it :)):

Being in a hostile control system while pledged (we can expand this to include systems being expanded into, prep systems, whatever, I don't pp much you guys can discuss the specific circumstances)
Being wanted for player murder anywhere
Being in a populated Anarchy system
Entering a Combat Zone
Entering a Compromised Nav Beacon
Entering a HAZRES
Transporting anything from an approved list of 'piratable materials', which includes most of the high value stuff, OR transporting a total goods over a certain value.

That last one's contentious, but you can't kill pirating...maybe keep the list specific, anything of equal or higher value than platinum, for example. Like I say, this is rough, we can refine.

It needs to be fair to PvEers, but also to PvPers, compromises and all that.

Any support?
Click to expand...

As I mentioned elsewhere:

Ian Skippy said:
So you can go to another PMFs home system, murder the local security forces over and over in front of them and they cant attack you? Hmpf. :/ This is the issue I have with this stuff. Attacking a player in a high-sec system should result in your destruction, I dont mind that. But allowing people to smuggle in drugs and weapons to an opposing faction, murdering traders of a faction you support and all of that should come with the risk of being attacked by someone else. It seems very 'eat the cookie and have it too'...
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You should never be immune, but in certain places (high sec) it should be all but assured the attacker dies if he tries.
 
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Aashenfox said:
I'm alright at the moment, but I've got my flamesuit at the ready. ;)



I suppose it is similar now I think about it.
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if that is how GTAonline does it then that is not a good start... it is fair to say i hate GTA online, from my perspective - which i admit is biased - it is full of idiots running around randomly mucking about acting in a totally implausible manner.

back to elite.... I assume you would want this instead of the modes.? IF you want it as an option in open then, I do not have a dog in this race so i will abstain. (but if it happened i would keep an eye on it out of interest, it *may* get me back in open).

if it IS I suspect with a view of ditching the modes then personally am not a fan. Frankly i no longer trust human players to generally act in a plausible manner in keeping with a game universe. in ED the npcs are not great at it either but i continue to hope that they can be fixed to behave better. (bottom line i just dont like playing with random players sorry... and no offence meant ).

my gut feeling however in open there probably should not be flags and magical barriers etc.... Like i said tho, no dog in the race so if that is what folk want then that is cool with me.

it is why i currrently like PGs - when they work which is 99% of the time player damage is still on, so we still need to police fire and keep eye on surroundings, but its just that us pilots federation members stick together and do not attack each other, a bit like made men in the mafia... or is how i head canon it anyway

As an aside tho, and it was in kickstarter.... i do remember any player who assaulted another player was meant to be locked to the mode the crime was committed in for a set time to allow other players to get retribution. i do think this should be a thing.
 
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Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Un1k0rn said:
No.

Why?

All PvP is "sanctioned" in Open.
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Just a thought, I'm an open player, I like consequences. Don't you think this is a reasonable compromise, though? There are lots of people who just want to congregate safely. If it would bring more players to open? You know, liven the game up a bit? Although now I think about it, the last thing we need is more players in the instances, think of the netcode!!
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
WorldsGreatestForumDad said:
While the Idea is great. This would also require people to all be in open. no other modes allowed to exist at all.
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I was a big wow player, on a pve server, I never really exposed myself to pvp in wow beyond the occasional battleground. And I agree it would require more player population to work, but I think that would happen if implemented, all the mobius people would come back to open and no doubt a bunch of solo players too. I would miss the wild west though (the game as it is now).

Anyway, like I say I don't really have a dog in this race, I'm happy with the game as it is now, in fact, I regret playing devil's advocate raising this already. lol.
 

Cmdr Esteban

Cmdr Esteban
Even as a non-PvPer, I really don't like the idea of a PvP flag which, when off, renders a ship impervious to damage. That's just, wait for it - immersion breaking in the extreme.

Rather, outside of conflict zones, power play zones and anarchy systems, just make destroying a clean ship (NPC or player) so expensive that it's universally avoided. The Pilots Federation will revoke your insurance for, say, a month. That means full ship value on rebuy. On top of that Pilots Federation NPC bounty hunters will hound you in every sector from here to Colonia, again for say, a month. Further, docking denied at every port except anarchy (allow criminals to redeem themselves). No further transgressions for, say, a month? Welcome back into law-abiding society (but feel free to continue pirating ships to your heart's content in anarchy systems, yaarrgh!).

We're all members of the Pilots Federation. That comes with privileges and obligations. The abrogation of those obligations (destroying clean ships without just cause in law-controlled systems), should be dangerous.
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Aashenfox said:
I was a big wow player, on a pve server, I never really exposed myself to pvp in wow beyond the occasional battleground. And I agree it would require more player population to work, but I think that would happen if implemented, all the mobius people would come back to open and no doubt a bunch of solo players too. I would miss the wild west though (the game as it is now).

Anyway, like I say I don't really have a dog in this race, I'm happy with the game as it is now, in fact, I regret playing devil's advocate raising this already. lol.
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Haha no worries. Did you ever invade the stormwind or orgrimmar on a PVE server? It will flag you automatically I think for 10 mins.
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Aashenfox said:
Yeh we did actually, I was always alliance, we normally got our butts handed to us, cos you know, goofy alliance in our pve gear, classic. ;) I played pve at teh very top level though, great memories, but I could never raid 5 times a week again.
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I miss it. I was on Ghostlands Horde side. I was a Wrath Baby, Ended up being a top end warlock and even did some alpha testing for new Xpacs with NDA's and stuff. Had a hell of a time.

The only reason I dont play anymore is its not very fun without my old friends.

However, Elite is a great place to meet and hang out with friends too. And it feels like those days. Elites awesome and scratches that itch.

I hope one day we kinda get some linear style dungeons and instances with bosses. These thargoids and POI's are a great step in the right direction for PVE content. And hopefully gear drops could be a thing incorporated with space legs for different types of weapons and armour, like we got with engineering our ships. Excpet the grind is in the activity and not the mindless farming. Rewards working together and stuff.

Id love the hell out of that.
 
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Saxon Kili

Saxon Kili
Aashenfox said:
Note, that this would not be my personal preference, I'm happy with teh modes we have now, just throwing it out there as a compromise I could live with, as a BGSer and semi serious pvper...

So, if your pvp flag is down, you cannot be interdicted by players, and your ship cannot be damaged by player weapons, munitions or rams from other player ships.

When your pvp flag is up, the game is exactly as it is today.

Your PvP flag is raised automatically when (this is just an initial list, we can expand on this and refine it :)):

Being in a hostile control system while pledged (we can expand this to include systems being expanded into, prep systems, whatever, I don't pp much you guys can discuss the specific circumstances)
Being wanted for player murder anywhere
Being in a populated Anarchy system
Entering a Combat Zone
Entering a Compromised Nav Beacon
Entering a HAZRES
Transporting anything from an approved list of 'piratable materials', which includes most of the high value stuff, OR transporting a total goods over a certain value.

That last one's contentious, but you can't kill pirating...maybe keep the list specific, anything of equal or higher value than platinum, for example. Like I say, this is rough, we can refine.

It needs to be fair to PvEers, but also to PvPers, compromises and all that.

Any support?
Click to expand...

How about if they dont fall under the above PVP criteria they aren't instance-matched with PVP players.
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
Aashenfox said:
Note, that this would not be my personal preference, I'm happy with teh modes we have now, just throwing it out there as a compromise I could live with, as a BGSer and semi serious pvper...

So, if your pvp flag is down, you cannot be interdicted by players, and your ship cannot be damaged by player weapons, munitions or rams from other player ships.

When your pvp flag is up, the game is exactly as it is today.

Your PvP flag is raised automatically when (this is just an initial list, we can expand on this and refine it :)):

Being in a hostile control system while pledged (we can expand this to include systems being expanded into, prep systems, whatever, I don't pp much you guys can discuss the specific circumstances)
Being wanted for player murder anywhere
Being in a populated Anarchy system
Entering a Combat Zone
Entering a Compromised Nav Beacon
Entering a HAZRES
Transporting anything from an approved list of 'piratable materials', which includes most of the high value stuff, OR transporting a total goods over a certain value.

That last one's contentious, but you can't kill pirating...maybe keep the list specific, anything of equal or higher value than platinum, for example. Like I say, this is rough, we can refine.

It needs to be fair to PvEers, but also to PvPers, compromises and all that.

Any support?
Click to expand...

Sounds fair to me.
 

bigity

bigity
Aashenfox said:
Note, that this would not be my personal preference, I'm happy with teh modes we have now, just throwing it out there as a compromise I could live with, as a BGSer and semi serious pvper...

So, if your pvp flag is down, you cannot be interdicted by players, and your ship cannot be damaged by player weapons, munitions or rams from other player ships.

When your pvp flag is up, the game is exactly as it is today.

Your PvP flag is raised automatically when (this is just an initial list, we can expand on this and refine it :)):

Being in a hostile control system while pledged (we can expand this to include systems being expanded into, prep systems, whatever, I don't pp much you guys can discuss the specific circumstances)
Being wanted for player murder anywhere
Being in a populated Anarchy system
Entering a Combat Zone
Entering a Compromised Nav Beacon
Entering a HAZRES
Transporting anything from an approved list of 'piratable materials', which includes most of the high value stuff, OR transporting a total goods over a certain value.

That last one's contentious, but you can't kill pirating...maybe keep the list specific, anything of equal or higher value than platinum, for example. Like I say, this is rough, we can refine.

It needs to be fair to PvEers, but also to PvPers, compromises and all that.

Any support?
Click to expand...

Possibly. I'd add more triggers.

Carrying PP merits of any kind, for example.
Any hostile PP related system (changing BGS in exploited systems can have detrimental effects on a power)

I don't care too much about carrying high dollar cargo, as long as hasrez is on the list.

Along with something like this, anarchy systems need to have lucrative missions/cargo to incentivize them.\



I don't think this system would ever happen though.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
If the list of caveats is so extensive, why bother with wasting time on a feature that is likely to do nothing to promote Open and would offer plenty of opportunity for trolling?
 

Arkadi

Arkadi
picommander said:
Indeed, but not in a way you seem to have in mind. The most horrible not so 'immersive' things I've faced in ED happened in Open and I'm not even talking about some players acting like immature chickens. It's mainly to do with the unreliable way that any multiplayer related stuff in ED is implemented. Until this state persists no one would ever get me into any sort of PvP, be it Open or PvP flags. It all makes no difference to me and is from my point of view nothing but trying to build castles on windborne sand.

That said, I'm perfectly ok with whatever you want to change in Open: As long as it won't take anything away from Solo, then more power to you! :)
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Brothers in mind, in some way.
We don't want any changes to our favorite modes. :D

The immersion I am talking about is to see ships in space as real as it might be. The hollow squares are as much of artificial flag as I can bear :p

I also like to encouter commanders not knowing what they are on about. Scanning and looking at theire outfit is the first thing that gives me a hint, what they are after. Talking is the second most important thing. I like this factor of uncertaininty. Am I facing a killer, a bountyhunter, a pirate? Will he wing up with me for a mutual goal or has this pilot an agenad opposed to mine?

That's the immersion I am talking about. Interaction with other players in a way described above. That's what I like about open. And flags would take a bit of this uncertainity of player encounters away.
 
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