And why do we have that info?
Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'
- Thread starter DeathStroke
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And why do we have that info?
DeathStroke
Banned
That's the problem... "Assume"... Most people assumed that 3.X would be premium. Without explicit communication from FD, we're left to make random guesses on what will be premium and when we'll get it.
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Your guesses don't need to be random, you can weigh up likelihoods. Such as spacelegs this year being extremely unlikely, but possible in the long run and premium stuff after beyond.
You know there is no "LEP only content" right? It was never intended to.
And unless someone with LEP has been charged for season 3/Beyond, then the terms of LEP remain..... All future releases/seasons are "no more to pay" (not "free", since you already paid for the privilege)
As to comms.....it was stated that premium content is coming.
The horizons "pay now, receive in blobs later" didn't go down well. (I didn't mind it to be honest). So some time back FD said they were changing that. Given Horizons, we can say it takes maybe 12-18 months to get something complete enough to sell. What to do?
Drip feed some more free content whilst simultaneously working on a major and largely complete paid expansion.
If by the end of this year we no have a paid expansion available /imminent, then we can probably get upset. But not before, because they said it is coming.
Fwiw.... I have a horizons period LEP and am not worried about getting value in the long term. I did assume we would have annual seasons so sure, I expected to have been clawing back some 'savings' by now. But I'm not worried.
They've pretty much said it won't: "it's something that will not happen in the Beyond season". Does that help?
They made it pretty clear back in the day. What makes you think they'd change tack and offer it for free?
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I've got an LEP. I kinda get your concern. But I also kinda don't. They've spoken of: Another 'major expansion' being planned, of Legs & Atmos all still being on the cards etc. They've also mentioned that they're moving from Seasonal delivery to a more upfront one, which will clearly require more lead time for dev. Hence the current hype and delivery drought we find ourselves in, as far as I'm concerned.
Their most recent snippets claim that: More is coming after Beyond, and that ED's revenue is better than ever and being used on more dev than before. The general noises (and general financial signals in terms of FDev doing well, and not being about to go anywhere), are all positive enough.
Given the time lag since the Horizons launch, and the echoing lack of bang-for-buck, I do totally understand anyone wondering what the hell is going on. And even pursuing a refund if they wanted. But I'm pretty chill that an expansion in some form is coming. (And that they'll manage the pre-hype cycle in the normal way, probably at their own Expo or a prior games con for some big reveal. Horizons was announced about 4 months before launch, at Gamescon, so I'd expect that kind of build up period, and zero meaningful info before...)
I'd forget the intra-Beyond premium stuff being an expansion though, they've seemingly been characterised variously as 'pretty cool things' and 'small surprises'
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Well, as a lot of folks here I've bought LEP for $180 when it was announced, the same day. I think it was in 2015. August, for sure.
At that time I was so immersed with a game and 've spent like weeks of time in it, it was out of question.
Do I regret it? No.
Was it worth it? No, definitely no. Beyond is included in Horizons, and Horizons then was how much... $45? $60?
I've paid $60 bucks about 7 months before paying for LEP. So, it's like $240 or something.
Will it get 'fulfilled'? I don't know. I really hope so.
I am, as most of your folks here, is stunned and disappointed by amazingly slow pace FD is developing our amazing game in.
And yes, I am not happy they didn't include any basic font for LEP owners, so since then I won't be buying anything else from the store. ever. again.
That's my thoughts on a topic.
At that time I was so immersed with a game and 've spent like weeks of time in it, it was out of question.
Do I regret it? No.
Was it worth it? No, definitely no. Beyond is included in Horizons, and Horizons then was how much... $45? $60?
I've paid $60 bucks about 7 months before paying for LEP. So, it's like $240 or something.
Will it get 'fulfilled'? I don't know. I really hope so.
I am, as most of your folks here, is stunned and disappointed by amazingly slow pace FD is developing our amazing game in.
And yes, I am not happy they didn't include any basic font for LEP owners, so since then I won't be buying anything else from the store. ever. again.
That's my thoughts on a topic.
So I've been through the thread again, and the only rational conclusion I can draw, is that there seem to be two major camps over this issue.
One where the following clip is not satire, and one which believes it's indicative of FD's behaviour when it comes to LEPs.
I leave it to you all to decide which camp you're in, as it seems FD have lumped in with those that think Phase 2 is genius.
[video=youtube;3zc4bGkU05o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4bGkU05o[/video]
One where the following clip is not satire, and one which believes it's indicative of FD's behaviour when it comes to LEPs.
I leave it to you all to decide which camp you're in, as it seems FD have lumped in with those that think Phase 2 is genius.
[video=youtube;3zc4bGkU05o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4bGkU05o[/video]
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DeathStroke
Banned
Actually, yes, it makes my point quite nicely. FD communicates with their player-base so poorly. The most detailed communication regarding 'space legs' is on a third-party site in French. On top of that, the most detailed information equates to 'not this year'. I guess 'not this year' is better than Soon(TM)..... Still sucks though.They've pretty much said it won't: "it's something that will not happen in the Beyond season". Does that help?
The whole 'not doing seasons anymore' thing...
That was pants.
You can get why they use hype control though right? Nearly every dev house does it. Start the hype cycle too soon and it peaks way before launch. Get it right and it's the equivalent of free marketing. I don't blame them for that. (I blame them for other stuff
)But DB talks in that thread about cost and pricing for the new mystery model. What model are you envisioning where a large expansion is given away for free?
The only scenarios I can really think of are either a shift to subscription or a complete F2P model funded via P2W items & uber cosmetics. Do you think either of those things are happening? We don't really have any signs in that direction. Most of the material I've provided above still signals a comparable model to the current one (a large, paid, expansion).
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And premium content will be some minor update containing pew pew stuff.
For two years i've been listening same ppl here saying you'll see by the end of the year big things are coming and al kind of speculations while only disappontment and buggy halfproducts are being delivered.
And i believe same trend will continue!
For two years i've been listening same ppl here saying you'll see by the end of the year big things are coming and al kind of speculations while only disappontment and buggy halfproducts are being delivered.
And i believe same trend will continue!
Braben also makes a ridiculous claim that "our expansions have been free" in this article: https://variety.com/2018/gaming/features/david-braben-interview-1202846009/ If this is being read by a customer who has paid $240 USD in total for the base game plus LEP in 2015 it would reflect a complete disconnect between Braben's understading of the game FD has been developing and selling to customers over the past 3.5 years. Braben saying something does not mean it has any actual connection to the reality of the game we are playing or the game that FD is developing.
I am not envisioning a "large expansion" being made at all, whether it's a season model or some other type of paid content DLC model. That's the issue here. A player who purchased the base game for $60 USD plus the LEP for $180 USD has paid $240 USD on the game, which is equivalent to four full AAA standalone games. They should be expecting to see a corresponding amount of paid content developed from FD based on what they sold and marketed. Right now we have at most $105 USD of paid content and that is really being rather generous in assuming here that what we got during Horizons was actually "worth" anywhere close to the $45 USD that players paid for it.
Think about that for a second. The only AAA game I've spent more than $60 USD on at launch was Battlefield 4 when I bought the $120 "premium" package which included future DLC and some battlepacks. I didn't feel I got great value out of that so I only paid $60 USD for Battlefield Hardline, which was a good call because Visceral completely ruined the gameplay compared to what DICE was able to achieve for BF4 gameplay. The idea that what LEP owners have gotten, or are going to get in the future, could possibly be anywhere near $240 USD of paid-content value is just ludicrous at this stage. We will have only a fraction of that paid content delivered in any form by the end of 2018 which is 4 years after launch. In order for FD to deliver the equivalent of four AAA games worth of content to those players within the expected development lifetime of Elite (i.e., 7 years in total) is just not a remotely conceivable goal when they have been dramatically underdeveloping Elite since the game launched.
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Because a lot of people asked for it. The number of commenters in this thread vocally unwilling to wait until at least Gamescom is less than a dozen.
"Storm in a teacup" isn't a suitable metaphor. A fly landing on an elephant is probably more apt.
I realize LEPers paid way more than the game is worth and thus feel Entitled with a capitol "E", but closing in on 100 pages can you give it a rest already? You'll get what you get, when you get it, and not a day sooner.
So rather than David Braben deliberately lying as has been claimed previously (which made no sense), we are now to believe he just doesn't understand his game? He doesn't know Horizons was a paid expansion?
That also makes no sense.
I suspect most customers reading it would conclude he mispoke/was referring to the current season/was misquoted.
Never heard of the LEP until I read this thread.
I thought about this for some time and it struck me that an 'LEP' is the worst or best idea ever, depending on which side of the fence you are on. Pricing is another issue.
There are so many what/if/but questions about this idea, I could fill a page.
Anyway, I have this totally unique opportunity which is only open to specially selected individuals for a very short time.
I have a product which is going to expand and everyone will want over the coming years.
If you buy my product now, it will cost you something more than those who buy in the future, but you will have saved in the long run because you bought beforehand.
However, I cannot guarantee that you will ultimately save money as a result of this offer.
How often do I see this bull? All the time.
I thought about this for some time and it struck me that an 'LEP' is the worst or best idea ever, depending on which side of the fence you are on. Pricing is another issue.
There are so many what/if/but questions about this idea, I could fill a page.
Anyway, I have this totally unique opportunity which is only open to specially selected individuals for a very short time.
I have a product which is going to expand and everyone will want over the coming years.
If you buy my product now, it will cost you something more than those who buy in the future, but you will have saved in the long run because you bought beforehand.
However, I cannot guarantee that you will ultimately save money as a result of this offer.
How often do I see this bull? All the time.
I see what you're saying, but there's a small nitpick here at play. Now, we all know by now you don't get the equivalent of $240 worth of games any time you spend it all on one game. That's not how it works, as I'm sure you sadly noticed. It also doesn't matter if you think horizons was worth $45. It wasnt three quarters of a game, but that's how screwed up DLC prices are today.
Just like only two of ESO's biggest expansions--called chapters--were $30 each upon release. Both put together don't even equate to near half of the base game, but they each costed half of it's price on release.
I stand with you that your logic is how it should work. But it doesn't. That argument is something the gaming industry as a whole needs to hear.
It would normally make no sense for the CEO of a major game development company to not know how one of their games is sold and marketed, but it's not actually that surprising considering Braben's involvement in the Elite franchise so far. He shows up once a year, talks about all sorts of cool new "features" like scooping from gas giants and so on, yet is surprisingly quiet about the current state of gameplay in Elite. It's almost like he's deliberately avoiding going into detail about how the gameplay currently works and would prefer to talk about theoretical ideas which have no relationship to the actual gameplay and most likely never will at this rate. In that context, i.e., being completely disconnected from Elite gameplay since basically the game has launched I have no problem believing that Braben does not, in fact, understand the current state of Elite.
It would still be very strange given that FD has taken the revenue they collected for Horizons and LEPs and used that to subsidize development of Planet Coaster and JWE instead of developing Elite properly. I mean I would still expect him to know where the revenue FD is collecting is coming from and how the bills are paid. It's all there in the Annual Report if anyone is interested and I'm sure Braben is very interested in where his company's revenue comes from. Nonetheless we have his quoted statements from the article which clearly indicate that Braben does not, in fact, know how Elite was marketed and sold.
If that's the case it's a serious issue and he should have it corrected immediately. It was discussed at length on the forums in another thread so FD and presumably Braben must at this point be aware of the issue. The only explanation for it to still be in print as part of that interview is if he did in fact say that and the quote is accurate. Unless it's corrected or retracted then the statement stands and should be taken at face value.
I find it amusing that some people are trying to use "well Brabaen said we're getting more paid content" or "Braben said they're working on space legs" and so on in reference to vauge statements that could mean basically nothing yet refuse to believe a quoted statement from Braben in an interview. I mean really if you want to quote Braben go ahead, but then everything he says is fair game, not just the vague statements that some people prefer to latch onto.
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There is definitely some truth to this and there is rarely, if ever, a proper valuation of game expansions or DLC content relative to the base game. In the case of BF4 the expansions were certainly not equal in content to the base game and the other benefits such as battlepacks or early-access to the expansion betas were marginal value at best. At the same time although I don't feel that the BF4 premium was really worth $120 USD you could certainly argue it was $90 USD value and possibly more. It is however very difficult to envision FD developing anywhere near $240 USD of total value even using the reduced "value" most players expect from game expansions in general. That is really why we're in this mess in the first place, there was no way FD could sell another paid expansion for Season 3 after players saw what we got for $45 in terms of Horizons content, therefore Beyond had to be a "free" season because the paid expansion (or rather, pre-paid in the case of Horizons) content model wasn't going to work for them any longer. They had burned through all the remaining goodwill among the playerbase and knew that players weren't going to fall for pre-ordering a full "season" in advance again like most of us did with Horizons. The issue now is what FD could possibly release for paid content that would come anywhere close to giving the LEP owners a remotely fair amount of value going forward. FD's lack of any actual details on this point are rather concerning for all the reasons already stated in this thread. I suppose we'll see what FD delivers for Elite paid content by the end of 2018 but I am really not expecting much here.
FD can of course surprise me here, much like how I have been very impressed with the Krait and had little to no expectations for that ship before it launched. In fact they've got $12.50 USD worth of engine colors and ship nameplates out of me just on the basis of how much I enjoy flying the Krait so I am not adverse to buying more content from FD if it is of an appropriately high quality. Still I would rather set my expectations based on the pattern of prior behavior we've seen from FD in terms of Elite development rather than having unrealistic expectations that would most likely result in further disappointment.
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How many people?
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