Why does it make sense you can be allied to the Empire/Federation/Allience at the same time?

[DrDeathO5]

This post is made to provide an alternative debate and solution vs the 'trader vs pirate' / open vs solo discussions and maybe give role playing more 'meaning' / 'visibility' and consequence.

in relation to the question in the title a second question:
Why are we unable to tell if a player supports the Empire or the Feds?
We can see the colours of NPC turn green if they are friendly/allied but why stay all players orange?

I feel a lot of opportunities are missed.

f.e.

If i was a trader and Imperial ally into Fed space i would be a target.
What would be my reason to go to Fed space? Maybe to buy stuff that isn't available in Imperial stations...
At the same time if i traded only in imperial space it would be pretty safe and i wouldn't get attacked by 'pirates'
All players could play in open: thos who don't like PVP should stay deep in Fed space while at the same time enjoying some multiplayer interaction.
They should get warned if there was an intruder spotted etc...

I feel a lot of the discussions would get solved if we were able to tell the good from the bad guys.
Now we can switch sides endlessly without concequences and we don't know who protects or who attacks us?

All could live in open 'multiplayer' space.

Combat pilots on the edge of expansion
Allied Fed traders with a sense of adventure could try to find rare stuff in the empire and sell it illegally in black markets for a good price
People who don't wanna fight stay independant and can trade with more then 1 party.
etc....
Of course switching sides should still remain possible but you would have to work for it and earn back the trust.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

I do work for whoever pays me. If they consider me a friend that's on them. Its all about the almighty credit.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Defacto]

There's no war going on. Just because you're helping the Imperials doesn't mean that you are a free target in federal space.
The reason that every player is orange is because all Cmdrs are unaligned.

I would like more interaction because of faction relationship though. I think that's a great idea.

 

[Valethar]

There's absolutely no reason you can't be an ally to more than one, especially as a trader. The 'allied' status is more of a legal status indication than anything else. It shows that you follow the rules and obey the laws, and presumably (but not always if you can get away with it!) pay your taxes.

There is no open war between any of the three major galactic factions at present, so there's absolutely no reason for them to be hostile.

 

[Dominico]

There's absolutely no reason you can't be an ally to more than one, especially as a trader. The 'allied' status is more of a legal status indication than anything else. It shows that you follow the rules and obey the laws, and presumably (but not always if you an get away with it!) pay your taxes.

There is no open war between any of the three major galactic factions at present, so there's absolutely no reason for them to be hostile.

This guy. Maybe if war breaks out you will have to choose. But right now can you not be loved by french and english people for example? Same thing. Even more so since in game you are not military.

Now if you turned up in a faction specific ship shooting the other guys. That should have repercussions. N does to a tiny extent.

 

[DrDeathO5]

There's no war going on. Just because you're helping the Imperials doesn't mean that you are a free target in federal space.
The reason that every player is orange is because all Cmdrs are unaligned.

I would like more interaction because of faction relationship though. I think that's a great idea.

The problem we have now however is that everybody is a free target in any system which leads to all these traders vs pirates debates.
Seems nobody is happy and i fear we can not reach a good balance if FD isn't able to provide a difference between safe heavens and dangerous zones.
Being allied with a faction now has little consequence and therefore adds to the feeling of randomness and pointlessness many people have.

Of course there would be always choice left for people who would like to be independend.. and trade with all parties f.e.

 

[Phier]

Why do they tell us to fly to permit systems and nothing happens? Cause there is no meat on these bones.

And I'm pretty sure you can't be a officer in the US armed forces and the Russian ones at the same time (unless you are a spy). So yea lets not play that its logical.

 

[Zeeman]

Dual citizenships exist today, too...

Z...

 

[DrDeathO5]

This guy. Maybe if war breaks out you will have to choose. But right now can you not be loved by french and english people for example? Same thing. Even more so since in game you are not military.

Now if you turned up in a faction specific ship shooting the other guys. That should have repercussions. N does to a tiny extent.

But imagine you can maybe pick up a role as a cargo hauler for the Imperial army...
In order to finance a war or expansion the military would need provisions/buidling materials.
Certain jobs can be tied to a faction.

You would have f.e. have a choice to be always an imperial fighter who makes a full time job of killing 'feds' royal forces or maybe an independant force who goes to war if a 'civil war state' emerges for a short amount of time and picks the side who offers the best money etc..

It's not because people are offered the choice they would have to do it. To commit to one side would mean more protection in one are (imperial) and less protection in the enemies side (f.e. feds).
If you don't pick sides basicly you have no commitment, can go anywhere but you have to expect the unexpected always in the form of 'killers'/'pirates' etc...
People who commit to one side would have protection as a bonus and as a negative side limited space to fly around in (core of fed/imperial/allience space) unless they accept more danger in search of adventure...

Basicly it would mean an extra layer to the game:
Instead of just being all citizens/mercaneries in adition we can pursue a meaningfull career for the faction army or a real dedicated career choice... (but you would have to show your colours)
People who prefer to stay citizens/independant can always choose to do so and 'work' / play in the regular society.

 

[Surly_Badger]

The universe is a huge place. In the course of a man's life he may go by many names and many allegiances. Some men's allegiances are nimble and shift depending on the flow of gold.

I have quite a different reputation with the Feds than I have with The Empire.

 

[Darque]

Allied is a poor choice of term in retrospect. It should be "Respected" perhaps. Allied does give a war-like connotation. Not the end of the world though.

 

[BishopC]

...nvm

Choosing colours sounds good. Don't know how to work it into the game now, that would have been a design decision that had to have been made beforehand.

 

[DrDeathO5]

The universe is a huge place. In the course of a man's life he may go by many names and many allegiances. Some men's allegiances are nimble and shift depending on the flow of gold.

I have quite a different reputation with the Feds than I have with The Empire.

Sure, but if you worked for the Us Navy you wouldn't be able to work for the Russians easily....
If you wanna stay independant and follow the path of money the choice would be available.

f.e. why do we have Nava progression missions? Only to buy a certain ship? Feels like to me like something is missing here. I can advance in their rank but yet it stays without concequences and the text in the mission about permits are hollow words.

By showing colours you can:

-allow players to play in 1 open world because you can create:
-heavily policed safe heavens (core of the ruling faction space)
-have dedicated battlegrounds (edge of ruling faction space)
-have a meaningfull PVP combat for those who seek it (players must sign up as a role in the military)
-better role-play opportunities
-if community goals arise you would see who is the bad guy
-systems with no faction should become hideouts for pirates that have their own pirate bases made from stuff they steal/find... i.o.w. a proper outlaw existence

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One can dream.... I dream about a huge conflict between the Federation and the Empire, epic battles where multiple capital ships are engaged in a firefight, smaller vessels whizzing past, a station in the background. Reinforcements dropping in.
You have to pick a side or flee.
A war that brings both sides to the brink of collapse. Then, after month of conflict, weakening the human factions, the Red Thargoids attack, quickly steam rolling through first the Empire, laying siege on Achenar and despite brave but ultimately futile resistance, destroying the Empire homeworld. The retreating empire forces under the new Emperor sign the second Tau Ceti agreement with the once hated Federation and together form the INRA Defense Force, who fail to stop the invading army until the human and Thargoid fleets face each other for a last standoff in Sol, where in the final moments of a hopeless battle the (secret and until then unknown) Alliance Combine Fleet (consisting of new Alliance ships and Green Thargoid ships) sways the battle...

Edit: Frack, got carried away again. Well, one can dream. Mods, if you want to move this to the fiction forum, please do.

haha... this

My basic point is that the curent game doesn't allow the people to dream or immerse themselves because everything feels random...
Sure it is a design choice but one that has many negative side-effects already exposed.
The ability to show colours wouldn't need a complete overhaul but would provide meaning to the black hollow universe FD has created and would solve many discussions.
It would solve as a solution for the lack of story or better said provide a good background to make your own story/role-playing fantasy.

 

[iain666]

Allied to both, aye. Why not?

Highly ranked in both their millitaries? That's a bit less plausible.

 

[clivewil]

i'm happy with the mechanic the way it is; i can travel the whole galaxy as a friend of the major factions while still having hostile sub-factions to spice things up on a local level.

i'd hate to have 2/3 of the galaxy unavailable to me just because i was aligned with one party

 

[Drakkir]

If it were solely combat related, picking a side makes more sense but there's no open war. All the combat locations are civil war type happenings, inside of their respective demesnes. But the 3 factions are all at peace so makes sense you can work your way up each faction's tree's. Now if war breaks out, I'd think you'd be forced to pick a side, thus being enemy to the other's but /shrug even that though, if you were solely a trader type non-combatant, could be 'worked around' I'd think.

 

[DrDeathO5]

...nvm

Choosing colours sounds good. Don't know how to work it into the game now, that would have been a design decision that had to have been made beforehand.

We basicly have the military missions progression in place.... which feel they could need an extra layer. Showing colours would be a perfect way to enhance these missions.
I don't think it is that much work in comparison to other softwere projects.
All the key ingredients are there and you would basicly offer the choice to people if they wanna stay green (independant) / blue (fed) etc...
If you go up in imperial ranking you loose your fed ranking ... etc..
btw. Allience could use a different colour then orange (was a confusing colour from the beginning)

Just a basic implementation of colours and adjusting appropriate wanted tags/amounts would mean a lot:
if people wanna trade in peace... stay green and attacking 'green' unwanted people is equal to a very high crime.

Slowly the rest can be implemented like more advanced missions.

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i'm happy with the mechanic the way it is; i can travel the whole galaxy as a friend of the major factions while still having hostile sub-factions to spice things up on a local level.

i'd hate to have 2/3 of the galaxy unavailable to me just because i was aligned with one party

For you nothing would change as you can choose to stay independant. You can still spice things up on a local level the way things work now.
Space would stay as big for you as it is now.

The best part is that it would allow people the choice if they want PVP action or not while at the same time all playing in open.
People who pick a side should do it because they love PVP and they can kill eachother.
Pirates would have to be dedicated pirates at local level the way they are now... but if they kill a cmdr it should be harder to get rid of the wanted status but this means they need a safe heaven like an asteroid base etc.. in anarchy systems.

If you choose to commit however to one side it means you show colours and support the bigger cause of the faction: expand your influence be it by conquer, research, exploration
Showing your colours would mean that you are available for PVP action (because you signed up in the army and in case of war you are a target).

 

[Moritasgus]

I think we can all agree the factions need fleshing out however what we have now gives players choice, locking players into sides like WoW or other MMOs isn't the way to go.

The pilots federation is kinda the equivalent of the Jedi Order, cutting ties with our pasts and helping whoever needs us. Now obviously there are more levels to this and not everybody is good but i think that's the general idea.
We are also supposed to be the best of the best which means that all factions would want us to work for them so that fits.

If you want to align yourself with one faction and upset the rest then go attack some of their NPC ships and fail a lot of their missions, you will soon become hostile to that major faction and get exactly what you want. Forcing players into a hostile state for picking sides is in my mind a poor choice.

As for all players being orange? Well like it or not in the fiction sense we are on the same side that of the pilots federation signified by a hollow marker. Just because you and another player are both allied to the Empire doesn't mean he wont attack you and i'm not sure i agree with faction penalties if he does.

 

[DrDeathO5]

I think we can all agree the factions need fleshing out however what we have now gives players choice, locking players into sides like WoW or other MMOs isn't the way to go.

The pilots federation is kinda the equivalent of the Jedi Order, cutting ties with our pasts and helping whoever needs us. Now obviously there are more levels to this and not everybody is good but i think that's the general idea.
We are also supposed to be the best of the best which means that all factions would want us to work for them so that fits.

If you want to align yourself with one faction and upset the rest then go attack some of their NPC ships and fail a lot of their missions, you will soon become hostile to that major faction and get exactly what you want. Forcing players into a hostile state for picking sides is in my mind a poor choice.

As for all players being orange? Well like it or not in the fiction sense we are on the same side that of the pilots federation signified by a hollow marker. Just because you and another player are both allied to the Empire doesn't mean he wont attack you and i'm not sure i agree with faction penalties if he does.

Nobody is forcing players... it would be an extra option and give a PVP or group vs group play a meaning...
Like i said you may think it would be a poor choice but apparently it works pretty well in other games and judging by the amount of complaints on the forum we badly need solutions fast.
Sure we have choice now but concequence is lacking.... everyone can change their status in the game pretty fast if they pay a small fee... WANTED doesn't mean a thing at the moment.
BTW. to become hostile i would need to indeed first accept missions and then fail them etc... Not sure if serious but this isn't really adding any immersion factor. Besides what if we are acting as a group?
Should we all individually accept missions to become hostile? Seems quite a strange thing to do... and not very realistic at all.
Like i also said my proposal is to provide a solution for PVP fans that is not in any way influencing multiplayer fans who don't like being attacked for no reason.

This galaxy is big enough to support differnt kind of playstyles in multiplayer mode... PVP/PVE/SOLO can all happen in the same multiplayer environment.
Players who like peacefull multiplayer could play it 'their way' and PVP-types could play it 'their way' in the same world shared by all.

At this moment various kind of groups/clans are formed that basicly do the stuff i am proposing... the only problem is that lot's of players don't understand it when they get attacked.
A lot of groups base their main choice around: empire vs fed etc... It already exists except it is not visible in the game for other players....
Showing colours would provide an extra framework were those groups can play according to some basic rules... like don't attack civilian/independent CMDR's because they are under protection of the pilot federation.
see f.e. CMDR Athera and the 'Anarchy' group who is attacking Yembo.