What's the most efficient way to mine Tritium?

[gooddoc]

Iv just took my Carrier over to Beagle Point, knowing after around 30something thousand LYs returning, I'll run out of Tritium.
Currently hovvering between 3-4K in the hold plus 1K in the tank....still around 6-7K more needed to return to the bubble.
Just sucking it up & trying 3-4 days Exploration & bug scanning then 3 days finding a Tritium hotspot then Mining it....then moving on again......it takes as long as it takes

 

[Darth Ender]

Crumbs, look, you don't like mining. That's OK, but the only solution really is to avoid it. There's nothing wrong with doing that. Complaining about it to other people who quite enjoy it isn't going to make anyone change their mind.

There's nothing special about mining in this regard. I don't do much combat because I don't much like it. This marks off some parts of the game from me, but I don't maintain that it's bad game design; I just recognise that it's not designed for me.

You obviously weren't reading what was written, aka listening and are just parroting a point that isn't interesting.

We know the best way to deal with tritium mining is to not mine tritium, otherwise known as avoiding it. That is not an interesting point that can be discussed. Why is the only solution to avoid it? Why does fdev think that's acceptable? This isn't a "not liking it" situation. There were specific things noted about what makes tritium mining bad that has nothing to do about what some hypothetical players like or dont like.

There are no hypothetical players who choose to tritium mine because it's fun, interesting, or engaging or any other positive attribute of game design. They simply do not exist except in pretend arguments on this forum trying to defend a game players like more than the developers.

There are better alternatives within reason and within the ability of a gaming studio the size of fdev to do. and of course, i realize that talking about it on the forum is not going to result in it ever happening, but if all we are supposed to do is use the forum to discuss what fdev is actually willing to do with the game then this would be as dead as the 99.9999% of solar systems in the game. It would just be reports about problems caused by updates and new players slowly realizing whatever enthusiasm they came into the game with is 9 years too late to matter.

 

[K Olley]

There are no hypothetical players who choose to tritium mine because it's fun, interesting, or engaging or any other positive attribute of game design. They simply do not exist except in pretend arguments on this forum trying to defend a game players like more than the developers.

I exist.

I spend almost all of my time out in the black.

I do not bother to fill my carrier up with Tritium when I return to the bubble, I Mine Tritium as I go.

 

[Astrometer]

I exist.

I spend almost all of my time out in the black.

I do not bother to fill my carrier up with Tritium when I return to the bubble, I Mine Tritium as I go.

Me too. Sub-surface mining is one of the best features of this game. Tritium mining adds a much needed extra dimension to exploration. It's a shame they didn't add other resource requirements to make it a bit more interesting.

 

[LifesAJourney]

Is DSSA still a thing? Are they still out there? If they are, it's just a matter of contacting the owners and negotiating quantities and prices. Worked very well during my long carrier-based exploration trip. We actually mined several hundred tonnes during it, bought thousands and thousands from DSSA.

 

[Brrokk]

You obviously weren't reading what was written, aka listening and are just parroting a point that isn't interesting.

We know the best way to deal with tritium mining is to not mine tritium, otherwise known as avoiding it. That is not an interesting point that can be discussed. Why is the only solution to avoid it? Why does fdev think that's acceptable? This isn't a "not liking it" situation. There were specific things noted about what makes tritium mining bad that has nothing to do about what some hypothetical players like or dont like.

There are no hypothetical players who choose to tritium mine because it's fun, interesting, or engaging or any other positive attribute of game design. They simply do not exist except in pretend arguments on this forum trying to defend a game players like more than the developers.

There are better alternatives within reason and within the ability of a gaming studio the size of fdev to do. and of course, i realize that talking about it on the forum is not going to result in it ever happening, but if all we are supposed to do is use the forum to discuss what fdev is actually willing to do with the game then this would be as dead as the 99.9999% of solar systems in the game. It would just be reports about problems caused by updates and new players slowly realizing whatever enthusiasm they came into the game with is 9 years too late to matter.

I like mining, for tritium or anything else. I consider it one of the comparatively realistic hard-SF activities in the game. I almost certainly don't like some activities you do like, but I don't maintain that you don't exist because of that.

 

[Greasetrap42]

the majority of the game is filled with empty systems where the only thing you can do in them is mine or honk/look at. it makes no sense that the limit to players participating in that is 'make them so bored they wish they didn't bother'. it makes no sense why the developers would want that to be their answer to any aspect of a game they want players to enjoy. this is a badly designed response to the game that should be resolved with something that encourages players while making them work for a reward worth the effort.

You are making the mistake of assuming everybody thinks the same as yourself.

Thousands of players have participated in deep space exploration activities. Many of these players including myself utilize a fleet carrier in these activities. If used effectively it can greatly expand a cmdr's experience and add to the fun of the game. A cmdr can choose to purchase tritium fuel or mine it themselves. Or a combination of both. Personally I purchase about 80% and supplement it with 20% mining. Tritium mining is a minor activity for me while exploring. I have traveled vast distances around the galaxy.

Compared to many other cmdrs I'm sure my deep space exploits are small.

I am constantly discovering better ways to do things in this game. Better ships, better methods.

If you don't enjoy deep space exploration that's fine. Don't do it. If you don't like mining.... don't do it. It is not for everybody.

Do I wish there were more activities built into the game? Absolutely. Would I pay more money for more activities? Sure.Do I like the game enough to play it as-is? Yes.

 

[Darth Ender]

You are making the mistake of assuming everybody thinks the same as yourself.

Thousands of players have participated in deep space exploration activities. Many of these players including myself utilize a fleet carrier in these activities. If used effectively it can greatly expand a cmdr's experience and add to the fun of the game. A cmdr can choose to purchase tritium fuel or mine it themselves. Or a combination of both. Personally I purchase about 80% and supplement it with 20% mining. Tritium mining is a minor activity for me while exploring. I have traveled vast distances around the galaxy.

Compared to many other cmdrs I'm sure my deep space exploits are small.

I am constantly discovering better ways to do things in this game. Better ships, better methods.

If you don't enjoy deep space exploration that's fine. Don't do it. If you don't like mining.... don't do it. It is not for everybody.

Do I wish there were more activities built into the game? Absolutely. Would I pay more money for more activities? Sure.Do I like the game enough to play it as-is? Yes.

you still haven't provided any statements refuting what I've said. you haven't provided any statements for why tritium mining the way it is illustrates good game design, is fun for xyz reasons, and is recommended to new players for xyz reasons like any good game activity would be.

all you have done is state you can stomach it if you dilute it and reduce it to the point where it doesn't make you want to punch a brick wall to remind yourself you are not dead.

mining in ice and exploring are core game activities. they should not be so bad that even fan boys can only handle doing it in tiny bits or if they have some unique definition of playing not shared by the majority. i don't dislike exploration or mining. i just think it sucks way more than it has a right to and should not be that way.

 

[Darth Ender]

I'll make it easy and remind you of the specific points being called out for why tritium mining is objectively bad and lazily implemented and unnecessarily balanced with time sinks.

1. tritium mining occurs in ice roids in measurable lower quantity and frequency that most other valuable ores.

2. Ice roids consist of far fewer valuable ores, creating a value desert.

3. tritium is one of the few / only ores that has a unique use beyond converting to credits that create situations that limit players options in certain activities. so players are funneled into the activity of mining for tritium while simultaneously the activity is purposely designed with points 1 and 2 to be unrewarding, long, and repetitive.

4. what players then prepare for is how to avoid a core game activity, not how to master or be better at it. they don't prepare for some demanding task that is difficult or requires experience and cost. they 'prepare' to deal with avoiding time sinks involving nothing enjoyable, nothing redeemable, and worth nobody's time. it's a punishment implemented in one of the very few tasks you can do in most of the systems in the game.

5. turning one of your few game loops into a punishment is objectively stupid design.

 

[Brrokk]

I'll make it easy and remind you of the specific points being called out for why tritium mining is objectively bad and lazily implemented and unnecessarily balanced with time sinks.

1. tritium mining occurs in ice roids in measurable lower quantity and frequency that most other valuable ores.

2. Ice roids consist of far fewer valuable ores, creating a value desert.

3. tritium is one of the few / only ores that has a unique use beyond converting to credits that create situations that limit players options in certain activities. so players are funneled into the activity of mining for tritium while simultaneously the activity is purposely designed with points 1 and 2 to be unrewarding, long, and repetitive.

4. what players then prepare for is how to avoid a core game activity, not how to master or be better at it. they don't prepare for some demanding task that is difficult or requires experience and cost. they 'prepare' to deal with avoiding time sinks involving nothing enjoyable, nothing redeemable, and worth nobody's time. it's a punishment implemented in one of the very few tasks you can do in most of the systems in the game.

5. turning one of your few game loops into a punishment is objectively stupid design.

I agree with you about 1 and 2, (but don't overlook LTDs and void opals) but with 3, 4 and 5 you're still falling into the trap of presenting your opinion and assuming everyone else shares it. Specifically, you went off course with "unrewarding" which is your reaction to mining, not intrinsic to the game.

If you find it unrewarding, don't do it. Leave it to people who enjoy it.

 

[Northpin]

There are no hypothetical players who choose to tritium mine because it's fun, interesting, or engaging or any other positive attribute of game design. They simply do not exist except in pretend arguments on this forum trying to defend a game players like more than the developers.

There are thousands of players that may choose to do things in game, for various reasons, that you may not like to do.

For example, participating in mining CG near SagA* - yeap, that's how Explorer's Anchorage was built - thousands of people moved their mining rigs (before carriers) and mined stuff to make the Explorer's Anchorage happen in Stuemeae FG-Y d7561

And currently there are lots of players that Explore the galaxy with their carrier, mining tritium as they go.




Edit: i just found the CG's on Inara, and it seems more people prefer Mining than Combat (at least among the ones that will chose to fly thousands of light years from home)

Mining CG 5000LY from bubble - 5198 participants

Combat CG 5000LY from the bubble* - 2028 participants.

MIning CG near SagA* - 2812 miners

Combat CG near SagA* - 893 participants.

 

[Astrometer]

1. tritium mining occurs in ice roids in measurable lower quantity and frequency that most other valuable ores.

In tritium hotspots, I'd say around 90% of surface/sub-surface are tritium. With up to 40T per rock and nearly every glowing rock having tritium, I don't see a problem with frequency and quantity.

2. Ice roids consist of far fewer valuable ores, creating a value desert.

Nothing else is of any value to me out in the black. I'm happy that it's 90% tritium.

 

[SteveWW57]

Whether having to mine tritium is a good, bad or an indifferent feature of keeping carriers travelling out in the black is just opinion. If having to mine for tritium is unacceptable, do not explore with a carrier. Lots of pre carrier exploration was done, and with less able ships.

If there was the demand in a specific area, then the free market could provide a solution. A player with an alt account and a penchant for mining could park a carrier next to a tritium hotspot and mine tritium for resale (at a handsome profit). The carrier could also stock mining gear so that others, whether passing or not, could mine and sell to the carrier.

Since we are unlikely to be able to place refineries out in the black to fuel carriers, then there are limited choices.

Steve

 

[Brian of Earth]

I'm going to hate myself for posting this, as this thread has pretty much descended into a pointless argument and a smidge of disrespect and ignorance on the points being made. But, I feel that I want to put a bow on this before I go back to trying to ignore this thread.

First, some truths:

I don't mind mining. Sometimes it's kinda zen.
I've been mining for a very long time, since way back when you lasered, then opened your cargo scoop and shagged the piece your darned-self.
It's not the main thing I do for sure, more of an explorer, or Odyssey settlement murder hobo. I'm actually listed on the Explorer's hall of fame post, somewhere between 100-110, if I recall correctly (thread long since closed). I was very proud of that one.
Lately, since the angry flower pots showed up, more into Exploring and Exobiology.
I had my FC originally on XB when they first came out and moved it over to PC when FD turned consoles into being pointless. So, I've had it for a while.

SO, the point I was making earlier in this thread was that I was facing about a 9,000 ton deficit in my hold for Tritium when I got to Colonia. I was dropping off an account there and assumed there would be Tritium to buy at a refinery, but, sadly no. So I went to a nearby hotspot and tried mining but found the yield to be quite low. My comment was that I bought it at a highly inflated price from another FC (and would still totally do it again). The cost was North of 2Bn.

So, zoom ahead to today, I'm a few thousand LY away from Colonia and am trying to keep my Tritium usage to the TRITIUM DEPOT. Being a raging Virgo I am loathe to dip into the hold, "just in case".

So, I am out in the black again mining to keep Tritium in the donation bin. Yesterday (and the day before combined) I did 4 hours of Tritium mining. Got roughly 320 tons from that trip. I will call it 3 hours because people get up from their chairs for various reasons, or maybe I did something else for a bit. This was at a hotspot. SO, say I had 9,000 tons to make up (maybe I have a sick aunt and I need to get back to the bubble quickly so I can't mine along the way). Using 3 hours at 106 tons per hour that's almost 85 hours to mine 9,000 tons of Tritium. MAINLY that's the point. Tritium is subject to the same RNG as anything else you mine. It would be great if going to a hotspot actually felt like a big improvement over just popping in to anyplace on an icy ring. You wouldn't even have to double or triple the hotspot, just make it a legit hotspot and I'd be happy as a lark.

I hope this clears things up a little. Maybe I don't feel as strong as others may about the topic, I just feel that Tritium hotspots should really be useful for fleet carriers. If you are talking about how that might make things more unrealistic, i remind you of the other great lies in this sim/game, much like Super Cruise, or jumping many light years in seconds...

 

[Northpin]

SO, the point I was making earlier in this thread was that I was facing about a 9,000 ton deficit in my hold for Tritium when I got to Colonia. I was dropping off an account there and assumed there would be Tritium to buy at a refinery, but, sadly no. So I went to a nearby hotspot and tried mining but found the yield to be quite low. My comment was that I bought it at a highly inflated price from another FC (and would still totally do it again). The cost was North of 2Bn.

So, zoom ahead to today, I'm a few thousand LY away from Colonia and am trying to keep my Tritium usage to the TRITIUM DEPOT. Being a raging Virgo I am loathe to dip into the hold, "just in case".

So, I am out in the black again mining to keep Tritium in the donation bin. Yesterday (and the day before combined) I did 4 hours of Tritium mining. Got roughly 320 tons from that trip. I will call it 3 hours because people get up from their chairs for various reasons, or maybe I did something else for a bit. This was at a hotspot. SO, say I had 9,000 tons to make up (maybe I have a sick aunt and I need to get back to the bubble quickly so I can't mine along the way). Using 3 hours at 106 tons per hour that's almost 85 hours to mine 9,000 tons of Tritium. MAINLY that's the point. Tritium is subject to the same RNG as anything else you mine. It would be great if going to a hotspot actually felt like a big improvement over just popping in to anyplace on an icy ring. You wouldn't even have to double or triple the hotspot, just make it a legit hotspot and I'd be happy as a lark.

So, are you dragging around a heavy carrier and instead of using the stored tritium, you are mining it?
Do i get this right?
I hope you do know the heavier your carrier is, the more tritium it burns for jumping

I mean, you can mine all the tritium you may need, but not all at the same time (9000t ?!!?!) and not without the proper tools and the proper skill set
If you're getting 100t per hour - you need to change ring and/or you need to improve your mining rig or your mining process/skillset (you'd need to get at least 160t per hour and that should be enough for a light carrier to jump twice)

The way i see it, mined tritium is for leisure exploring with the carrier (where you dont mind mining an hour to jump 2-3 times) or for emergency in case you miscalculate your fuel usage / reserves

I just feel that Tritium hotspots should really be useful for fleet carriers

They are.
Just remember you used to burn 500t tritium per jump. Then they doubled the tritium efficiency and you'd burn like 250t for per jump for a heavy carrier, then they'd improved it again and now you're burning like 130t-140t of tritium per jump for a heavy carrier (or under 80 for a light carrier)

You just need to manage your expectations, and make improvements in the areas that are under your control
And if you decide to drag your carrier around, to find ways to deal with tritium usage.

I know this is not helpful, and maybe you just wanted to vent, but that's how carriers are designed to work

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

…but if all we are supposed to do is use the forum to discuss what fdev is actually willing to do with the game then this would be as dead as the 99.9999% of solar systems in the game. It would just be reports about problems caused by updates and new players slowly realizing whatever enthusiasm they came into the game with is 9 years too late to matter.

You see this is what I love about Darth Ender‘s posts - they’re so wonderfully bleak!

I can imagine him clicking on the play button in the launcher and each and every time as he watches the opening graphics, muttering under his breath “god I hate this game”. For years.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

If there was the demand in a specific area, then the free market could provide a solution. A player with an alt account and a penchant for mining could park a carrier next to a tritium hotspot and mine tritium for resale (at a handsome profit). The carrier could also stock mining gear so that others, whether passing or not, could mine and sell to the carrier.

You can't buy and sell to the same carrier market, so this would really need two alts - one running the sell carrier for other miners, one running the buy carrier for passing explorers, and then they manually transfer cargo between the two when online as needed.


The problem is that mining is never a workable free market solution to this, because there are other more efficient ways to get Tritium out there.

Let's say a top miner can mine 200t of Tritium per hour and has mapped out a series of hotspots to make this reliable. To earn 100M/hour [1], they need to charge 500,000 credits per tonne for the Tritium. To provide 10,000 tonnes of fuel to a passing carrier, they need to work for 50 hours.

A disposable tanker carrier, on the other hand, costs 500 million net for the carrier (purchase cost minus scrappage payment), plus 50k/tonne for the fuel. At the same 500,000 credits per tonne purchase price, it would be capable to operate on a 100M/hour basis at well over 50,000 LY from the bubble, but would only take about 45 hours to do that and can deliver to the carrier that needs the fuel rather than them needing to find the mining installation.

The tankers are cheaper, faster and more convenient than the miners in almost all circumstances under the free market, as well as requiring far less skill and practice to provide (mostly it's semi-AFK jumping or short-turn hauling); someone more altruistic running their fuel service on a break-even basis (or the explorer's own alt) could deliver Tritium to the far side of the galaxy for just 200k/tonne.

To make mining viable (on a free market basis, I'm sure there are people who'll do it purely for fun and altruism) would require some sort of highly unpopular change, e.g.:
- earning rates for all NPC activities to be reduced to 20M/hour maximum - at that point, mining would outdo tanker carriers in a substantial proportion of the galaxy, because the majority of the tanker's costs are fixed, but a carrier owner can pay well above 20M/hour to attract miners.
- Tritium efficiency to be put back to the original levels of ~1T/LY. At that point even a disposable tanker carrier can't get out more than 25000LY and can't carry any useful amount of fuel that far; setting up the supply caches necessary for it to get out a little bit at a time would push the costs up to ridiculous levels
- Tritium is made mining-only, even in the bubble.
So it's not happening, I think.


[1] A top miner can earn a lot more than that in the bubble, of course, or out in the black could earn comparably from exobiology. So free market, probably needs to pay a lot more ... which makes the disposable tankers more effective as their fixed costs don't change but the pay goes up.

 

[Brian of Earth]

So, are you dragging around a heavy carrier and instead of using the stored tritium, you are mining it?
Do i get this right?
I hope you do know the heavier your carrier is, the more tritium it burns for jumping

I mean, you can mine all the tritium you may need, but not all at the same time (9000t ?!!?!) and not without the proper tools and the proper skill set
If you're getting 100t per hour - you need to change ring and/or you need to improve your mining rig or your mining process/skillset (you'd need to get at least 160t per hour and that should be enough for a light carrier to jump twice)

The way i see it, mined tritium is for leisure exploring with the carrier (where you dont mind mining an hour to jump 2-3 times) or for emergency in case you miscalculate your fuel usage / reserves




They are.
Just remember you used to burn 500t tritium per jump. Then they doubled the tritium efficiency and you'd burn like 250t for per jump for a heavy carrier, then they'd improved it again and now you're burning like 130t-140t of tritium per jump for a heavy carrier (or under 80 for a light carrier)

You just need to manage your expectations, and make improvements in the areas that are under your control
And if you decide to drag your carrier around, to find ways to deal with tritium usage.

I know this is not helpful, and maybe you just wanted to vent, but that's how carriers are designed to work

Sure I typically try to fuel my jumps from the depot and mine to keep it that way most of the time, when I'm just exploring around without a real destination, which is most of the time. When I make a plan and head to a place is when I start dipping into the hold. I've filled my hold several times. Buying and mining. There's almost 18k of Tritium sitting in my hold right now. I'll explore around a while, do some Exobiology, do a mining trip. Once I've explored an area and fill up the depot I go somewhere else. I really don't need advice on how I should do things (and wasn't asking for it).

The point I made was there, the example given was for a single instance of Tritium mining and 85 hours broken up into chunks of several mining trips is still 85 hours. To do one thing. Even if you are a super miner and pull twice what I do (which is more RNG than skill anyway) that's still 40+ hours, doing one thing. Anyone that howls about Material grinding has never tried Tritium mining. I've said before, up here further in this thread, I don't mind the work to mine Tritium, I feel that the hotspots should yield more Tritium.

This post you made is indicative of one of the many problems with this forum where you just assume that I'm just a whiney baby that can't operate a FC properly and don't know how to mine, and, apparently you have a bunch of free time (or type really fast, or sat up all night responding to this, or ??).

Again, I'm making the one point, and one point only, that I, myself, feel that RNG makes Tritium mining more of a chore than it needs to be. It would be good if the material offered in Tritium hotspots was set at a higher number. mmmkay?

I know there's a lot of words here for you to pick apart, but my ask is simple.

 

[yianniv]

The way I remember it, is that after tritium was revealed as fuel, FD increased the dual hotspot efficiency so it was very convenient to visit those areas to mine tritium. Unfortunately, the price of tritium was increased from 4,000 to 49-50,000cr per tonne. So the Credit Balance Masters complained about commanders getting rich too fast (salad hunting wasn't a thing yet) and FDev gave them the balance they deserved. But the same happened to the rest of the players.
It's been suggested lately to increase the fuel depot, increase yields for mined tritium and make mined tritium only acceptable in the fuel depot, not the FC markets.

 

[Astrometer]

I don't know why tritium hotspots are rubbish for laser mining. You'd think that would be an easy fix. For sub-surface mining, tritium hotspots are excellent, but I wouldn't object to some improvements. They could increase the number of chunks you get for hitting the narrow bands. Also when mining most of the time is spent playing the drilling mini-game. I'd like to be able to synthesise better ammo that makes drilling faster, speeding up the mini-game. And if I can have these simple improvements in legacy, that would be nice.