Why do NPCs play by blatantly different rules than players?

[Lheim]

They can spawn in from nowhere, twist around like snakes, and interdict you before you even spot their canned comm chatter.

If you drop supercruise to try and lose them, they manage to follow your wake unerringly within seconds.

If you supercruise away from them again, they spawn in front of you, drop behind, snake-spin again, and you're interdicted again.

They don't seem to suffer 'the spin of doom' from interdicting you.

They can spam chaff for days, or at least as long as whatever internal cooldown they have tells them it's okay to.

Farming a hazres or combat zone or comp.nav all day? That's fine, until the game decides a fleet will spawn in on top of you.

There are loads of ways that NPCs, in fact, 'cheat'. And it makes the game less fun.. because the ordinary tactics you'd use to deal with other ships just don't apply. You can't wait out an opponent's supply of SCBs. You can't outmaneuver an opponent in supercruise because the game has rolled the dice and decided you're going to be interdicted this run, no matter what, and no tactic will prevent it. I can't be the only one who finds this frustrating and wishes I had more realistic opponents that I could actually counter and use strategy other than 'Destroy!' against.

I

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

Welcome to Elite Dangerous

I can do all those things, including spawning a fleet on top of you.

 

[Lheim]

Welcome to Elite Dangerous

I can do all those things, including spawning a fleet on top of you.

Oh, honestly, that's always the excuse. Dangerous would be fun - if it weren't in the form of magic teleporting NPCs. I don't recall the last 'shooter' game I played having teleporting NPCs - no, they let me seat-of-the-pants my way through hails of bullets, but at least I knew where the enemies were, and they moved sensibly as real characters would.

 

[Bacalao]

We aren't really playing by their rules either. When was the last time an NPC boosted to chase or started a scan outside of 1km? When was the last time you lost a bounty to an NPC? When was the last time an NPC could aim fixed weapons and didn't just fit turrets. I'm all for players and NPCs being on a level playing field, but it needs to be completely level.
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They do all those things to try to emulate players or at least give a similar effect. They are improving over time, they've gotten significantly better in season 1 and I expect the improvement to continue through season 2. I understand your frustration though, as a mostly Solo/Group player I'd really like the NPCs to be more player-like.

 

[Lheim]

We aren't really playing by their rules either. When was the last time an NPC boosted to chase or started a scan outside of 1km? When was the last time you lost a bounty to an NPC? When was the last time an NPC could aim fixed weapons and didn't just fit turrets. I'm all for players and NPCs being on a level playing field, but it needs to be completely level.
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They do all those things to try to emulate players or at least give a similar effect. They are improving over time, they've gotten significantly better in season 1 and I expect the improvement to continue through season 2. I understand your frustration though, as a mostly Solo/Group player I'd really like the NPCs to be more player-like.

I'd be all for it if they didn't have unlimited ammo and teleport. Let them be viscious; the 'stupid' has to go. It reminds me of how the Civ franchise adds 'difficulty' by pumping up AI production bonuses on higher levels.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

I don't think they teleport, they just chain interdict you.

When I PVP, which is fairly rare, I can chain interdict someone trying to get away from me, no "magic" needed.

And they are only sort of ammoless. If you waited around for long enough in a CZ, I guess you could say they should be out of ammo by then, but in a typical encounter, why would they ever run out of ammo?

They suffer the spin of doom, I see it all the time out in the Pegasus War, where I interdict hundreds of ships a week, and get interdicted by over a hundred ships a week.
It happens with about the same regularity as I get the spin ride. But then, I have done countless interdictions in the last year.

 

[Kowboat]

I don't think they teleport, they just chain interdict you.

They absolutely teleport, both in SC and real space.

When I PVP, which is fairly rare, I can chain interdict someone trying to get away from me, no "magic" needed.

The difference is that NPCs can do it in seconds, because they don't have to spool back up and find you, they just magically appear at the perfect distance to snag you.

And they are only sort of ammoless. If you waited around for long enough in a CZ, I guess you could say they should be out of ammo by then, but in a typical encounter, why would they ever run out of ammo?

I like how frag cannons are the best anti-shield weapons in the game, but only for NPCs because they can fire them forever with no ammo or heat concerns.

They suffer the spin of doom, I see it all the time out in the Pegasus War, where I interdict hundreds of ships a week, and get interdicted by over a hundred ships a week.
It happens with about the same regularity as I get the spin ride. But then, I have done countless interdictions in the last year.

So interdiction is a garbage mechanic even for NPCs. Good to know!

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

If I am chasing you down and you are about to escape, I can jump to super cruise BEFORE you, as you are mass locked, and I am not. I know the lock ratio between our ships, and I can time my jump, and I am not even a computer. (You will notices they are damn good with PAs too, with the computer aiming) And yes, I will be right behind you to interdict you again.

Teleporting? What are you on about? I see them rubber band around, but that is network lag, not cheating. Sucks to miss with the Hammers because of rubber banding, but oh well.

Frag cannons? More than 30 shots in a fight? Either you take forever to kill something, or you let them shoot at you, or... oh hell, you are a crappy pilot mate. Learn to fly.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Because no developer was able to write a decent AI until today, which is why they added godlike abilities to compensate their stupidity.

That's basically the reason.

 

[Valethar]

The devs built in some 'advantages' for the AI. Yes, they cheat, sometimes blatantly so. Until the state of AI programming rivals that of the human brain, expect the AI to be given some extra leeway that we don't enjoy.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

The devs built in some 'advantages' for the AI. Yes, they cheat, sometimes blatantly so. Until the state of AI programming rivals that of the human brain, expect the AI to be given some extra leeway that we don't enjoy.

When a competent pilot can burn down 100+ ships an hour in a CG, the computer needs all the help it can get. 36 pilots over 3 hrs, 100 per hour was the average.

 

[The Tick]

They can spawn in from nowhere, twist around like snakes, and interdict you before you even spot their canned comm chatter.

If you drop supercruise to try and lose them, they manage to follow your wake unerringly within seconds.

If you supercruise away from them again, they spawn in front of you, drop behind, snake-spin again, and you're interdicted again.

They don't seem to suffer 'the spin of doom' from interdicting you.

They can spam chaff for days, or at least as long as whatever internal cooldown they have tells them it's okay to.

Farming a hazres or combat zone or comp.nav all day? That's fine, until the game decides a fleet will spawn in on top of you.

There are loads of ways that NPCs, in fact, 'cheat'. And it makes the game less fun.. because the ordinary tactics you'd use to deal with other ships just don't apply. You can't wait out an opponent's supply of SCBs. You can't outmaneuver an opponent in supercruise because the game has rolled the dice and decided you're going to be interdicted this run, no matter what, and no tactic will prevent it. I can't be the only one who finds this frustrating and wishes I had more realistic opponents that I could actually counter and use strategy other than 'Destroy!' against.

I

While I can confirm some points (like a pirate NPC that has interdicted you after jumping into a system magically appearing behind you when you are dropping out of supercruise at a station in the same system), I have to disagree with some others.
- 'Outwaiting' an oppononts SCBs works for me, at least if can equip class 3 lasers. Then even the shields of NPC Pythons or Anacondas go down, eventually
- Outflying an NPC that is trying to interdict works also. It's difficult though, you have to deeply understand the interdiction mechanic. Especially when you are slowing down during your final station approach you are easy pickings. When I have to avoid the interdiction desperately, I can always overshoot my target, then do a U turn for the slow part. Even better is to get the planet behind your back. That way, the NPC cannot, at least in a reasonable timeframe, get behind you.
- CZs are difficult, indeed. Sometimes you just run out of luck, e.g. when a bunch of new opposing NPCs happen to enter the battlefield exactly behind you. If you are the first enemy on their scanner, then it's no wonder that they target you first. The trick is to know this mechanic, and always stay close to your allies. Never fly alone .
- In HazRes, just never carry cargo, and never let your reputation with a local faction drop below unfriendly. This way, nobody attacks you on sight, and you can pick your enemies. Only attack that wing of 3 deadly Pythons if your are really sure you can do this

TL;DR: I'm happy with the NPC challenge at the moment. Even after 1000+ hours in the game, I'm still learning . Long range smuggling missions have become fun!

 

[Arindor]

NPCs that drag you out of SC, then ask for cargo without scanning to see that you're not carrying anything, then proceed to shoot you, is particulalry annoying.

 

[Laste]

"Even better is to get the planet behind your back. That way, the NPC cannot, at least in a reasonable timeframe, get behind you."

I've had multiple interdictions when coming from the planet side. It's how i approach large stations so they open in front of me. I get close to the planet until the station is directly overhead, then i pull up hard in order to be 90 degrees to the planet. I still get nailed by npcs. And if i don't see anybody in supercruise before i drop down, they magically appear from the land of oz to shoot at me, after i already have permission to dock.

 

[DrSaphron]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned NPCs interdicting you from the side! Until I ditched power play this would happen to me 2 to 3 times per jump and it got very old very fast.

 

[SirAdelaide]

They cheat because FD can't be bothered making a simulation. ED is an arcade game that simply looks like a simulation. Almost everything is hard coded 'cheating' rather than simulation, from AI ammo to market mechanics. That's why I keep finding myself exploring; it's the least 'cheaty' part of the game because it is static.

 

[Laste]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned NPCs interdicting you from the side! Until I ditched power play this would happen to me 2 to 3 times per jump and it got very old very fast.

and above, and below

 

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

NPCs that drag you out of SC, then ask for cargo without scanning to see that you're not carrying anything, then proceed to shoot you, is particulalry annoying.

in this respect they pretty much follow player intelligence

 

[The Tick]

"Even better is to get the planet behind your back. That way, the NPC cannot, at least in a reasonable timeframe, get behind you."

I've had multiple interdictions when coming from the planet side. It's how i approach large stations so they open in front of me. I get close to the planet until the station is directly overhead, then i pull up hard in order to be 90 degrees to the planet. I still get nailed by npcs. And if i don't see anybody in supercruise before i drop down, they magically appear from the land of oz to shoot at me, after i already have permission to dock.

I agree to your last sentence. On the others I have multiple incidents where NPCs played by our rules. Those long range smuggling missions tought me a lot about NPC interdictions . Especially when I was hunted by 2 or 3 per system.
Examples/anecdotes (so this happened to me in game):
- I can quite safely refuel my ship right after jumping into a system, even if I dive straight into the star. If I enter the corona deeply enough, most NPCs seem to be 'afraid' of pulling me out of supercruise. They are waiting patiently behind me until I turn around and leave the corona.
- Sometimes, I can trick them into crashing into the star. If the star is directly behind me and I'm so close to it that it occupies a wide angle behind my back.
- Zigzagging works for me when approaching a station. It's tricky, though, and it seems to be enough for an NPC to be behind you for a fraction of a second when turning. So I agree that this looks like cheating sometimes.

Please take into account that it's sometimes very hard to tell from looking at the radar after the interdiction has started if an NPC was behind you or at your side when the interdiction started.

I agree that the time between NPCs spawning in SC and them interdicting you is pretty short, not what a CMDR would do. But at the same time, NPCs never consider their chances of winning. Or how would you explain that we get interdicted by Sidewinders .

 

[Aratoth]

I agree, I love ED, but in the name of logic, consistency, physics....yeah please make everything equal.....
OK, so ships spawning in RES's is fair enough I suppose (it is after all a farming area) but otherwise...... yeah