Why are all "conservative" factions dictatorships?

[WR3ND]

Lol, being in the US, I see the dems as full socialist/marxists and the gop as further left than Kennedy dems. There are some on the right (that is US right) that are for smaller government, but they are a minority.

I've been upset that all the "democratic" factions seem to be like socialists or worker's unions and etc. I've never seen a democratic faction that stood for social and economic liberty.

Being a "dirty, no good liberal," the Democrats aren't far enough "left" for my tastes. They're too supportive of big business interests and not supportive enough of individuals and public infrastructure, in action. I'll refrain from telling you what I think of the Republicans, but I will say that I don't think either are what I would prefer.

 

[goemon]

I'm talking about party names vs their government types. And as I said. I've never seen a progressive or liberal party(i.e. have those words in their names) be anything but democratic, and never seen any conservative party be anything but a dictatorship

liberty party of borasetani. guess what, it is a dictatorship.

 

[drkaii]

"Dictatorship", in this game, is assumed to be fascist, neo-fascist or pseudo-fascist in nature. Other political alignments that we 21st century Westerners would also consider to be "dictatorships" have specific categories of their own e.g. communists, theocracies and (perhaps) corporations.

Fascist-aligned dictatorships have historically liked to model themselves and label themselves as "conservative", so that's normal, I guess. So your main complaint here is the lack of procedurally-generated factions that call themselves "Conservatives" but are Democratic/Political, rather than Dictatorship.

There probably are some "conservative democrat" political parties out there... just as not all "Federal" factions are aligned with the Federation. It's simply much less probable.

Huge misconception that fascism and conservatism are linked. Maybe the coder who did this fell for that same misconception.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Not going to speculate, but it almost seems like my game, the place I come to to get away from politics, is trying to make some weird political statement, that doesn't even make sense.

It's probably unintentional, but a bit bothersome. Every conservative minded person I know despises, thanks to their political leanings, dictatorships and i admire them for it.

(p.s. all progressive parties are democracies)

I think FD have done a pretty good job with describing the government types however everyone has a personal idea and often it's just a broad brush where they lump stuff together or have a prejudice, bias etc. Something like all Communists are EVIL. Anarchy means GRIEF. Democracy means CORRUPTION or whatever. Those are just random examples and could easily be Communism Good! Anarchy individual freedom and responsibility. Democracy equality. So players and even developers will have a hard time avoiding personal bias, common sense (which is not the same as good sense) and so forth. Some people will refuse to accept that there can be such a thing as a goodly dictator or a productive commune and equally so about other political stuffs like democracies. I'm kind of saying people view stuff in often blinkered way without looking at a broader view and stuff and they bring their personal interpretation or ingrained cultural view with them especially when they see words like Dictator or Conservative.

I hope that gives you a pause for thought when you next feel bothered. It's the meaning you apply to the label and not so much the plain defnition.

ED describes a dictaorship as

'An organisation that engages authoritarian actives in order to establish and maintain absolute control over its chosen field of interest'.

That's very broad and could be applied to many contemporary political schools of think and methods of behavior. However, we are not just looking at a single instance in ED, we are looking a 100s and 1000s of populated planets spread across light years. Consequently no two democracies, dictatorships, corporate governments will be the same or behave in exactly the same way. As wild example a democracy on one planet may denie Men the vote but still be labelled a Democracy whereas a Dictatorship on another Planet could insist that all are treated equally under the law.

Ramble over. Time for a cuppa.





I'm not sure if thsi helps.

 

[drkaii]

liberty party of borasetani. guess what, it is a dictatorship.

Interesting! If it turns out I've just been in the wrong corner of the bubble and my data is off, I'll be happy

 

[drkaii]

I think FD have done a pretty good job with describing the government types however everyone has a personal idea and often it's just a broad brush where they lump stuff together or have a prejudice, bias etc. Something like all Communists are EVIL. Anarchy means GRIEF. Democracy means CORRUPTION or whatever. Those are just random examples and could easily be Communism Good! Anarchy individual freedom and responsibility. Democracy equality. So players and even developers will have a hard time avoiding personal bias, common sense (which is not the same as good sense) and so forth. Some people will refuse to accept that there can be such a thing as a goodly dictator or a productive commune and equally so about other political stuffs like democracies. I'm kind of saying people view stuff in often blinkered way without looking at a broader view and stuff and they bring their personal interpretation or ingrained cultural view with them especially when they see words like Dictator or Conservative.

I hope that gives you a pause for thought when you next feel bothered. It's the meaning you apply to the label and not so much the plain defnition.

ED describes a dictaorship as

'An organisation that engages authoritarian actives in order to establish and maintain absolute control over its chosen field of interest'.

That's very broad and could be applied to many contemporary political schools of think and methods of behavior. However, we are not just looking at a single instance in ED, we are looking a 100s and 1000s of populated planets spread across light years. Consequently no two democracies, dictatorships, corporate governments will be the same or behave in exactly the same way. As wild example a democracy on one planet may denie Men the vote but still be labelled a Democracy whereas a Dictatorship on another Planet could insist that all are treated equally under the law.

Ramble over. Time for a cuppa.





I'm not sure if thsi helps.

It helps in general and I mostly agree. But doesn't solve the original point, why conservatism is lumped with dictator.

If someone can find me a democratic conservative party be sure to tell me where!

 

[Gully Foyle]

I'm confused, where can I see 'progressive' versus 'conservative' dictatorships? I know independent/federal/imperial government types have different descriptions, but had no idea there were further divisions made.

I don't think there is such a thing as progressive dictatorships. its a contradiction in terms.
Utopian Anarchies however very possible I like to think.
Calling a dictatorship conservative perhaps is FD showing there usual British skill at understating, lol.
o7

 

[drkaii]

I don't think there is such a thing as progressive dictatorships. its a contradiction in terms.
Utopian Anarchies however very possible I like to think.
o7

I'd say a conservative dictatorship is a cotradiction in terms too! At least by today's standards

Saw your edit, you troll

 

[Ben Ryder]

It helps in general and I mostly agree. But doesn't solve the original point, why conservatism is lumped with dictator.

If someone can find me a democratic conservative party be sure to tell me where!

Have you got the ED definition of conservative to hand?

I remember seeing a table months ago with all the definitions listed. It might just be that that's where it fell when they were balancing the matrix of descriptions.

 

[Gully Foyle]

liberty party of borasetani. guess what, it is a dictatorship.

I believe that is like how North Korea calls themselves democratic but actually the truth is the exact opposite. Call it propaganda.

 

[Matzov]

I think FD have done a pretty good job with describing the government types however everyone has a personal idea and often it's just a broad brush where they lump stuff together or have a prejudice, bias etc. Something like all Communists are EVIL. Anarchy means GRIEF. Democracy means CORRUPTION or whatever. Those are just random examples and could easily be Communism Good! Anarchy individual freedom and responsibility. Democracy equality. So players and even developers will have a hard time avoiding personal bias, common sense (which is not the same as good sense) and so forth. Some people will refuse to accept that there can be such a thing as a goodly dictator or a productive commune and equally so about other political stuffs like democracies. I'm kind of saying people view stuff in often blinkered way without looking at a broader view and stuff and they bring their personal interpretation or ingrained cultural view with them especially when they see words like Dictator or Conservative.

I hope that gives you a pause for thought when you next feel bothered. It's the meaning you apply to the label and not so much the plain defnition.

ED describes a dictaorship as

'An organisation that engages authoritarian actives in order to establish and maintain absolute control over its chosen field of interest'.

That's very broad and could be applied to many contemporary political schools of think and methods of behavior. However, we are not just looking at a single instance in ED, we are looking a 100s and 1000s of populated planets spread across light years. Consequently no two democracies, dictatorships, corporate governments will be the same or behave in exactly the same way. As wild example a democracy on one planet may denie Men the vote but still be labelled a Democracy whereas a Dictatorship on another Planet could insist that all are treated equally under the law.

Ramble over. Time for a cuppa.





I'm not sure if thsi helps.

Totally agree.

 

[Ben Ryder]

I believe that is like how North Korea calls themselves democratic but actually the truth is the exact opposite. Call it propaganda.

Have you ever been there?

 

[goemon]

If someone can find me a democratic conservative party be sure to tell me where!

Chini Convervatives are a Minor Faction with Goverment Type: Confederacy

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

Yeah... I think if you go far enough in EITHER direction you end up with anarchy, for different reasons. In the game these things probably shouldn't be limited since it's all at such a basic level anyway. I mean at a certain point saying you're 'conservative' or 'liberal' could mean almost anything.

EDIT: For clarity, for example, one could be economically conservative and socially liberal.

People think the political spectrum is a line, it is not.

It is a circle, and if you go far enough left or right you end up at dictatorship.

I also think that you are conflating "ideology" with "political system". There is a certain irony in names like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea"

 

[goemon]

I believe that is like how North Korea calls themselves democratic but actually the truth is the exact opposite. Call it propaganda.

i was replying to drkaii's assumption, that there are no dictatorship with "those words in their names". there are dictatorships with "liberty" in their name. as well as the assumption, that all minor factions with "conservative" in their name are dictatorships (there aren't, see my last post).

 

[Ben Ryder]

It helps in general and I mostly agree. But doesn't solve the original point, why conservatism is lumped with dictator.

If someone can find me a democratic conservative party be sure to tell me where!

I'm sure we can crack this (if people can leave real life out of it and consider the distant future in a sci fi world or make belive). Here are a couple of other definitions that might helps get closer to FDs reasoning.

Alliance
Authoritarian:
A Faction that uses a top-Down management style in order to maintain a tight hold over its assets.

Empire
Dictator
A Faction that has been granted absolute power over a specific area of influence by decree of the Imperial Senate

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Chini Convervatives are a Minor Faction with Goverment Type: Confederacy

Good Job! Faster than a speeding bullet! One thread that could easily have been derailed saved and answered in one!

ED definitions



Confederacy
Independent
Unionist
An organisation that engages in activities that are designed to strengthen ties with other independent groups in order to maintain a certain level of independence from the three Great Powers


Federation
Venutrist
A Faction that, in conjunction with a number of similarly aligned organisations, promotes their agenda by manipulating the application of capital being channeled in to local business and social ventures.


Alliance
Unionist
An organisation that engages in activities designed to strengthen ties with other independent groups in order to increase the influence of the Alliance of Independent Systems.

 

[goemon]

@drkaii as an explorer, you should well know that procedurally generation produces all kinds of wonders... I'm sure we'll find an anarchy with "law party" in their name, if we keep looking long enough,

 

[drkaii]

@drkaii as an explorer, you should well know that procedurally generation produces all kinds of wonders... I'm sure we'll find an anarchy with "law party" in their name, if we keep looking long enough,

I suspected that I might be wrong, but after finding the same pattern more than 10 times I jumped to a conclusion. And the scientist in me is appalled

Seeing as my original assumption was incorrect, I leave you to do the honours of closing this discussion

 

[Yaffle]

Hello all

Please stay on topic and away from real-life politics.

 

[Yaffle]

Closed at OP's request