Elite / Frontier What would prevent *you* from buying E4?

[njacob]

The key is making a balanced game for consoles and PC a-like. It's very rarely achieved unfortunately though.. See GTA IV for a recent example. Dreadful PC release.

The Call of Duty series achieved it really well though and same for the Resident Evil games, so it's not an impossible task.

While I don't think Elite4 would be console only, you can 99% expect it to appear on more than one platform. The industry has taken an interesting turn in recent years and developers have seen the potential market for spreading their releases over more than one platform. Infact, a company who only releases on one platform these days are taking a huge gamble.

I for one hope to see E4 on PC and 360 - I actually tend to get both sometimes!

 

[Gibbon]

The only thing I would say about "console only" is that Frontier did a pretty good job of CD32 FE2. I guess the market has changed since those halcyon days though

God forbid its console only or a port from console even. That really will be a killer

 

[pakoistinen]

My showstoppers.

First, I must say I've played and loved all sequels since the original black-and-white wireframe Elite. I've played also most other space fight'n'flight games out there. None can equal the original of course. Lately I've been dying to get *ANY* kind of a space flight'n'fight game for PS3... but in vain. There are no started projects nor old games out for the console. A shame. The controller would be perfectly suited for this genre.

... These are the reasons why I would probably STOP playing the game soon. No reason would stop me from acquiring it in the first place. So here goes:

- Lacking trading system and economy: Only a few games ever managed to get this done well. Implement some automatic "market analysis tools" or something. There is no reason they would not be available in such advanced civilisations. If trade missions seem dull then maybe pirates should be after the precious cargo?
- No ability to modify the hull, weapons, speed, ... you name it.. of each ship. This is an absolute killer. Boys always want to tune their cars so why not their space ships?
- No random gear for the ships. This is a great opportunity, really: Randomise the gear attribute values. This is a great opportunity to make ship building more interesting.
- Uniques: The word speaks for itself.
- Forced storyline kills the game. It's gotta be free world with humongous choice for missions and exploration. Yet, having a storyline is a must... but following it not.
- If side quests are stupid, i.e. all similar, then they are not very entertaining either. Many Bethesda's games seem to have a good record with side quests. That model could work maybe?
- Closed end. If you need to finish the storyline that's not a problem. Just sell additional modules for the game, downloadable content and such. Console gamers will get them. I have to admit it ... game companies do need to get their revenue from somewhere.
- No possibility to accumulate personal wealth, posessions and other assets. The more the merrier. This has killed *so* many games. People like to hoard.
- The MMO question: Not a problem really as long as there's no monthly charge for playing the game. The game must be playable also offline. Otherwise it's a rip-off.
- Jar Jar Binx. Leave that dude and his kind out. Please.
- Physics: If newtonian physics is too realistic -> ships miss each other at astronomical speeds and you don't even see enemies passing by (i.e. the FFE problem). This kills space combat and the fun of dogfighting. On the other hand, if the fighting is too dogfighty, e.g. not newtonically realistic -> well... umm... great masses will still like it but a few "real" Elite and FFE fans like me will be a bit disappointed. Nevertheless I'd go for a mix of these two worlds with the preference on user experience and ease of use (I'm sorry to say that but it's simply more fun). Maybe something we saw in Babylon5 series? Or maybe something like the first Elite - that was pretty well playable I'm sure you agree with that.

I'd love to hear something being announced regarding the game's future. Can't wait.

Thanks for reading and thinking it through. Best wishes, P

 

[colourless]

I think Elite 4 may suffer from the effect the original elite did. The games industry has moved on from the days when first encounters was out. For example, EMI did not like Elite because it didnt fit in with the status quo of being completable within 5 minutes, and I think Elite 4 will have to change to follow the rules, but I hope not. Today all games have to have guns and ultra realistic graphics with senseless killing. But the Elite games were never about being a thrill seeker, well, they were if you wanted to that was the thing - be able to do anything you want, you dont get genuine freedom in games anymore, not even GTA IV.

 

[njacob]

I think Elite 4 may suffer from the effect the original elite did. The games industry has moved on from the days when first encounters was out. For example, EMI did not like Elite because it didnt fit in with the status quo of being completable within 5 minutes, and I think Elite 4 will have to change to follow the rules, but I hope not. Today all games have to have guns and ultra realistic graphics with senseless killing. But the Elite games were never about being a thrill seeker, well, they were if you wanted to that was the thing - be able to do anything you want, you dont get genuine freedom in games anymore, not even GTA IV.

I like to have some direction in my games at least. I don't quite get what you mean by "genuine freedom" - it doesn't get much more open than GTA IV, Infamous, Oblivion and so on. Personally speaking, my tastes these days don't revolve around simply turning a game on and having no story, no guidelines and no purpose. Perhaps they used to, when gaming was much more simple. Also to draw another point, how open or linear a game is really does not define its strength in my opinion. Even a game that is 100% linear can still be enjoyable, most recent examples for me: C&C 3, Bionic Commando, Guitar Hero Metallica - totally linear level based games but all a very enjoyable experience.

I wouldn't expect E4 to be identical copies of the previous games - I think Braben has bigger views than reiterating old concepts. Especially if he decides to go with his MMO idea.. the sky would be the limit, and the team could incorporate a whole host of ideas.

 

[Mack Winston]

What Draq said.
But also space must be black, not navy blue like in FFE. And please, no colourful nebulae. (Or at least, let me turn it off).

 

[Steve O B Have]

What Draq said.
But also space must be black, not navy blue like in FFE. And please, no colourful nebulae. (Or at least, let me turn it off).

Not no nebulae - since the game is based in the real galaxy it would be cool to go see things like the Horseshoe Nebula or the Crab Nebula. But I agree they shouldn't be everywhere.

 

[Mack Winston]

Not no nebulae - since the game is based in the real galaxy it would be cool to go see things like the Horseshoe Nebula or the Crab Nebula. But I agree they shouldn't be everywhere.

The thing is - look at the Horseshoe Nebula from Earth or anywhere nearby (anywhere basically in the FFE populated galaxy). You need a telescope to see it. You're not going to see it out the window of your spacecraft as a brightly coloured object filling half your windscreen. Many space games seem to have this "nebula covers most of the view" type of space backgrounds, when really, it ought to be black.

 

[Steve O B Have]

The thing is - look at the Horseshoe Nebula from Earth or anywhere nearby (anywhere basically in the FFE populated galaxy). You need a telescope to see it. You're not going to see it out the window of your spacecraft as a brightly coloured object filling half your windscreen. Many space games seem to have this "nebula covers most of the view" type of space backgrounds, when really, it ought to be black.

But if you fly out to the spot in the galaxy that it exists then why could you not see it out of the window? Nebula are quite visual things and very much recognised astronomical objects. They do actually glow in quite a spectacular manner altho not always in the way they are often depicted. Space is a pretty spectacular place.

I think it's important to have them in the game but as you say not everywhere and overdone as does seem to happen quite a bit in the current games released in the space genre.

check these out: http://www.pbase.com/escilla/true_color_nebulae
http://eaglenebula.net/photos/photos.php?dir=../astronomy/astrophotos/Deep_Space_Slide_Show

This is a Galaxy - it's gases and stars - it's the combination of both that make celestial bodies so spectacular.

 

[Shadowcore]

A large man with a large gun, is the only thing that would stop me from buying elite 4. The current generation of games is sadly bereft of a good space sim, neither of the consoles has had anything in the way of a space sim.

 

[Callum Rowley]

I think "should space be colourful, or should it just be dark and spacey" and "should there be realistic Newtonian physics, or should movement be easier to handle" are two questions most space games are confronted by. And most developers have opted to go for one or the other.

It depends on the games setting for me. I think it'd be great to feel like your in a real universe where it's dark and how you'd imagine space to be, but I also think there should be those out-of-this-world visuals happening in the landscape (like the above image) that you see when flying. To me, it should make me think "wow, maybe this is really out there somewhere" as that adds to the enjoyment of seeing something I can't see in real-life, or haven't already seen in other media.

Colourful nebulae / landscapes can always be supplemented by events as well, like capital ship graveyards or the remnants of a planet so it's easy to make space look interesting, but not unrealistic.

Newtonian physics brings up an entirely new debate, such as can a Newtonian physics flight model (simulator style) co-exist with an arcade-like physics flight model (casual style)? ...Especially when considering multiplayer.

 

[Steve]

Newtonian physics brings up an entirely new debate, such as can a Newtonian physics flight model (simulator style) co-exist with an arcade-like physics flight model (casual style)? ...Especially when considering multiplayer.

I think they could very easily in single player, simply by a choice in the options screen for "Arcade" or "Newtonian" controls. As for multi player, that's a different kettle of fish. It's hard to see how the two could possibly co-exist

 

[rgmarett]

You could have a set of rules in the multi-player options that the host could decide. Much the same way Forza 2 works. The host can decide if all the help options are turned off/on/or a player can decide on their own.

As for set events that make space look pretty and interesting, I thought it's be quite cool to discover a wormhole that took you back to Earth when the dinosaurs were walking about. Not sure how you'd fit that into a 'proper' storyline, and thinking about it, if you were going for realism I'm not sure that time-travel backwards is even theoretically possible.

 

[Spacegamer]

I'm not sure that time-travel backwards is even theoretically possible.

Could try the Futurama solution.

 

[rgmarett]

that could work....AND Jurassic Park was on the Sci-Fi channel today - It's a sign I tell you.

 

[DrBaggy]

Or failing that some worlds in the early stages of evolution in outer galaxies, maybe with a "Spore" type procedurally generated evolution so they change when you revisit them? (ok that's not going to happen but we can dream).

 

[Callum Rowley]

I think they could very easily in single player, simply by a choice in the options screen for "Arcade" or "Newtonian" controls. As for multi player, that's a different kettle of fish. It's hard to see how the two could possibly co-exist

It is a tricky one, they've made it work quite well in Jumpgate Evolution by having a toggle to turn Dampeners on and off - how it'll work on a massive scale is still to be seen, but it has the potential.

You could have a set of rules in the multi-player options that the host could decide. Much the same way Forza 2 works. The host can decide if all the help options are turned off/on/or a player can decide on their own.

I like this suggestion It would also give those who've accidentally entered a Newtonian-enabled game a chance to give Newtonian a whirl (and maybe even like it).

 

[VictorT]

<_<

My buy/not buy requirements are pretty easy. If it works (well enough) in WINE, or if there's a linux binary, I'll be buying it. (So I'll probably never get to play it, I know, it doesn't need pointing out, thanks.)

OH, also; If it comes out on console, it probably won't be for one I own, and it certainly won't be as good as the PC version, and therefore will stop me from buying it too.

(and yes, it's unrealistic to think i will go out and buy a whole console, or a whole computer (or operating system) just to play one game)
---
on the side-topic of realistic physics; imho, e2:f had the best dogfighting in the whole series. There aren't car-style chases like in FFE, it's all orbital and slingshot and wait an hour til they come back in range, then FIRE! I know most people are APPALLED by the thought of realistic space fighting, but i maintain, the problem isn't the physics of the endeavor aren't fun, it's the weapons don't match the environment, if the weapons were better designed (and shipboard computer assisted) for the relativistic, constantly shifting orbits of the combatants, it could be more fun.

ships in E4 should have the "Match Velocity" feature in targeting computers (of a certain quality) like in Terminus, which would rapidly adjust-to-match your reference velocity that of your target's, so you could accelerate/decelerate at a rate IN REFERENCE to your target. That solves most peoples problems with the relativity of combat.

and finally, I think it was mentioned in another thread about the arcade/realism slider for the physics (of which i'm personally a fan), and the argument against it was that it messes with the AI's ability to calculate combat (eg, tactics that would work with arcade physics would be useless in newtonian physical environments, and vice versa).. So I don't know what Frontier will do about that, but I tellya, if Jesus comes back and performs the miracle (which it seems to be the general consensus it would take) of making E4 run under Linux, not having newtonian phyisics which would take me days to slow down from 16,514 KM/s at 22G/s^2 (talk about dampeners!), then i would certainly skip buying it.

Cheers,

 

[redorb]

i will be buying it what-ever

i understood there would be 2 versions of the game 1 single player and one multiplayer....

even though mmo or multiplayer will make it essentially a different game i will be buying / playing that as well.

just a thought though:

in multiplayer how will star-dreaming work??

take care all and see you in space

RedOrb

ps. scifiandgames is down..... boo.. i might of misplaced the contents somewhere.... dont ask

 

[unite]

If it's to be an MMO it will fail. Put simply its already out there called EVE. I played EVE for a good few months a couple of years back and never really got into it as I just prefer to work alone.

In MMO the star dreamer will be gone, it will have to work in an EVE style were you warp into close proximity to the planets, stations etc which kills the physics alot of you are talking about and stops the your being attacked while heading from a jump to a planet.

I can only hope the game will focus on and build on FE2.

One thing I can remember talking to the mates about years and year ago when first playin FE2 was how we would of loved the ability to leave the ship and move about the city. Perhaps instead of the starport with all the facility there you could have an interactive city were you need to go to the shipyard, view different ships, upgrades. Go to the market place to sell your freshly mined ores etc. Buy multiple ships and keep them in hangers on different planets etc. Put simple I think alot of attention needs to be paid to the planet side of the game not just space.