Why did people take exploration ships on the Gnosis?

[CMDR MICHAEL AAGAARD]

wesmacdon:

I don't think you'll get much disagreement that this "discussion" has run its course.

You asked a question, you provided a made-up strawman answer to your question, you were given the correct answers to your question, you repeatedly rejected those answers and endlessly repeated the incorrect answer that you are strangely unable to let go of, and you wonder why people start to get frustrated.

I suggest you stop, take a break, calm down, then try re-reading all this and try to take in what so many people have been trying to tell you.

 

[askavir]

wesmacdon:

I don't think you'll get much disagreement that this "discussion" has run its course.

You asked a question, you provided a made-up strawman answer to your question, you were given the correct answers to your question, you repeatedly rejected those answers and endlessly repeated the incorrect answer that you are strangely unable to let go of, and you wonder why people start to get frustrated.

I suggest you stop, take a break, calm down, then try re-reading all this and try to take in what so many people have been trying to tell you.

Stop being toxic!

Repped.

 

[Nadreck]

My own reason for going in was to test the theory that FDev had left an "easter egg" (Raxxla) in a closed-off area with a secret entrance that nobody had yet found - and that FDev had now realised that their puzzle was too difficult to solve (as with the Fomidine Rift mystery).

The new locks were odd, but perhaps were an attempt to channel us in a specific direction once inside? A bit implausible, but there was only one way to find out.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Moderators - you really should keep an eye on these threads. This tends to be the level of debate they descend to. We've now just reached one line insults. No attempt ti engage in respectful debate at all. Again, I would request you consider closing this thread. It has long outlived any level of useful discussion.

Forum member.

Have you reported any posts in this thread to bring them to our attention?

Oh, that'll be a NO.

 

[Winterwalker]

rejected those answers

Rejected - and I'm with the OP - because those answers are based on utterly incorrect information.

(1) No 'explorers' were stomped on. EVERYONE was stomped on.
As of right now that stomp is no longer stompy .. again, for everyone

(2) If you read Gnosis itinerary sheet it also openly states, in station services, that Gnosis is an unlicensed research vessel, expect accidents .. not only that, it also states that embarkation is entirely at your own risk. [up]

 

[Frank Craft]

wesmacdon:

I don't think you'll get much disagreement that this "discussion" has run its course.

You asked a question, you provided a made-up strawman answer to your question, you were given the correct answers to your question, you repeatedly rejected those answers and endlessly repeated the incorrect answer that you are strangely unable to let go of, and you wonder why people start to get frustrated.

I suggest you stop, take a break, calm down, then try re-reading all this and try to take in what so many people have been trying to tell you.

Repped.

I was going to post an image of the Sealion meme, but I don't want to bend the forum rules, so I didn't.

 

[bitstorm]

The development roadmap (squadron carriers) changed too. Things change but again no secret was made, that the explorable area in target, by the time Gnosis jumped was three systems big. This is a small target, odds of missing it inherently rose.



Again that's not true. Outotz st-i d9-6 was unflyable by anybody for a little while .. Thargoid attack.
An hour later you could/can fly it shieldless.

But that was when Frontier fixed it.

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be lambasting explorers for taking exploration ships, I thought this was the point of the thread?

 

[Winterwalker]

I was going to post an image of the Sealion meme, but I don't want to bend the forum rules, so I didn't.

Feel free to comment on post #442 though.

 

[Winterwalker]

But that was when Frontier fixed it.

I'd say it also emulated an attack effectively; Hit hard, then when the target is beaten don't waste your energy. (Sun Tzu)

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be lambasting explorers for not taking weapons and a big shield, I thought this was the topic of the thread?

It's not lambasting to say you stand a better chance of surviving - as an explorer in a Gnosis survey attempting to enter a hostile territory - if you B rate your modules.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I can't believe what I read on these forums at times. The utter entitlement, the delusional minds of people thinking they are more important then someone else and should be special cases so much that FDev should inject special content in for you personally and will change their own development plans to suite you.

Good luck in finding any game that does that.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I got scoffed at by quite a number of explorers in the past on these forums for posting about my armed and shielded exploration ship(s). Ever since I got blown up by a rabid PvP'er in Shinrarta Dezhra flying a then paper exploration-fitted Clipper (pre-Engineers), I vowed never again to fly a paper ship.

Even suggesting that explorers shouldn't fly paper ships usually results in an amount of scoffing - I don't understand it. Hubris? Arrogance? Elitism? A stubborn refusal to accept there's actual dangers in the ED universe other than players intent on blowing you up?

(side note: Even the USS Enterprise in her various incarnations - a ship meant for exploration foremost - is heavily armed and shielded!)

 

[Gully Foyle]

I wish I had the time some of the armchair experts have....

[video=youtube;5XcKBmdfpWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs[/video]

 

[Sylow]

It's funny - I've genuinely only just realised what I'm basically saying is although I had a glimmer of hope still for something more, my experience of the game over the last 20 months had limited my expectations to a point where I couldn't actually conceive the possibility that something innovative might happen. That's actually pretty sad.

.
I agree that it's sad that it took FD so long to get over the "everything Thargoid is behind the NHSS walll". I fully agree on that, but i am glad that they finally got around that. And it's basically my message all the time already: we got something new. New content, which actually is logical.
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So yes, that's where FD is to be blamed, it took them way too long to get something like this into the game, so people did not expect anything like that any more. But at the same time, i find it amazing that people jump into the unexplored, to find unexpected things, then are crying rivers when something unexpected actually happens. There were warning signs all over the place. No matter if the jump would've happened into the Cone sector or not, combat and destruction was to be expected.
.
But i guess i also should now start crying. Last night the Gnosis blew me up. I am still not sure why, i guess slivers from my shard cannon scraped it. So off to detention and goodbye to my crew member it was. But alas, things happen and unlike those who were destroyed at the start, i actually have to fly there again by myself. It was my own mistake, no sense in contacting support or anything.
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But really, i find the mechanics change to be welcome. I guess in the future we'll also have similar fights around space stations, which is something the game urgently needed. (Now finally, some years in, we might actually fight around space stations the way old trailers suggested! ) For anybody who says that it took them way too long: i am fully on your side. But for those who complain about the actual implementation of something new, i am sorry, i have to disagree. (Almost) anything new in the game is welcome in my eyes. This one was a clear improvement of the current "Thargoids attack and are very dangerous, but you can just fly by and they can't do anything" situation.
.

 

[askavir]

I can't believe what I read on these forums at times. The utter entitlement, the delusional minds of people thinking they are more important then someone else and should be special cases so much that FDev should inject special content in for you personally and will change their own development plans to suite you.

Good luck in finding any game that does that.

Indeed, it's like if some group of players asked FD if they could go somewhere in the game map and FD had accepted it and advertised it even though they never intended to allow it! The unbelievable nerve of those players!

 

[Sylow]

There's also mining equipment in the game and additional fuel tanks in the game.

Should we fit those to all our ships too, just in case something happens which makes them invaluable?

.
Nothing like that was ever hinted at in the number of news we got regarding that trip. And despite it did not happen, i had some mining lances, collector limpets and a refinery as stored modules, which i intended to transfer there once i arrived. That part i even prepared for before the Thargoid news struck, which was when my Asp was halfway there. Only when all the Thargoid news came on, i brought my Asp back and switched to an AX ship.
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I can't see into the future. But i can prepare for it. I also first expected it to be a "now collect stuff to repair the ship" event and prepared for that. Things turned out differently, but we still had several days of warning beforehand. So please, don't try to claim that the presence of Thargoids there surprised you.
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Also, for all your cried with guardian weapons: Thargoid scouts, the ships which now actually are around the Gnosis, can be destroyed with regular weapons. You don't even need AX weapons. And if you want specialized equipment: AX multicannons are not locked. Everybody can go and buy them, and they actually are the best weapon against the Thargoid scouts. (For bigger Thargoids, AX missiles also are not locked and bring the punch necessary. Guardian equipment really is not that important. )
.

 

[Valorin]

It's been said a few times now hasn't it.

But in Elite Dangerous, there was no way, no way at all, any Thargoid could ever attack you unless you "opted in".

There are lots of Thargoids everywhere. For example they're all over Maia, yet you can travel through Maia for months on end and no Thargoid will ever attack you.

At the end of the day ED is a game, with it's own set of rules. It is really cool that Frontier have changed the rules, it really is, but it might have been better to do that not when you have perhaps the biggest amount of explorers in one place, and not do it in an event that was billed for and planned by explorers to do exploration stuff.


Let's put it this way. This event aside. If you as a player wanted to explore and asked advice on the Exploration forum, do I need huge shield and weapons to explore through systems with Thargoids. You would be (rightly) told no, because the game mechanics are such that you won't be attacked. You would not be told yes you need them, because Frontier might add new mechanics at any moment.

And if you had taken a strong shield anyway, you'd be back asking why folk told you to take a massive shield and weapons when the game is set up in such a way that nothing can attack you.

As I say folk play games within the constraints of the rules of the game, this is why many didn't not take super engineered combat ships.

I think even the folk who came to shoot Thargoids did not expect what happened, they thought they'd go out drop into a USS and combat there.

Wait... You are saying it's a bad thing that the Thargoids attacked the ship directly and we weren't safe? Like, we trusted in the fact that engaging the enemy was always our choice because it has been before? I mean, I have been shot and lost a few millions n stuff... Well. Actually you are right, you can be angry about it. I am certainly not.

I love it. But hey, that's a matter of opinion.

 

[stephen_usher]

Half the people on Gnosis probably 'jumped over a permit lock' .. already. On the way to Gnosis! o7

People were having problems routing because there are a couple of errant permit systems, between current position and the bubble? Long range (explorer) ships probably jumped right over. Mission accomplished!

lol. I'm sorry. Kinda.

Actually, what I was hoping for was being put in a location with a small number of systems with a large number of other commanders with no escape and the requirement to work together to survive. Basically an expedition pressure cooker, cut off from the rest of the galaxy for a month with some defending, some foraging and just surviving.

As I've noted before, I have no problem with the attacks, it was expected, as was a hyperdiction. It was mere 12Ly jump and the ability to come and go as I pleased which was the issue and the disappointment.

 

[bitstorm]

It's not lambasting to say you stand a better chance of surviving - as an explorer in a Gnosis survey attempting to enter a hostile territory - if you B rate your modules.

Sure and it just comes back to "no game mechanics exist in the game that require that".

Which would be a good enough argument around advice for ship outfitting 99.99% of the time.

 

[vinvcm]

I took my exploration Krait in order to experience the huge rush you get waiting to make that big jump into the huge unknown, the finding yourself in the centre of a storm with a flat tyre and no spare.
All was not lost however, ... I did manage to escape to a nearby planet, where I collected a decent amount of thargoid materials and a full cargo of meta alloys.
The highlight though, was returning to the Gnosis and being set upon by a bunch of nasty thargoids who decided that cargo belonged to them. A rebuy later, I am once again docked on the Gnosis, wondering when and where the next adventure will take me.

Yeah, I was a little peeved at what went down, but hey .. the clues where there .......
I still enjoyed this journey.

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

That's not how stealth works though. All NPCs that are facing you can detect your general direction even if they can't get a target lock. This is because low heat sig is only range based stealth. The scouts are usually close enough to detect your radar blip, so you need to actually spam the heat sink button as you undocking to buy time. And once you are unmoored, you need to fly a nice corkscrew to evade once they notice you. If you're cool running with low heat gain (DBX) then you won't need much help from heat sinks. Silent running also helps here.

Another thing I noticed is that once you go into Silent Running, they will still pursue you but as a much slower pace. They stop boosting. In essence is causes the AI to switch from aggressive attack mode, to cautious search mode. I led a chase through an asteroid field in a Keelback with System Authority for almost an hour doing this and watching their behavior. The Vipers were faster than the Keelback, so there was no way I could outrun them normally. By going into Silent Running and weaving through asteroids, it was enough to slow them down so I could finally get away. I've been using this technique for awhile in CZs combined with heat sinks because what happens there is that they'll lose interest in you and switch targets. Prior to 2.1, they even used to chase the heat sinks. Used it once when my Cobra Mk III was literally disabled by missile spam and the only thing that saved me was FA momentum, and silent running. Gave me enough of a lead that I was able to run the repair shutdown and fix the ship to jump out with 1% hull. That was back when they added in MRPs and missiles shredded components quickly.


Obsidian Ant showcased how to stealthily take samples from Thargoids using Silent Running. I tested it out myself with my Exploration Asp which runs very cool (as cool as a default DBS) and it definitely works.

[video=youtube;QyrqKcgE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyrqKcgE[/video]


There is a way to go into full stealth mode where your blip disappears completely, but it's impractical and requires FA off to pull off (since you're disabling your thrusters and without FA off, you'll instantly stop.) I'm not sure it it works on AI, but it does work on players.